Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 30, 2007 13:31:08 GMT -5
Depends if you count drugged up idiot as being a cool human being? First..I've you've read any of his interviews you'll see the man is far from an "idiot." As for the drugs..I choose to live a clean lifestyle...but what another person puts in their body is none of my business unless it directly effects me. Only a self righteous judgmental prick would think otherwise. Well, again, that comes down to what you consider idiotic. I consider the promotion of illegal substances proven to warp developing minds to be idiotic, if you don't, that's your choice, it is not my place to tell you otherwise and nor do i wish to. My OP was not intended to take anything away from the thread OP's meeting of RVD, im glad he had a good time, i simply wished to point out that "cool human being" and drug taker don't go together in my humble opinion. And while, indeed, it is none of my busy what people do or dont put in their bodies, i have to believe that only selfish and self-centred people would care about what someone does if it only effects them
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biafra
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Post by biafra on Dec 30, 2007 13:47:35 GMT -5
First..I've you've read any of his interviews you'll see the man is far from an "idiot." As for the drugs..I choose to live a clean lifestyle...but what another person puts in their body is none of my business unless it directly effects me. Only a self righteous judgmental prick would think otherwise. Well, again, that comes down to what you consider idiotic. I consider the promotion of illegal substances proven to warp developing minds to be idiotic, if you don't, that's your choice, it is not my place to tell you otherwise and nor do i wish to. My OP was not intended to take anything away from the thread OP's meeting of RVD, im glad he had a good time, i simply wished to point out that "cool human being" and drug taker don't go together in my humble opinion. And while, indeed, it is none of my busy what people do or dont put in their bodies, i have to believe that only selfish and self-centred people would care about what someone does if it only effects them No..not self centered at all. If someone is hurting themselves I'd want them to stop..but I respect their freedoms enough to not make them or look down on them for a personal choice. It's one thing to want someone to make a better choice but to insult them or look down on them for making a different one than you is indeed prickish. Plus..I;ve known lots of people who use marijuana on a recreational basis with no or very little ill effects. I know people who use hard drugs (or tobacco or alcohol) and have gotten very sick or f***ed their lives up. Marijuana isn't something I want in my body..but a person putting that in their body isn't exactly shooting heroin either.
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default
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Post by default on Dec 30, 2007 13:53:39 GMT -5
Depends if you count drugged up idiot as being a cool human being? So based on that logic, CM Punk is the only professional wrestler who is worthy of being called a "cool human being"? Because I could be wrong (Lord knows it's happened before) but I'm pretty sure 95-99% of all pro wrestlers have - or in some cases, still do - partaken in some sort of recreational drug, or abuse a prescription drug. (and I include alcohol as a "recreational drug.") You heard the man, folks. Let's put every title on CM Punk, shut down WWE, and call it a day. Actually, according to JR and Lawler himself, The King has never messed with drugs or alcohol. The King's addictions include Coca-Cola and also may or may not include underage women.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 30, 2007 14:04:21 GMT -5
Well, again, that comes down to what you consider idiotic. I consider the promotion of illegal substances proven to warp developing minds to be idiotic, if you don't, that's your choice, it is not my place to tell you otherwise and nor do i wish to. My OP was not intended to take anything away from the thread OP's meeting of RVD, im glad he had a good time, i simply wished to point out that "cool human being" and drug taker don't go together in my humble opinion. And while, indeed, it is none of my busy what people do or dont put in their bodies, i have to believe that only selfish and self-centred people would care about what someone does if it only effects them No..not self centered at all. If someone is hurting themselves I'd want them to stop..but I respect their freedoms enough to not make them or look down on them for a personal choice. It's one thing to want someone to make a better choice but to insult them or look down on them for making a different one than you is indeed prickish. Plus..I;ve known lots of people who use marijuana on a recreational basis with no or very little ill effects. I know people who use hard drugs (or tobacco or alcohol) and have gotten very sick or smurfed their lives up. Marijuana isn't something I want in my body..but a person putting that in their body isn't exactly shooting heroin either. No, it isn't Heroin (this is going to sound prickish, it's really not, im just saying because i recently learnt it, but Heroin is a brand name and thus a proper noun and thus should have a capital letter), it's a so called soft drug. Im glad you know people who have used marijuana on a recreational basis and had it have little effect on their health or personality. I have not found that the case in my doings with people who have begun to use it. Although i think personal choice is a wonderful thing, i cannot and will not endorse it if the personal choice is do something illegal and something that potentially can endanger your health and or your personality. In the case of RVD i am especially passionate because of the fact that he is vocal in his support for the use of the drug while he has the ears of children and teenagers the world over. Now of course i know that these children would hear about drugs anyway and RVD isnt personally responsible but he isnt helping either.
