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Post by chibidiablo on Dec 30, 2007 19:10:13 GMT -5
Why the smurf do UFC keep putting pride guys in against the smurfing cream of the crop when its a lot of their first times in the octagon. I know the appeal of dream fights is strong but it doesn't mean smurf all if no-one knows them and they get beat straight away. UFC have smurfed this worse than the InVasion. there are no pride fighters left to pop a buy-rate because they threw them all in the deep end. This crap is farcical
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Post by mysterydriver on Dec 30, 2007 19:13:18 GMT -5
Very nice InVasion comparison.
The whole point of this thing is so UFC can go, "Hey look, we're much better than they ever were." just like a certain wrestling promotion treated WCW...
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Post by Bong Buster Bundy on Dec 30, 2007 19:18:16 GMT -5
Not so in all cases. Cro Cop got fed Sanchez and even Gonzaga after that was a no-name at the time.
Nogueira got given a guy he'd beaten twice previously.
Rampage got the jobber Eastman.
Shogun and Wanderlai got big name guys but hell in Wanderlai's case, it may be 7 years since but he has been in an Octagon 3 times before. I think the big issue is not putting them in at the deep end but a lot of these guys being small for the weight division. The size of both Wand and Shogun, they'd be better suited to Middleweight.
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Post by chibidiablo on Dec 30, 2007 19:23:03 GMT -5
Apart from Rampage there are no ex-pride guys who can bring in a buy-rate. Except maybe Henderson v Silva, but even the they will have to do a hell of a job hyping Dan at that weight
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
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Post by Reverend BTY on Dec 30, 2007 20:01:24 GMT -5
Apart from Rampage there are no ex-pride guys who can bring in a buy-rate. Except maybe Henderson v Silva, but even the they will have to do a hell of a job hyping Dan at that weight Well Rampage's fight was the most hyped of any ex-PRIDE fighter. The media coverage was massive for that event, more than any since. Not only that but it was mainly on Liddell with Rampage on for the ride. Now are they arranging the fights the way I would? Oh hell no. But they're doing fine IMO.
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Post by Mr Ismaeal Naji on Dec 30, 2007 20:12:37 GMT -5
love the comparision with the E and UFC
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damna
Don Corleone
Sorry Anderson Silva, but Fedor is still number 1!
Posts: 1,819
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Post by damna on Dec 30, 2007 20:16:52 GMT -5
It's UFC's fault that some of them didn't train enough with a cage? It's not like Cro Cop lost to top tier fighters, and Silva vs. Liddell had to be done asap before Liddell (possibly) lost again and start to really lose his appeal.
They probably should have postponed the shogun fight to let hm heal however.
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Post by Chris Decker-The Wild Rover on Dec 30, 2007 20:20:35 GMT -5
i'm convinced that the only reason that Rampage and Anderson Silva have done well cause they fought in other cage structures. Rampage in WFA and Silva in Cage rage.
with that said i fully believe in the Cage fitters. I fully believe that Shogun will be back, and Wanderlei I believe might have actually gained more by loosing than by winning.
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KLRA
El Dandy
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Post by KLRA on Dec 30, 2007 20:43:17 GMT -5
I actually wouldn't be surprised if they do another Liddell/Silva fight because it wasn't terribly conclusive to me that Liddell was the 100% better man. I wouldn't mind seeing another 3 rounds of those guys.
I don't believe the Pride guys are being thrown in the deep end. The majority (as it was stated) got cream puffs the first time and then were given the big fights.
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Post by x on Dec 30, 2007 20:47:54 GMT -5
It's the American Rules vs the Japanese Rules.
The differences are so huge, it's not cage vs ring, it's knees to a downed opponent vs elbows. Japan wants KOs they get knees, America wants cuts they get elbows. The stomping a downed opponent in Japan.
Even the way the fights are judged is different. In Japan they just judge the fight as one big fight instead of the 10 point must system.
But PRIDE isn't being buried too much. Look at it this way: The only 2 active defending champions in the UFC are former PRIDE guys.
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Post by chibidiablo on Dec 30, 2007 21:04:04 GMT -5
It's UFC's fault that some of them didn't train enough with a cage? It's not like Cro Cop lost to top tier fighters, and Silva vs. Liddell had to be done asap before Liddell (possibly) lost again and start to really lose his appeal. They probably should have postponed the shogun fight to let hm heal however. Shogun got Griffin. Silva got Liddell and Henderson got a Jackson acclimatised to the octagon
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Post by Save_Us.Voicebox on Dec 30, 2007 21:33:41 GMT -5
It's UFC's fault that some of them didn't train enough with a cage? It's not like Cro Cop lost to top tier fighters, and Silva vs. Liddell had to be done asap before Liddell (possibly) lost again and start to really lose his appeal. They probably should have postponed the shogun fight to let hm heal however. Shogun got Griffin. Silva got Liddell and Henderson got a Jackson acclimatised to the octagon Chib do you remember the odds for those fights you just listed? Let me refresh your memory: Griffin +300 Shogun -280 (favorite but lost the fight) Liddell +140 Silva -120 (favorite but lost the favorite) Henderson -100 (dead even lost the fight) Jackson -100 In each case, the Pride fighters were the odds on favorites, and whom most predicted to win, ESPECIALLY in the Shogun-Griffin fight. Mirko got Sanchez--- Mirko was the favorite at like -600 (won the fight).... In fact, in all 3 of Mirko's fights he was the favorite by -600! Herring got Jake O'Brien--- Herring was the favorite at like -420 (lost the fight) Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira got Herring--- Nogueira was the favorite -620 (Won the fight) Anderson Silva got Chris Leben--- Silva was the favorite at about -260 (won the fight) Rampage got Eastman--- Rampage was the favorite at about -560 (won the fight) It isn't UFC's fault they lost, or had the quality of showing they did (some had a good-great showing in fact), it's the fighters fault. I love Pride as much as the next guy, but this isn't about the UFC burying Pride fighters, in fact they advertised the Pride fighters as some of the best and most dangerous in the world, but what happened wasn't the UFC's fault.... This isn't pro-wrestling, nor is it MMA's version of WWE's invasion angle.
