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Post by emoney3265 on Apr 17, 2008 11:28:24 GMT -5
I'm now physics expert but doesn't spinning speed up your velocity so when your body comes back around you are "moving faster" so theres more impact?? That made sense in my head but it probably doesn't to anyone else but can anyone make sense of it?? Doesnt' speed up velocity, since velocity is speed with direction, but increases it by moving constantly, thus creating constantly changing velocity and constant acceleration. And yes, I was the guy who was in this debate. So I say that a spinning splash is more effective in general. I will admit, after thinking about it, that with an SSP or Lightning Strike (backwards 450) the direction of rotation is in the opposite direction to movement, thus decreasing the impact velocity, but with a Phoenix, 450, Moonsault, 630 or Skytwister, the rotation is in the same direction as movement so impact is greater. it depends entirely on the direction of said flippy move. An SSP is basically as effectvie as a regular splash, but a 450 would be more effective. I agree with everything since it's all true. Backwards moving spins would decrease velocity thus decreasing impact. Forward spinning would increase velocity thus increasing impact. Example - Moonsault is weaker than a 5 star frogsplash Example - Shooting star press is weaker than a 450. O yea I forgot to say I'd do a 450.
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Post by Slammywinner on Apr 17, 2008 12:11:46 GMT -5
I was skeptical of flipy-floppy moves, but you've made too good a case. A height increase plus spinning into the momentum = more impact velocity. Now the resulting physics questions: Is the effort in potential Snukas to result in such an impact in kinetic snukas worth the flippy-floppy if a basic splash, which requires less energy to pull off, nets a higher ratio impact?
For example, if a 450 requires 5 snukas to exucute and releases impact of 5 snukas when landing on the mat, then do you think that a regular splash could be 2 snukas of effort to execute and 4 snukas of resultant impact? In this hypothetical scenario, the 450 would be 1:1 (effort to impact) while the basic splash would be 1:2. Think that could be true?
For me, because I'm lazy, if that is true, I'd normal spash a guy twice rather than learn how to flip.
EDIT: Sorry for the lame grammer and consruction. I couldn't read it either. Hope this makes more sense
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 17, 2008 12:55:40 GMT -5
I'm just glad I've coined the term Snukas as a unit of measure.
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Post by ellisdee on Apr 17, 2008 13:04:54 GMT -5
450 makes me mark out.
For one thing,hardly anybody can pull it off and if they can do it and make it look good it's the most beautiful thing in the world.
I also use it as an argument against "wrestling is fake" people. "Ok,well you go and do a 450 splash right f***ing now....no,you can't can you?"
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Apr 17, 2008 15:44:00 GMT -5
Doesnt' speed up velocity, since velocity is speed with direction, but increases it by moving constantly, thus creating constantly changing velocity and constant acceleration. And yes, I was the guy who was in this debate. So I say that a spinning splash is more effective in general. I will admit, after thinking about it, that with an SSP or Lightning Strike (backwards 450) the direction of rotation is in the opposite direction to movement, thus decreasing the impact velocity, but with a Phoenix, 450, Moonsault, 630 or Skytwister, the rotation is in the same direction as movement so impact is greater. it depends entirely on the direction of said flippy move. An SSP is basically as effectvie as a regular splash, but a 450 would be more effective. I agree with everything since it's all true. Backwards moving spins would decrease velocity thus decreasing impact. Forward spinning would increase velocity thus increasing impact. Example - Moonsault is weaker than a 5 star frogsplash Example - Shooting star press is weaker than a 450. O yea I forgot to say I'd do a 450. A shooting star would be no weaker than a regular splash, as despite the decrease in velocity,the backwards rotation turns the muscles' chemical energy into gravitational potential energy, which by backwards rotation is turned into a form of elastic energy. This then cancels out the momentum loss, meaning though an SSP is less effective than a 450 it is equal to say, a 5 Star. Height increases GPE, of course, so though say, Billy Kidman's SSP spins faster, someone like Paul London's SSP would be more fefectvie from a phsyics standpoint.
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Post by T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens on Apr 17, 2008 16:01:42 GMT -5
They're all amazing, but I'd go with a Frog Splash of the Five Star variety. First of all, my band is named Five Star so that'd be a cool little thing. But also because, while those other moves look very pretty, they don't always look like they'd hurt all that much. If I were really going to splash someone in real life, I'd want to get as high in the air as possible before coming down.
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Bub (BLM)
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Fed. Up.
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 17, 2008 16:14:10 GMT -5
I've always enjoyed a good Frog Splash. My favorites being the obvious Rob Van Dam and Eddie Guerrero (WCW days) options, but also Mike Awesome, Balls Mahoney, and D'Lo Brown. A good Frog Splash looks better than any flippy splash if we're talking purely about impact.
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Post by samachine on Apr 17, 2008 16:14:17 GMT -5
Regular, looks more legit.
Watch someone do a Senton vs a 450, looks way more legit.