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biafra
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Post by biafra on Dec 30, 2007 14:07:28 GMT -5
No..not self centered at all. If someone is hurting themselves I'd want them to stop..but I respect their freedoms enough to not make them or look down on them for a personal choice. It's one thing to want someone to make a better choice but to insult them or look down on them for making a different one than you is indeed prickish. Plus..I;ve known lots of people who use marijuana on a recreational basis with no or very little ill effects. I know people who use hard drugs (or tobacco or alcohol) and have gotten very sick or smurfed their lives up. Marijuana isn't something I want in my body..but a person putting that in their body isn't exactly shooting heroin either. No, it isn't Heroin (this is going to sound prickish, it's really not, im just saying because i recently learnt it, but Heroin is a brand name and thus a proper noun and thus should have a capital letter), it's a so called soft drug. Im glad you know people who have used marijuana on a recreational basis and had it have little effect on their health or personality. I have not found that the case in my doings with people who have begun to use it. Although i think personal choice is a wonderful thing, i cannot and will not endorse it if the personal choice is do something illegal and something that potentially can endanger your health and or your personality. in the case of RVD i am especially passionate because of the fact that he is vocal in his support for the use of the drug because he has the ears of children and teenagers the world over. Now of course i know that these children would hear about drugs anyway and RVD isnt personally responsible but he isnt helping either. I'm totally cool with you not advocating it..hell like I said I'm straightedge. We just seem to judge those who make different decisions in a different way. RVD has always made it clear that underage people and even a lot of adults shouldnt mess with the stuff. It's a personal decision..one I;d make different but it doesnt effect how I judge the man.
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Post by Jon The Joker on Dec 30, 2007 14:08:46 GMT -5
Should probably move the arguing with legion to the thread he made about RVD, and let this guys thread about meeting RVD be about ...meeting RVD. Do what....wait this is what this thread is about?
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Post by Nick Loves Dr. Pepper on Dec 30, 2007 14:11:03 GMT -5
Should probably move the arguing with legion to the thread he made about RVD, and let this guys thread about meeting RVD be about ...meeting RVD. Do what....wait this is what this thread is about? There was a poll deleted yesterday about whether a weed smoker like RVD should come back and it got a little tense.
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"Hollywood" Cactus Matt
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Post by "Hollywood" Cactus Matt on Dec 30, 2007 14:13:21 GMT -5
So based on that logic, CM Punk is the only professional wrestler who is worthy of being called a "cool human being"? Because I could be wrong (Lord knows it's happened before) but I'm pretty sure 95-99% of all pro wrestlers have - or in some cases, still do - partaken in some sort of recreational drug, or abuse a prescription drug. (and I include alcohol as a "recreational drug.") You heard the man, folks. Let's put every title on CM Punk, shut down WWE, and call it a day. Actually, according to JR and Lawler himself, The King has never messed with drugs or alcohol. The King's addictions include Coca-Cola and also may or may not include underage women. Right on. I stand sit corrected. I stick by my high estimate, though, on everyone else. Kudos to Lawler for staying on the straight-and-narrow, by the way.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 30, 2007 14:14:57 GMT -5
Yeah, i made said poll, and im the first to admit i was doing it because i was bored and fancied being a bit reactionary, but it did illicit some strong responses and then got deleted.
As such, i've justified my position as best as possible in here without being reactionary and found the level of debate from some people to be very good.
Just another reason why i like this place.
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Post by Jon The Joker on Dec 30, 2007 14:20:52 GMT -5
Because for a moment I thought this was a "Drugs in the WWE" thread, which may last for eternity.
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Dec 30, 2007 16:14:38 GMT -5
Did anyone here give Triple H crap about appearing in a Miller Lite commercial? After all, he is a role model and beer is an addicting psychoactive substance.
Is beer's legality his out? Since when are morals based on legality? Slavery was legal in this country at one time. Did that make it right then? Or at least acceptable? Or are actions inherently moral or immoral regardless of the legal status of them?
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Post by M. Dirrty on Dec 30, 2007 16:52:15 GMT -5
I see that far less harmful than drowning my sorrows in alcohol.
and in the words of Dave Chappelle "hey, hey , hey... smoke weed everyday"
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Post by franchisedavis on Dec 30, 2007 17:23:51 GMT -5
I see that far less harmful than drowning my sorrows in alcohol. and in the words of Dave Chappelle "hey, hey , hey... smoke weed everyday" That was Dr. Dre that said that before Chapelle
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 30, 2007 17:27:22 GMT -5
Did anyone here give Triple H crap about appearing in a Miller Lite commercial? After all, he is a role model and beer is an addicting psychoactive substance. Is beer's legality his out? Since when are morals based on legality? Slavery was legal in this country at one time. Did that make it right then? Or at least acceptable? Or are actions inherently moral or immoral regardless of the legal status of them? I wouldnt have seen the Miller adverts being in the UK, so i can't really comment, but had i seen them then yes, the legality of beer would have been an out along with whatever American TV has for times of when you can show alcohol adverts. As for your point of historical changes, you prove my point inadvertantly. Slavery was legal, people saw it was bad, they made it illegal. At one point much harder drugs than Marijuana were legal, then science and society proved how bad they were for you, and they were made illegal.
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nate5054
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Post by nate5054 on Dec 30, 2007 17:39:23 GMT -5
[quote author=legion board=WWE thread=1198970342
But Triple H is a role model. How can a role model advertise for beer? Children may drink beer. And get drunk. And who cares if it's legal or not. Since when does legality give you a free pass on morality? Is gambling immoral if I play an illegal poker game in my living room instead of flying to Las Vegas and playing there?