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damna
Don Corleone
Sorry Anderson Silva, but Fedor is still number 1!
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Post by damna on Dec 30, 2007 21:38:24 GMT -5
Shogun got Griffin. Silva got Liddell and Henderson got a Jackson acclimatised to the octagon Chib do you remember the odds for those fights you just listed? Let me refresh your memory: Griffin +300 Shogun -280 (favorite but lost the fight) Liddell +140 Silva -120 (favorite but lost the favorite) Henderson -100 (dead even lost the fight) Jackson -100 In each case, the Pride fighters were the odds on favorites, and whom most predicted to win, ESPECIALLY in the Shogun-Griffin fight. Mirko got Sanchez--- Mirko was the favorite at like -600 (won the fight).... In fact, in all 3 of Mirko's fights he was the favorite by -600! Herring got Jake O'Brien--- Herring was the favorite at like -420 (lost the fight) Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira got Herring--- Nogueira was the favorite -620 (Won the fight) Anderson Silva got Chris Leben--- Silva was the favorite at about -260 (won the fight) Rampage got Eastman--- Rampage was the favorite at about -560 (won the fight) It isn't UFC's fault they lost, or had the quality of showing they did (some had a good-great showing in fact), it's the fighters fault. I love Pride as much as the next guy, but this isn't about the UFC burying Pride fighters, in fact they advertised the Pride fighters as some of the best and most dangerous in the world, but what happened wasn't the UFC's fault.... This isn't pro-wrestling, nor is it MMA's version of WWE's invasion angle. I was going to retort..but this last post pretty much makes my argument for me....
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Post by Chris Decker-The Wild Rover on Dec 30, 2007 21:41:22 GMT -5
i honestly believe as well the Big Nog will be the saving grace for PRIDE. theres no way that fat f*** sylvia will be able to take Nog
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NIXON
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Post by NIXON on Dec 30, 2007 22:10:29 GMT -5
I don't really think UFC is trying to bury the pride guys. Fact is, even if they were, nobody will ever buy that UFC is actually that much better than Pride until one of their guys beats Fedor.
As for the Liddell/Silva fight: The fact that Wanderlei hasnt fought in like 10 months, and is currently training with a different camp I think hurt him a bit. Not to mention the fact that Liddell was fighting out of desperation after his 2 recent losses. It shouldn't even have been close with those factors, and Silva managed to hang with Chuck until the end. If there is a rematch,I believe Chuck is done inside of 3 minutes. I'm not trying to make excuses for Silva, but i personally believe him to be the superior fighter of the two regardless of last nights results.
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Post by Mr Ismaeal Naji on Dec 30, 2007 22:12:19 GMT -5
i honestly believe as well the Big Nog will be the saving grace for PRIDE. theres no way that fat smurf sylvia will be able to take Nog hopefully tim sylvia doesn't think he's a sandwich again and try to push up big nog against the cage on a side note I like this, civilized MMA talk that doesn't have know nothing no it alls like on sherdog!
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Post by Chris Decker-The Wild Rover on Dec 30, 2007 23:49:53 GMT -5
i honestly believe as well the Big Nog will be the saving grace for PRIDE. theres no way that fat smurf sylvia will be able to take Nog hopefully tim sylvia doesn't think he's a sandwich again and try to push up big nog against the cage on a side note I like this, civilized MMA talk that doesn't have know nothing no it alls like on sherdog! well its sherdog, you get what you pay for. i mean if it were up to me i'd still want an actuall MMA forum, cause there have been complaints about flooding this board with MMA topics
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KLRA
El Dandy
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Post by KLRA on Dec 30, 2007 23:54:34 GMT -5
Yeah, whoever brought up the point that the two current active champions right now are former Pride guys hit the nail on the head. Anderson Silva was brought in and talked about how lethal he was with kicks in Pride...and the handed Rich Franklin's ass to him.
Jackson came in and destroyed the biggest name in the UFC.
Pride's not coming out looking to shabby.
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damna
Don Corleone
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Post by damna on Dec 30, 2007 23:58:26 GMT -5
Yeah, whoever brought up the point that the two current active champions right now are former Pride guys hit the nail on the head. Anderson Silva was brought in and talked about how lethal he was with kicks in Pride...and the handed Rich Franklin's ass to him. Jackson came in and destroyed the biggest name in the UFC. Pride's not coming out looking to shabby. I agree, if anything, I think the overall conclusion is that there was parity between Pride and UFC. Pride is making a strong showing (overall) in LHW and Middleweight, UFC in Lightweight and Welterweight, with HWT to be determined...
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Post by Joekishi on Dec 31, 2007 0:48:44 GMT -5
Very nice InVasion comparison. The whole point of this thing is so UFC can go, "Hey look, we're much better than they ever were." just like a certain wrestling promotion treated WCW... wha but Rampage and Big Nog are still not beaten in UFC and Rampage basically destroyed Chuck. I still think there's a lot of value in guys like Silva, and Soku. I mean Soku is still young. I hate how MMA fans in particular always jump on people when they lose. I like to say their records and the fights speak for themselves. 1 loss, 2 losses, 3 losses, will not de-rail you. hell look at Forest, it took him a while, but he earned that win against Shogun.
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