Jeff
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,074
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Post by Jeff on Dec 27, 2007 20:57:25 GMT -5
Fake
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Post by eJm on Dec 28, 2007 8:25:23 GMT -5
I was never making you see in any direction, I was simply giving you my view in a way that would best describe it. Maybe it wasn't authodox, but it was the best way I could say it. I just wish you could accept that I think differently from you because it just seems like you find it hard to. I have no problem accepting that you think differently, and don't think I have ever even implied it. If you want to think that it's some huge affront to use a word that accurately describes the nature of the contests, be my guest. However, I do have a problem when you claim I'm saying a whole bunch of things that I've never said nor gotten anywhere close to implying, which is exactly what your "analogy" shows. You're getting pissy not because of anything anyone has said, but because of something you've essentially made up to get pissy about. If I acted like that, then I apologise, and that was not my intention at all. But you are making things out to be fact when they're not which is what is really bugging me. It's not fact that wrestling is a fake competition, you're just making it out that it is fact when I disagree with you about it. In cases like this, IMO, it is not that black and white. That's my issue with you.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 28, 2007 9:45:58 GMT -5
If I acted like that, then I apologise, and that was not my intention at all. But you are making things out to be fact when they're not which is what is really bugging me. It's not fact that wrestling is a fake competition, you're just making it out that it is fact when I disagree with you about it. In cases like this, IMO, it is not that black and white. That's my issue with you. Are the two guys who enter the ring really trying to beat each other, meaning are they really trying to score the pinfall such that the outcome is not pre-determined? Answer that before anything else, competition is two people trying to beat each other in whatever it is they are competing at, thus for it to be real, they have to be really trying to win. You're saying it's not black and white, so tell me how it is really competition. If you can provide evidence to the contrary of all other evidence that the two guys in the majority of professional wrestling matches are really trying to beat each other, and by that I mean that the endings are not pre-determined, then by all means, I will retract my statement that the competition that is portrayed is fake. Otherwise, yes, it is black and white. If it's not reality, ie, not true competition, then it's fake. That's the definition of the word fake and that is fact, regardless of how much it bugs you. Yes, whether something is real or not is black and white. Me going to the office is real. What I watch on The Office isn't. It doesn't mean anything more than that. More than a few people, including wrestlers themselves, have recognized the fact that the competition is fake and plenty of users in this thread have expressed so much, Loki better than most people.
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Post by eJm on Dec 28, 2007 9:52:35 GMT -5
If I acted like that, then I apologise, and that was not my intention at all. But you are making things out to be fact when they're not which is what is really bugging me. It's not fact that wrestling is a fake competition, you're just making it out that it is fact when I disagree with you about it. In cases like this, IMO, it is not that black and white. That's my issue with you. Are the two guys who enter the ring really trying to beat each other, meaning are they really trying to score the pinfall such that the outcome is not pre-determined? Answer that before anything else, competition is two people trying to beat each other in whatever it is they are competing at, thus for it to be real,, they have to be really trying to win. If you can provide evidence to the contrary of all other evidence that the two guys in the majority of professional wrestling matches are really trying to beat each other, and by that I mean that the endings are not pre-determined, then by all means, I will retract my statement that the competition that is portrayed is fake. Otherwise, yes, it is black and white. If it's not reality, ie, not true competition, then it's fake. That's the definition of the word fake and that is fact, regardless of how much it bugs you. Yes, whether something is real or not is black and white. Me going to the office is real. What I watch on The Office isn't. It doesn't mean anything more than that. More than a few people, including wrestlers themselves, have recognized the fact that the competition is fake and plenty of users in this thread have expressed so much, Loki better than most people. Look, I'm fed up with this. I don't care if I get a warning for this, but I have to say this. You're right, alright? I'm wrong. You want me to admit I'm wrong and that I'm a shitface, then there you go, I'm a smurfing shitface. Happy? I just never liked the word fake, but you like to hound my mind that I'm wrong which I am. Fine, it's fake. You heard it from me and now you're going to reply to this thinking I'm an asshole. That's how people work and that's how the world works. I'm glad you've got your way so I'll kindly get out of your way and admit, once again, that I'm a piece of crap.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Dec 28, 2007 9:56:32 GMT -5
