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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 23, 2012 16:40:27 GMT -5
Thus we continue the drama of Jon "Bones" Jones being the first champion to reject a fight and the decision made to cancel UFC 151 in response.
And yes, Sonnen is now declaring himself champion via forfeit.
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Post by alabastergrim on Aug 23, 2012 16:45:13 GMT -5
If Sonnen doesn't deserve the fight so Jones isn't to blame etc etc etc blah blah blah then how come Jones just doesn't take the fight, make short work of Sonnen, prove the point and allow the other fighters on the card to get a payday? Jones should be in shape since he was going to have a fight anyway?
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Aug 23, 2012 16:47:09 GMT -5
If Sonnen doesn't deserve the fight so Jones isn't to blame etc etc etc blah blah blah then how come Jones just doesn't take the fight, make short work of Sonnen, prove the point and allow the other fighters on the card to get a payday? Jones should be in shape since he was going to have a fight anyway? But he's also been preparing for the past few months for Dan Henderson, who is a radically different fighter from Sonnen. Having to adjust his entire fight plan in 8 days is hardly fair to him. Plus, again, who the f*** has Sonnen beat?
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Post by joebob27 on Aug 23, 2012 16:48:39 GMT -5
MMA is a legitimate carny sport. He should have taken the match, now it will be held against him. That's how it works, if people don't like that they need to take a closer look at how UFC operates. This is pretty similiar to spurning Vince, ultimately not a very smart decision.
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 23, 2012 17:04:01 GMT -5
Honestly, to strawman this a bit: Try to get Mayweather to face a random scrub dropping down from light heavyweight. See how that goes.
Bones has dominated his division. Sonnen has ran his mouth and been embarrassed.
How do those two things = PPV Main Event?
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Lancers
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Post by Lancers on Aug 23, 2012 17:04:17 GMT -5
It's not like Jones isn't gonna fight at all. He's fighting Machida, the real number one contender, on September 22nd. It sucks for Jones, though, because all the scrutiny is on him for not taking the Sonnen fight which led to the event's cancellation. Injuries are a part of the game, but there's no excuse for having such an underwhelming undercard to begin with.
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543Y2J
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Post by 543Y2J on Aug 23, 2012 17:09:06 GMT -5
It's not like Jones isn't gonna fight at all. He's fighting Machida, the real number one contender, on September 22nd. It sucks for Jones, though, because all the scrutiny is on him for not taking the Sonnen fight which led to the event's cancellation. Injuries are a part of the game, but there's no excuse for having such an underwhelming undercard to begin with. I feel way worse for Hendo then I do for Jones. That might have been his last shot to ever get a UFC belt up in smoke. Jones is the champion and he should be there defending his title, taking fights and having responsibility for how the rest of a card relies on him when he is fighting now that he is the main event.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Aug 23, 2012 17:09:20 GMT -5
Personally, I'm on Jones side here.
1) Sonnen is 2-2 in his last four fights, with only one decisive win over Brian Stann. Honestly, he probably shouldn't even have beaten Bisping but that's neither here nor there. He doesn't deserve a title shot, especially considering he's moving UP a weight class. He needs to beat someone before he gets a shot. Running your mouth doesn't earn you a title shot.
2) The UFC cancelled the card because of their own planning issues. You should not rely on selling an entire card on a single fight. Regardless of Jones' decision, that blame falls directly on the UFC's shoulders.
3) Jones is well within his right to turn down a fight on such short notice. This isn't for a number one contender's spot or an extra pay day; this is for the title. You can also throw in the fact that Jones said earlier this month he wouldn't fight Sonnen because Sonnen didn't deserve a title shot right now. Not to mention that Sonnen is someone who gets TRT treatment, which Jones just spoke his disapproval of.
4) I can even understand Jones' reluctance on fighting Machida again. Jones beat him handily and got a poor pay day for it. He hasn't said he won't fight Machida, but that he doesn't agree that its the best way to make money. Perfectly legit complaint to me; not much different than Austin not wanting to job to Lesnar on free TV. There's more money to be made elsewhere. Let Jones fight someone else in the meantime or even just wait for a bit, while Machida or whoever builds themselves us to look like a legit threat. A Jones/Dragon rematch will be hard to sell since Jones choked him out, standing up no less, just 8 months ago.
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Lancers
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Post by Lancers on Aug 23, 2012 17:13:43 GMT -5
It's not like Jones isn't gonna fight at all. He's fighting Machida, the real number one contender, on September 22nd. It sucks for Jones, though, because all the scrutiny is on him for not taking the Sonnen fight which led to the event's cancellation. Injuries are a part of the game, but there's no excuse for having such an underwhelming undercard to begin with. I feel way worse for Hendo then I do for Jones. That might have been his last shot to ever get a UFC belt up in smoke. Jones is the champion and he should be there defending his title, taking fights and having responsibility for how the rest of a card relies on him when he is fighting now that he is the main event. I'm disappointed in Bones. He should've taken the fight. As for cancelling it, I'm a firm believer this is a byproduct of having 32 events in 52 weeks. Cards are being watered down to the point where PPVs look weaker than FOX, FX and even Fuel events. 149 in Calgary springs to mind. This is where the UFC has to make a conscious decision. Take away some of these free cards to bolster the PPVs. Bring over Strikeforce to help piece together the undercards. They have to do something, but injuries aren't gonna just stop happening.