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Post by bigdaddyfive on Apr 17, 2008 17:51:40 GMT -5
Whilst I can't pretend to understand the physics involved, I'd always assumed that any sort of flipping / twisting move would, in effect, create more drag by way of air resistance i.e. the longer you spend in the air, the more energy is being wasted.
Hence any move that involves the wrestler being a "deadweight" i.e. dropping like a stone from a height (senton splash) would have the most impact, as the fall would occur much quicker, thereby reducing drag.
So, a standard splash it'd have to be (for me anyway)
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Post by cruiserfan on Apr 17, 2008 18:12:26 GMT -5
Wow, no offence, but some pople here have weird ideas about physics.
Anyone who has ever landed a clean 450 (or has been landed on with a clean 450) can tell you how much more impact it has than a regular splash. It doesn't have anything to do with the number of spins and twists. If you imagine a big disc spinning, and picture a point on it close to the centre of the disc... it's not moving that fast. The point on the very outside of the spinning disc is moving a lot faster. Now put a human body inside this disc, and picture where the chest (where you land on someone with a 450) is on the disc; somewhere towards the outside of the disc. So the chest is obviously moving faster towards the ground than, say, your legs.
This is pretty much the reason why, in terms of impact, 450 > splash. Moonsaults would be more effective if you landed on them with anything below your hips, same goes for SSPs.
EDIT: Yes, your legs would be moving as fast on this disc as your chest, but not towards the ground. They are going in the other direction.
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Post by bigdaddyfive on Apr 17, 2008 18:40:54 GMT -5
Wow, no offence, but some pople here have weird ideas about physics. Anyone who has ever landed a clean 450 (or has been landed on with a clean 450) can tell you how much more impact it has than a regular splash. It doesn't have anything to do with the number of spins and twists. If you imagine a big disc spinning, and picture a point on it close to the centre of the disc... it's not moving that fast. The point on the very outside of the spinning disc is moving a lot faster. Now put a human body inside this disc, and picture where the chest (where you land on someone with a 450) is on the disc; somewhere towards the outside of the disc. So the chest is obviously moving faster towards the ground than, say, your legs. This is pretty much the reason why, in terms of impact, 450 > splash. Moonsaults would be more effective if you landed on them with anything below your hips, same goes for SSPs. EDIT: Yes, your legs would be moving as fast on this disc as your chest, but not towards the ground. They are going in the other direction. Do you mean that the centrifugal force would in effect create greater speed as the wrestler spun through the air? (Sorry, I'm a retard at physics)
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cart
Mephisto
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Post by cart on Apr 17, 2008 18:51:26 GMT -5
a spinny splash looks cooler.
end debate.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 17, 2008 18:55:56 GMT -5
Eh, that's why I introduced the whole Snuka unit of measure.. i.e., I didn't intend for it to be a literal physics discussion, as I'm not qualified, just a silly lil kayfabeesque topic.
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Post by bigdaddyfive on Apr 17, 2008 18:57:59 GMT -5
Eh, that's why I introduced the whole Snuka unit of measure.. i.e., I didn't intend for it to be a literal physics discussion, as I'm not qualified, just a silly lil kayfabeesque topic. The only thing silly in this topic is my understanding of physics...
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Joekishi
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Post by Joekishi on Apr 17, 2008 19:00:14 GMT -5
The 450 i think speeds rotation as guys don't float in the air like they do for splashes or the SSP. THey just go FLIP WHAM.
Also I gotta say sometimes a great Elbow and a Great Leg Drop are better than the 630 or a Spiral tap.
Also the Whoopie Cushion needs to make a comeback, everybody's doing Mosh's Mosh Pit, but nobody does the version where an oppoent is laying down.
Seriously tell me you wouldn't mark for something like Festus flying off the top with a Whoopie Cushion
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Post by cruiserfan on Apr 17, 2008 19:02:38 GMT -5
I think a great "anything" off the top is just fine, really.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Apr 18, 2008 7:15:28 GMT -5
Eh, that's why I introduced the whole Snuka unit of measure.. i.e., I didn't intend for it to be a literal physics discussion, as I'm not qualified, just a silly lil kayfabeesque topic. I take your point. I suppose in kayfabe it's really all down to the execution rather than the physics. Hence why a somersault senton from say, Chavo Guerrero, will be a near fall, but Jeff Hardy's Swanton gets a pin. Or Bubba Dudley's senton was only a 2 count at most, yet Dick Togo's is a finisher.
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Post by Back to being Cenanuff on Apr 18, 2008 8:00:18 GMT -5
So, if the units of force on a regular splash are measured in Snukas, what would the unit of measure on flippys be? Sydals? Meros? Kidmans?
And for the record, I'd take the Teddy Hart option. Save my flippy moves for after the match, when I can no-sell a loss and blackball myself from every fed in the whole freakin world.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Apr 18, 2008 16:17:41 GMT -5
Well Kidman's Shooting Star used to have so many Snukas it'd injure everyone, including himself! So I say flippy floppy FTW.
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mainsupreme
Unicron
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Post by mainsupreme on Apr 18, 2008 17:44:51 GMT -5
weight x height x G (=9,,81 on earth)
just jump as high as possible and you'll get the most force
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