If I acted like that, then I apologise, and that was not my intention at all. But you are making things out to be fact when they're not which is what is really bugging me. It's not fact that wrestling is a fake competition, you're just making it out that it is fact when I disagree with you about it. In cases like this, IMO, it is not that black and white. That's my issue with you. Are the two guys who enter the ring really trying to beat each other, meaning are they really trying to score the pinfall such that the outcome is not pre-determined? Answer that before anything else, competition is two people trying to beat each other in whatever it is they are competing at, thus for it to be real, they have to be really trying to win. You're saying it's not black and white, so tell me how it is really competition. If you can provide evidence to the contrary of all other evidence that the two guys in the majority of professional wrestling matches are really trying to beat each other, and by that I mean that the endings are not pre-determined, then by all means, I will retract my statement that the competition that is portrayed is fake. Otherwise, yes, it is black and white. If it's not reality, ie, not true competition, then it's fake. That's the definition of the word fake and that is fact, regardless of how much it bugs you. Yes, whether something is real or not is black and white. Me going to the office is real. What I watch on The Office isn't. It doesn't mean anything more than that. More than a few people, including wrestlers themselves, have recognized the fact that the competition is fake and plenty of users in this thread have expressed so much, Loki better than most people. ...You mate take a suplex and then say "Its fake!" ITS JUST FIXED, the moves are real they can kill you done wrong. ITS NOT FAKE, "ooh its like 24" if Keifier Suvilan put his life on the line 3 times a week!
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 28, 2007 9:59:12 GMT -5
Look, I'm fed up with this. I don't care if I get a warning for this, but I have to say this. You're right, alright? I'm wrong. You want me to admit I'm wrong and that I'm a crapface, then there you go, I'm a smurfing crapface. Happy? I just never liked the word fake, but you like to hound my mind that I'm wrong which I am. Fine, it's fake. You heard it from me and now you're going to reply to this thinking I'm an asshole. That's how people work and that's how the world works. I'm glad you've got your way so I'll kindly get out of your way and admit, once again, that I'm a piece of crap. Nope, you're not an asshole. Thinking it's an insult to call an activity something isn't assholeish. The only reason I "hounded" is because you were saying that I didn't respect them, which isn't true at all. You can dislike the word all you want and I have no problem with that. ...You mate take a suplex and then say "Its fake!" ITS JUST FIXED, the moves are real they can kill you done wrong. ITS NOT FAKE, "ooh its like 24" if Keifier Suvilan put his life on the line 3 times a week! You missed the point, and apparently the other things I've said. The competition of it is fake, because they're not really trying to win. That doesn't mean they aren't really doing moves, that it's not really dangerous, or anything. It means that they aren't really trying to win.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Dec 28, 2007 9:59:37 GMT -5
I think we all kinda need to step back a second here and chill. No need to have this thread locked.
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Dec 28, 2007 10:02:05 GMT -5
Look, I'm fed up with this. I don't care if I get a warning for this, but I have to say this. You're right, alright? I'm wrong. You want me to admit I'm wrong and that I'm a crapface, then there you go, I'm a smurfing crapface. Happy? I just never liked the word fake, but you like to hound my mind that I'm wrong which I am. Fine, it's fake. You heard it from me and now you're going to reply to this thinking I'm an asshole. That's how people work and that's how the world works. I'm glad you've got your way so I'll kindly get out of your way and admit, once again, that I'm a piece of crap. Nope, you're not an asshole. Thinking it's an insult to call an activity something isn't assholeish. The only reason I "hounded" is because you were saying that I didn't respect them, which isn't true at all. You can dislike the word all you want and I have no problem with that. ...Mate you were hounding him with your opinion stating it was fact.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Dec 28, 2007 10:02:40 GMT -5
Nope, you're not an asshole. Thinking it's an insult to call an activity something isn't assholeish. The only reason I "hounded" is because you were saying that I didn't respect them, which isn't true at all. You can dislike the word all you want and I have no problem with that. ...Mate you were hounding him with your opinion stating it was fact. Chill.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 28, 2007 10:06:34 GMT -5
...Mate you were hounding him with your opinion stating it was fact. You're entitled to your opinion on the subject matter, but I did tell him why I had a problem with what he was saying, because he was essentially likening it to me saying that I didn't respect them. As for it being an opinion, I give you the same offer, show me that they are really trying to win and I will happily say that the competition isn't fake. That's the only aspect of it that I called fake. Not the moves, the pain or anything else, just the premise that they were trying to win. Telling me to take a suplex or anything doesn't really address it.
