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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 28, 2007 13:51:58 GMT -5
And the big "X-Division hate you too" promo from Shelley & Sabin? The one that had most of the X-Division kick Team 3D's ass? That was free, you know. I was referring to the one show Lance was discussing. In that one show, 3-D destroyed MCMG both verbally and physically. It's usually a good idea to leave some sort of possibility that the victims MIGHT have have a chance. This particular show, excluding others, didn't do that. That was Lance's point. And I was merely agreeing. And they can't respond the next week? They WERE badly attacked, so you don't just hop up and cut a promo after that. Sorry if they want to keep some kind of logic. And why would Team 3D say anything nice to them? If I hate someone and want to destroy them and their buddies, I'm not gonna say anything nice about them. Why would I?
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Dragonfly
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...is no Barry Windham.
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Post by Dragonfly on Dec 28, 2007 13:58:03 GMT -5
Going back to the script for a moment, I find it hilarious how people are making all of these judgments on a show that hasn't even aired yet.[/b] One cannot judge the quality of an established show, especially a wrestling show, on the script alone.
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Post by thestinger on Dec 28, 2007 14:12:30 GMT -5
You make a good poin. It appears TNA is overscripted to look at the length of the script.
However, we don't know how much the finished product will differ. Perhaps the wrestlers get scripts and think of them as guidelines and are still allowed to ad lib lines?
I don't know. If the final product is word for word, exactly as the script, that isn't good.
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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 28, 2007 14:15:58 GMT -5
BTW, let me mention that in the script, even thought it's 23 pages, a lot of the stuff is blank. Hell, one page just has "Commercial Break" on it and nothing else(Page 14 for those who have it), and I think there's more.
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hollywood
King Koopa
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Post by hollywood on Dec 28, 2007 14:32:27 GMT -5
I was referring to the one show Lance was discussing. In that one show, 3-D destroyed MCMG both verbally and physically. It's usually a good idea to leave some sort of possibility that the victims MIGHT have have a chance. This particular show, excluding others, didn't do that. That was Lance's point. And I was merely agreeing. And they can't respond the next week? They WERE badly attacked, so you don't just hop up and cut a promo after that. Sorry if they want to keep some kind of logic. And why would Team 3D say anything nice to them? If I hate someone and want to destroy them and their buddies, I'm not gonna say anything nice about them. Why would I? It's all in how it's done. Team 3-D easily destroyed MCMG on that show after verbally laying into them. And that was the show. There are other ways to go about building heat for a match that won't risk the credibility of your stars. Every show is building toward a PPV, so every show should be trying to make everyone on that PPV look like real contenders. Letting one team single-handedly destroy them isn't the way to do it. Team 3-D could beat the bejeezuss out of them with chairs, bats, tire irons. Hell, they could run them over with a car if TNA wanted. Point is, 3-D would effectively lay out MCMG, building heat for the PPV match, without making MCMG look weak by comparison. There could always be that "Well if 3-D didn't have those weapons, they might not get so lucky." Likewise, with the MCMG getting help from the entire X-Division on the following show to destroy 3-D. It just seems like simple booking logic to me. I guess that's just how I'd do it if I were in their place. While the PPV match may have been great, I still am of the same opinion as Lance Storm that this particular incident on this particular show--which was brought up by stinger--was badly done. And I don't apologize for it.
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Post by thestinger on Dec 28, 2007 14:37:38 GMT -5
While the PPV match may have been great, I still am of the same opinion as Lance Storm that this particular incident on this particular show--which was brought up by stinger--was badly done. And I don't apologize for it. That's cool and all, but you can't argue with the success of the angle. The Motor City Machineguns look much better now than they did before, and the live crowd (as well as the one in my living room) freaking loved the match that segment was building to. That said, I often dislike angles and characters that are considered successful to, and I never apologize for it. P.S. Lance mostly bashed the promo aspect of that segment. His reasoning was that if Team 3D tells the audience the MCMG suck, and then lose to them, both teams look weak. Frankly, the audience should be intelligent to realize that "heels lie" to quote Scott Hall.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 28, 2007 14:38:10 GMT -5
To be fair, even if it comes off word for word what the script said, TNA rarely feels scripted to me. Just listen to AJ's goofy promos from the last few weeks, and it's hard to imagine that somebody just wrote it up word-for-word.
Not to open up the whole "WWE IS WORSER!" argument, but WWE often FEELS scripted to me. TNA usually doesn't. I'm not making a value judgment on either company in saying that, just going by my own observations.
Here's the thing for me: TNA is not my ideal company, it isn't perfect (not that any company is), and there are quite a few things I'd like to see them improve on. However, I'm typically pretty entertained, and it's pretty frustrating to come online often and read criticisms of TNA shows that are often full of errors, omissions, and "convenient forgetfulness". If you want to say "TNA doesn't do <insert booking technique here> well, and I much prefer companies that do", that's perfectly fine. It's when we get the whole "Angle changes face/heel every week!" or "Joe/AJ/whoever is getting buried!" talk that things just get eye-rollingly bad. Alvarez is typically that bad.
hollywood, as for the promos you're talking about, I honestly didn't see the problem with them; you can't really believe that the vast majority of people watching a wrestling show watch a feud, see ONE episode where the faces get attacked and run down, and automatically assume "they're weak/terrible/whatever!" The next week, they got a little payback, and then they won at the pay per view.