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Aug 23, 2012 17:20:39 GMT -5
Why? Why should he have taken the fight against a challenger going up a weight class that hasn't beaten anybody at LHW, on 8 days notice? From his perspective, it's almost suicidal. He's been preparing to take on Hendo for how long now? And Sonnen is not Hendo. It would have been stupid to risk his belt against an opponent he wasn't prepped for and chanced Sonnen fluking out because of it.
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Lancers
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Post by Lancers on Aug 23, 2012 17:25:31 GMT -5
Why? Why should he have taken the fight against a challenger going up a weight class that hasn't beaten anybody at LHW, on 8 days notice? From his perspective, it's almost suicidal. He's been preparing to take on Hendo for how long now? And Sonnen is not Hendo. It would have been stupid to risk his belt against an opponent he wasn't prepped for and chanced Sonnen fluking out because of it. It's a two-way street. Sonnen had absolutely zero training for Jones as well. And Jones may be one guy you would need a legit gameplan for. He had about as much of a chance beating Jones as I have getting sex from Kate Upton. As for Sonnen getting the shot, well, I would agree that he's not worthy. Probably 2 fights away from a real title shot, but this was an emergency situation for the company. I don't know who else was offered the fight, but I certainly hope there were 3 or 4 other guys that got a phone call before Chael. Sonnen certainly is in a win-win predicament either way. Fight happens....likely loses, gets a big payday and looks better for taking the fight. Fight doesn't happen....gets to trash talk Jones all over Sportscenter and keep his name out there even though he should have disappeared after the Spider loss. And I'll level with you too. I kinda want to see Jones beat the crap out of Sonnen so as a fan I would have loved this fight. EDIT: I should note that when I say disappointed, I don't mean I think Jones is a coward or that he's responsible for the card being cancelled. The UFC is responsible for putting together these cards and relying on just one fighter is high risk and this is what happens when you play with fire like that.
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543Y2J
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Post by 543Y2J on Aug 23, 2012 17:32:22 GMT -5
Why? Why should he have taken the fight against a challenger going up a weight class that hasn't beaten anybody at LHW, on 8 days notice? From his perspective, it's almost suicidal. He's been preparing to take on Hendo for how long now? And Sonnen is not Hendo. It would have been stupid to risk his belt against an opponent he wasn't prepped for and chanced Sonnen fluking out because of it. I think Sonnen would still have been coming in with a disadvantage here, not Jones. Jones should be healthy, Sonnen hasn't been training currently(?) or nowhere near to the extent Jones has. Plus Sonnen into a different weight class, if anything this would have been an easier fight for Jones than a healthy Hendo and the lethal right hand. He could have taken Sonnen out, Sonnen would have shut up about him and all would be fine instead of Sonnen having more ammunition now against Jones. Hell even if Sonnen did somehow win Jones would have an excuse, and a huge buyrate for the rematch due to all the hype they would have. And how Jones wasn't prepared for that "specific" fighter (even though he should be in shape and ready to go as a champion anyway). Either way Jones doesn't come out looking as bad as he does right now
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Post by corndog on Aug 23, 2012 17:33:14 GMT -5
Why? Why should he have taken the fight against a challenger going up a weight class that hasn't beaten anybody at LHW, on 8 days notice? From his perspective, it's almost suicidal. He's been preparing to take on Hendo for how long now? And Sonnen is not Hendo. It would have been stupid to risk his belt against an opponent he wasn't prepped for and chanced Sonnen fluking out because of it. I agree, Sonnen and Hendo are two completely different fighters and Sonnen has done NOTHING to deserve a LHW title shot. Nonetheless, as you said, Sonnen could somehow have pulled a fluke win out, as he nearly did over Silva in their first fight, which was on short notice. I think moving the fight forward ot Machida/Jones is the right thing to do. I am not clear on all of the details, UFC released this would be the change. But what is this story about Jones not wanting the fight? And does this even matter?
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Post by mysterydriver on Aug 23, 2012 17:33:28 GMT -5
Sonnen was obviously game because he knows his flame is just about out. Any good will from fluking past Bisping was squandered after months of trash talk and legal steroids still led to a decisive loss.
He then begins ranting like a idiot trying to tell a lie enough times that people will believe it (He kneed me in the head! In the head!). Then he begins trash talking others, like Jones, because it's all he really has in the situation of big-league fights.
Henderson gets hurts. Dana calls person after person who all reject the fight (So I guess it's there fault to) and finally gets down the line to the everyone's favorite Money Launderer who instantly takes it.
Sonnen then, again, moves into trashtalk mode, offering his purse to Jones (As if he wouldn't be making mint off sponsorships, PPV Buy cuts, and whatever Bonus Dana shoves his way) and regaled as a "real man" for "stepping up" when all he was doing was cashing in for a fight that's in no possible way interesting.