Slavery wasn't just made legal. Wars were fought to make it legal. But slavery would still be just as immoral if it was made legal. Is slavery in the Sudan more moral because the governmen there has tolerated it and made it defacto legal against people they don't like?
Not to mention slavery was viewed as completely immoral long before it was made illegal in most countries. Most people can see what is moral and immoral without the government telling them what to do.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 30, 2007 17:59:50 GMT -5
[quote author=legion board=WWE thread=1198970342 But Triple H is a role model. How can a role model advertise for beer? Children may drink beer. And get drunk. And who cares if it's legal or not. Since when does legality give you a free pass on morality? Is gambling immoral if I play an illegal poker game in my living room instead of flying to Las Vegas and playing there? Slavery wasn't just made legal. Wars were fought to make it legal. But slavery would still be just as immoral if it was made legal. Is slavery in the Sudan more moral because the governmen there has tolerated it and made it defacto legal against people they don't like? Not to mention slavery was viewed as completely immoral long before it was made illegal in most countries. Most people can see what is moral and immoral without the government telling them what to do. Ok, but surely the HHH beer adverts are on after a certain point in the evening? Thus, if the children are watching, would not they be watching with their parents who could point out that beer shouldnt be drunk? Are there not warnings along with the beer adverts? And is HHH actually then posting on the internet about alcohol, getting caught driving under the influence ot bringing himself into disrepute while champion because of his actions like RVD? No, i dont believe he is. Where is the morality in that? Wars were fought in America to stop slavery yes, and campaigns else where and so on. Slavery was seen as wrong long before it was illegal, people saw that, the government eventually followed suit. Im not sure i get your point on the morality of slavery in the Sudan. Of course it isnt right, the society in the Sudan dont see this, they should. Of course most people can see what it moral without a government telling them what to do, but can children? Obviously then we get into the realm of who should tell the children, but as i've said, if RVD is seen as a promoter of an illegal activity, then he isnt helping to stamp out a potentially damaging activity.
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Post by dh03grad on Dec 30, 2007 18:17:04 GMT -5
Everyone who meets him has the same story...which is a good thing. It's always nice to see a person whose talents I admire actually be a cool human being as well. Depends if you count drugged up idiot as being a cool human being? The whole WWE roster (save a couple) was just drinking beer in the ring live on Raw a few weeks ago.
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Post by dh03grad on Dec 30, 2007 18:27:14 GMT -5
[quote author=legion board=WWE thread=1198970342 But Triple H is a role model. How can a role model advertise for beer? Children may drink beer. And get drunk. And who cares if it's legal or not. Since when does legality give you a free pass on morality? Is gambling immoral if I play an illegal poker game in my living room instead of flying to Las Vegas and playing there? Slavery wasn't just made legal. Wars were fought to make it legal. But slavery would still be just as immoral if it was made legal. Is slavery in the Sudan more moral because the governmen there has tolerated it and made it defacto legal against people they don't like? Not to mention slavery was viewed as completely immoral long before it was made illegal in most countries. Most people can see what is moral and immoral without the government telling them what to do. Ok, but surely the HHH beer adverts are on after a certain point in the evening? Thus, if the children are watching, would not they be watching with their parents who could point out that beer shouldnt be drunk? Are there not warnings along with the beer adverts? And is HHH actually then posting on the internet about alcohol, getting caught driving under the influence ot bringing himself into disrepute while champion because of his actions like RVD? No, i dont believe he is. Where is the morality in that? Wars were fought in America to stop slavery yes, and campaigns else where and so on. Slavery was seen as wrong long before it was illegal, people saw that, the government eventually followed suit. Im not sure i get your point on the morality of slavery in the Sudan. Of course it isnt right, the society in the Sudan dont see this, they should. Of course most people can see what it moral without a government telling them what to do, but can children? Obviously then we get into the realm of who should tell the children, but as i've said, if RVD is seen as a promoter of an illegal activity, then he isnt helping to stamp out a potentially damaging activity. The current WWE and World champions were busted on illegal drugs twice this year, in a way, the WWE as a whole is promoting the fruits of taking steroids are they not? Since they are pushing Edge and Randy as their champions.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Dec 30, 2007 18:32:19 GMT -5
No, because not everyone is going to know about that. They are not promoting themselves as drug takers or claiming to be all for it in interviews and web blogs. Plus, even if the children/teenagers did log on to forums or news sites, Edge was done for steroids, which a slated all over news and forums (and rightly so), while Orton was also slated for it. RVD seems to get away with it because he's more popular.
As for them all drinking in the ring, see previous comments on the legality of beer vs the illegality of drugs.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Dec 30, 2007 18:37:45 GMT -5
If RVD were to smoke marijuana in a country where it's legalized, would he be an ok role model? I don't understand some of the circular arguments anymore. RVD used to have his 5 star comic books shop near me... and I never went. I kinda took it for granted that it was here. And now that it's gone, I doubt I'll ever have a chance to meet him.
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