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Post by eJm on Dec 28, 2007 10:08:00 GMT -5
I might as well say this before all hell breaks loose.
I'm sorry.
To Hawk, to everyone else
I let out my emotions in the wrong way and I shouldn't have taken it as personally as I did. And now, probably, I've made people think a little bit less about me because of what happened.
It comes with the territory (being Autistic) but it doesn't make it less wrong for it to happen.
But again, I apologie for what happened. and I'd rather we both just drop it without anything else. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to try and change yours and make you look bad.
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ACG2x
Unicron
Posts: 3,139
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Post by ACG2x on Dec 28, 2007 10:13:04 GMT -5
Scripted FTW. I remember reading an old Hogan interview and the interviewer said "scripted" and Hogan responded that he was glad the interviewer didn't say "fake" because the pain that wrestlers feel taking bumps, getting hit w/ chairs, etc. really does hurt.
I actually think the old WWE "Don't Try This at Home" lines said it best - "Yes, this is entertainment...but the hazards are real".
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Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
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Post by Square on Dec 28, 2007 11:27:33 GMT -5
...Mate you were hounding him with your opinion stating it was fact. You're entitled to your opinion on the subject matter, but I did tell him why I had a problem with what he was saying, because he was essentially likening it to me saying that I didn't respect them. As for it being an opinion, I give you the same offer, show me that they are really trying to win and I will happily say that the competition isn't fake. That's the only aspect of it that I called fake. Not the moves, the pain or anything else, just the premise that they were trying to win. Telling me to take a suplex or anything doesn't really address it. But Reality shows make sure there endings have the nice guy, are they fake?
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Post by Loki on Dec 28, 2007 11:31:36 GMT -5
For the love of God... it's only a word!
I don't get why so many take the "wrestling is fake" line as a personal insult. We're ALL fans, and we enjoy wrestling.
But hiding our head in the sand, refusing to analyze the true nature of pro wrestling is just silly IMO.
When I say "competition in pro wrestling is fake" I'm not disrespecting every single wrestler in the world, from the WWE Superstars to the guys taking their first wrestling lesson.
I respect them for putting their bodies on the line for my entertainment, I respect their committment to the "sport", I admire them for doing things I wouldn't dream to do myself.
BUT
what goes on on WWE TV and on every wrestling show is FAKE COMPETITION between two (or more) performers who are following a script leading to a predetermined ending.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 28, 2007 11:40:42 GMT -5
But Reality shows make sure there endings have the nice guy, are they fake? Competition requires two people trying to really win. Something presented as a competition that lacks that isn't real competition. If a reality show does that, yes, it would be fake competition. However, the nature of something else doesn't determine if professional wrestling is real or fake competition. It's not some big insult, it's a statement as to what that aspect of it is. Who holds the belts, who wins the matches, etc aren't really determined in the ring, they're determined back stage by the bookers.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 28, 2007 11:49:56 GMT -5
Oh, give me a break. It's just a freaking word.
I refer to wrestling as "fake" all the time, and I fail to see how that's disrespectful.
Obviously when I say that, I mean that everything is planned out in advance. If you can't deduce that, too bad.
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OriasPool
Samurai Cop
May the power protect you
Posts: 2,381
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Post by OriasPool on Dec 29, 2007 3:24:35 GMT -5
She said Kabuki, hehehehehehehe! Sgt Kabukiman N.Y.P.D?
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BHB
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,778
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Post by BHB on Dec 29, 2007 7:34:17 GMT -5
I say predetermined.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,273
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 29, 2007 16:23:21 GMT -5
What's the difference between staged and scripted?
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Jeff
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,074
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Post by Jeff on Dec 29, 2007 17:54:55 GMT -5
Fake.
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