Now, if the ENTIRE month leading up to the PPV match was 3D beating the crap out of them and cutting nasty promos on them, with MCMG not getting to respond, that'd be God awful. But, really, the MCMG have come off looking like the stronger team MUCH more often in this feud.
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greate
Mephisto
Swearenger is the man
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Post by greate on Dec 28, 2007 15:14:54 GMT -5
A good example is Floyd Mayweather Jr. During the 24/7 build-up for his fight with Oscar De La Hoya on HBO this past spring he buried the Golden Boy at every turn, saying he (Floyd) was the better man and was going to whip this guy's ass. He was a perfect heel. People bought into the dynamic to the tune of 2.4 million buys.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Anybody who takes Floyd Mayweather's talk seriously should really get a grip, especially when he apologizes for everything after the match it's as lame as it gets.
When Joe Frazier said "Who you calling ignorant" the security stood up. When Larry Holmes said "So f***in what" everybody silenced, there IS power in words but not for people like Floyd Mayweather.
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hollywood
King Koopa
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Post by hollywood on Dec 28, 2007 17:34:19 GMT -5
hollywood, as for the promos you're talking about, I honestly didn't see the problem with them; you can't really believe that the vast majority of people watching a wrestling show watch a feud, see ONE episode where the faces get attacked and run down, and automatically assume "they're weak/terrible/whatever!" The next week, they got a little payback, and then they won at the pay per view. Now, if the ENTIRE month leading up to the PPV match was 3D beating the crap out of them and cutting nasty promos on them, with MCMG not getting to respond, that'd be God awful. But, really, the MCMG have come off looking like the stronger team MUCH more often in this feud. See, I'm not denying that TNA made up for their bad show the following weeks and at the PPV. I just thought the way that single show played out was badly done, just like Lance. So I don't think he was wrong. And I don't think I was wrong. It's just my view of how that one show was done. And just for the record, there's plenty of times I've watched a single episode and ended up saying "they're weak/terrible/whatever." Of course, admittedly, that's usually directed at TNA as a whole rather than one wrestler or tag team.
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Post by thestinger on Dec 28, 2007 17:38:06 GMT -5
And just for the record, there's plenty of times I've watched a single episode and ended up saying "they're weak/terrible/whatever." Of course, admittedly, that's usually directed at TNA as a whole rather than one wrestler or tag team. Well at least they're better than WWE! Just Kidding! (Well no, I'm really not, but you get what I'm doing)
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hollywood
King Koopa
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Post by hollywood on Dec 28, 2007 17:39:09 GMT -5
And just for the record, there's plenty of times I've watched a single episode and ended up saying "they're weak/terrible/whatever." Of course, admittedly, that's usually directed at TNA as a whole rather than one wrestler or tag team. Well at least they're better than WWE! Just Kidding! (Well no, I'm really not, but you get what I'm doing) lol whatevrr tna is teh suxxorzz!1!!!!!1!1one
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Post by thestinger on Dec 28, 2007 17:39:55 GMT -5
lol whatevrr tna is teh suxxorzz!1!!!!!1!1one ;D I don't know if this is relevant but I hate Brother Ray. (And he's not too fond of me either, to be honest)
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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 28, 2007 17:53:57 GMT -5
A few things I noticed when I read the script(instead of skimming like I did before) -Like I said before, there's a lot of space on the script. There are a couple of pages that are 90% blank, and some that don't use much of it. I could probably write a two hour show script that's 54 pages long. Of course, it'll have empty pages, big font, and some drawings of Traci Brooks and a vial of vasoline, but it can be done. -Vince Russo pretty much only seems to do the interview segments. Wonder how many people will enjoy them, and suddenly call them Gooker material when they find out it's Russo who writes it? -The words "ODB" and "Beauty Shot" don't belong in the same sentence. -There's been 314 episodes of iMPACT?!
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hollywood
King Koopa
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Post by hollywood on Dec 28, 2007 17:58:02 GMT -5
lol whatevrr tna is teh suxxorzz!1!!!!!1!1one ;D I don't know if this is relevant but I hate Brother Ray. (And he's not too fond of me either, to be honest)Just out of curiousity, what's you sign in your sig say? -Vince Russo pretty much only seems to do the interview segments. Wonder how many people will enjoy them, and suddenly call them Gooker material when they find out it's Russo who writes it? Just for the record, I've thought most TNA interviews were Gooker material for a long time now. Seeing Russo's name attached to them now only furthers my opinion that I've repeated time and time again: Vince Russo is an idiot.
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Post by thestinger on Dec 28, 2007 18:22:10 GMT -5
Just out of curiousity, what's you sign in your sig say? That's me holding a sign that says, " Brother Ray = Fat Pig" I was concerned that the words alone may not convey the message properly, so there was also a drawing of a cartoon pig wearing a plaid vest. Ray noticed the sign immediately and somehow managed to deduce that I was mocking him. You can see here my brother is holding a sign that read simply, "Bacon." The moment Ray entered the ring we began chanting "Smells like Bacon!" so he would get the message. He tore up our signs, and challanged us to come over the railing and we laughed at him. Then he left, taking the torn up signs with him backstage (he obviously wanted to keep them for sentimental value). Then I did the only rational thing. I consulted with an old colleague from grad school who got her degree in forensic psychology to work up a psych profile of Ray to determine what kind of sign would be most damaging to his self-esteem. The answer? He's apparantly really sensitive about his weight. The next time we met he was confronted with these. I hate Brother Ray.
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Post by CJ Denton is Egon on Dec 28, 2007 18:34:18 GMT -5
I mark for Jabba-ray
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