The man is an absolute joke. The reaction people had when Vera was put into a position to win a title shot is the same reaction they should have for Sonnen being offered a shot for nothing more than changing divisions.
Jones will face the real #1 contender next month, so it's not like he's walking away from fighting. He's walking away from an embarrassment of a replacement who didn't deserve to be there.
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Lancers
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Post by Lancers on Aug 23, 2012 17:50:29 GMT -5
Jones will face the real #1 contender next month, so it's not like he's walking away from fighting. He's walking away from an embarrassment of a replacement who didn't deserve to be there. I can't argue with this. Seeing Sonnen lose to Jones would appease me for selfish reasons, but Sonnen wasn't worthy of a title fight. And Jones will defend the belt against a better fighter and a more dangerous opponent who I still think may be the only guy who has a shot at beating Bones at 205. All I'm saying is that from a personal perspective, Jones should've fought next weekend. He's had a really lousy year that's his own fault (DUI). He could've just taken the fight, make quick work of Sonnen and take on Machida early 2013. And now that he turns the fight down, the whole card is cancelled and he's having his own boss (Dana White) throw him under the bus, which IMO may go down as one of Dana's WORST moments. People are gonna hold Jones responsible for this card to cease to exist. And while I don't believe it's his fault for such a crappy undercard, he could've just done good for the fans who paid their hard earned money to see him fight.
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Post by memphis25 on Aug 23, 2012 17:55:47 GMT -5
Weak move by Jones, he makes tons of money while the guys on his under-cards don't he should have took the fight with Sonnen who he would beat with little effort. Now all these other guys have to wait and find a home on various other cards which already have set Cards.
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Lancers
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Post by Lancers on Aug 23, 2012 18:00:31 GMT -5
Weak move by Jones, he makes tons of money while the guys on his under-cards don't he should have took the fight with Sonnen who he would beat with little effort. Now all these other guys have to wait and find a home on various other cards which already have set Cards. And they all will...eventually. And that's what sucks more than anything else. Those guys on the undercard get paid very little and now they're gonna have to wait an undetermined amount of time for another fight.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Aug 23, 2012 18:22:51 GMT -5
Weak move by Jones, he makes tons of money while the guys on his under-cards don't he should have took the fight with Sonnen who he would beat with little effort. Now all these other guys have to wait and find a home on various other cards which already have set Cards. And they all will...eventually. And that's what sucks more than anything else. Those guys on the undercard get paid very little and now they're gonna have to wait an undetermined amount of time for another fight. And that isn't Jones fault. Just because his fight gets called off, shouldn't mean that the entire card should collapse. They want to blame someone for the loss of a pay day, then blame Joe Silva. Regardless of whether he can walk through Sonnen or not, that's not his problem or his responsibility. Like many have said, this is both a sport and a business. Jones should take care of himself and the others should take care of themselves.
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Post by Jazzman on Aug 23, 2012 18:25:37 GMT -5
Sonnen was obviously game because he knows his flame is just about out. Any good will from fluking past Bisping was squandered after months of trash talk and legal steroids still led to a decisive loss. He then begins ranting like a idiot trying to tell a lie enough times that people will believe it (He kneed me in the head! In the head!). Then he begins trash talking others, like Jones, because it's all he really has in the situation of big-league fights. Henderson gets hurts. Dana calls person after person who all reject the fight (So I guess it's there fault to) and finally gets down the line to the everyone's favorite Money Launderer who instantly takes it. Sonnen then, again, moves into trashtalk mode, offering his purse to Jones (As if he wouldn't be making mint off sponsorships, PPV Buy cuts, and whatever Bonus Dana shoves his way) and regaled as a "real man" for "stepping up" when all he was doing was cashing in for a fight that's in no possible way interesting. The man is an absolute joke. The reaction people had when Vera was put into a position to win a title shot is the same reaction they should have for Sonnen being offered a shot for nothing more than changing divisions. Jones will face the real #1 contender next month, so it's not like he's walking away from fighting. He's walking away from an embarrassment of a replacement who didn't deserve to be there. QFT, seriously. The people who are angry about Jones "ducking" Sonnen are one of two breeds of people. A Sonnen Sheep who would believe everything he says as gospel and that he can do no wrong or they are the TAPOUT fan who knows that they would take any fight on any notice because it meant they were tough to do it. I have absolutely no problem with Bones not taking this fight. Do I feel kinda bad for the guys on the undercard, sure I do as they rely more on purse that a guy like Jones, but they will all get their money along the way. Also, if that fight ever happens I want Bones to break Sonnen's face with an elbow so that I never have to hear that overrated two bit realtor with the golden tongue and glass chin ever again.
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Post by Killah Ray on Aug 23, 2012 18:37:29 GMT -5
But now we're getting Jones vs Machida II which is a helluva better fight....why the f*** would people waste money to see Sonnen act like a bitch again and get easily beaten yet again?
I think after the last Silva fight the general public is done with his WWE lite ways....
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