Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Sept 19, 2008 16:26:09 GMT -5
Paul Heyman telling Vince McMahon how to run a wrestling fed is like Jake Roberts telling CM Punk how to live a straight edge lifestyle. Give me a smurfing break. Did you read what he said? He was dead on for the most part. |
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The Clincher
Trap-Jaw
Laid back like a broken lawn chair.
Posts: 320
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Post by The Clincher on Sept 19, 2008 16:33:50 GMT -5
Paul Heyman telling Vince McMahon how to run a wrestling fed is like Jake Roberts telling CM Punk how to live a straight edge lifestyle. Give me a smurfing break. Did you read what he said? He was dead on for the most part. Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. If he's such a damn genius why isn't he masterminding his own fed. Also, you can't say he's dead on because there is no proof his ideas would even work. If what the wrestlers wore was such a big deal then La Parka would be the greatest wrestler in the world. And he's not. |
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Sept 19, 2008 16:45:28 GMT -5
Did you read what he said? He was dead on for the most part. Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. If he's such a damn genius why isn't he masterminding his own fed. Also, you can't say he's dead on because there is no proof his ideas would even work. If what the wrestlers wore was such a big deal then La Parka would be the greatest wrestler in the world. And he's not. I said "for the most part." The problem he pointed out was accurate. And if he wanted to start up a promotion, I'm sure he could. And saying that Bischoff had no idea what people wanted was insane. Thanks to him, we got the nWo. Thanks to him, we got amazing Cruiserweights, some of whom went on to be World Champions. |
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The Clincher
Trap-Jaw
Laid back like a broken lawn chair.
Posts: 320
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Post by The Clincher on Sept 19, 2008 16:54:13 GMT -5
Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. If he's such a damn genius why isn't he masterminding his own fed. Also, you can't say he's dead on because there is no proof his ideas would even work. If what the wrestlers wore was such a big deal then La Parka would be the greatest wrestler in the world. And he's not. I said "for the most part." The problem he pointed out was accurate. And if he wanted to start up a promotion, I'm sure he could. And saying that Bischoff had no idea what people wanted was insane. Thanks to him, we got the nWo. Thanks to him, we got amazing Cruiserweights, some of whom went on to be World Champions. *Cruiserweights who went on to become World Champions in the WWE thanks to Vince trusting in them and giving them the push. And the only reason, and I stress ONLY, reason the nWo was successful was because it was guys Vince made. Once Bischoff tried to to make his own guys in the nWo (adding Muta, the other guy from Japan, Horrace Hogan etc...etc...etc...) the whole idea bombed and WCW died. Bischoff also falls into the category of *if he's such a damn genius why is he such a damn bum now*. |
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Sept 19, 2008 16:54:26 GMT -5
Did you read what he said? He was dead on for the most part. Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. If he's such a damn genius why isn't he masterminding his own fed. Also, you can't say he's dead on because there is no proof his ideas would even work. If what the wrestlers wore was such a big deal then La Parka would be the greatest wrestler in the world. And he's not. Oh, come on, most of your criticisms can be answered with one simple sentence: Paul Heyman was horrible with financial affairs. He's admitted so himself, and that's why ECW couldn't grow as huge as WWE eventually (besides, well, the DECADES of history WWE had to their name). You can't exactly explode that much that soon, and expecting ECW to have been a gigantic entity in its decade of existence is ridiculous. Why isn't he masterminding another fed? Because he isn't the type to bite his tongue when corporate games dictate. Because he probably got tired of the business too. Whatever the reason, it's completely wrong to assume that because he isn't running a large-scale fed that Heyman doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. The man makes some good points in his column. Not everything should be taken as gospel, of course, but to dismiss them because he made a comment about wrestling gear is short-sighted AT BEST. One of Heyman's strengths was accentuating a wrestler's strong points and hiding their weaknesses. Try and tell me this makes less sense than dumping useful wrestlers because "creative doesn't have anything for you" if they don't get over on a generic name, generic gear, and no mic time. |
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Brother Coyote
Samurai Cop
Has Clarity of Vision Is an engine of will
Posts: 2,124
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Post by Brother Coyote on Sept 19, 2008 16:55:49 GMT -5
If what the wrestlers wore was such a big deal then La Parka would be the greatest wrestler in the world. And he's not. SAYS YOU. |
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BK From WV
Hank Scorpio
Claims to have sense of humor, probably stole it
I'm Here
Posts: 5,611
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Post by BK From WV on Sept 19, 2008 16:58:45 GMT -5
I agree with Paul here completely.
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The Clincher
Trap-Jaw
Laid back like a broken lawn chair.
Posts: 320
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Post by The Clincher on Sept 19, 2008 16:59:07 GMT -5
Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. If he's such a damn genius why isn't he masterminding his own fed. Also, you can't say he's dead on because there is no proof his ideas would even work. If what the wrestlers wore was such a big deal then La Parka would be the greatest wrestler in the world. And he's not. Oh, come on, most of your criticisms can be answered with one simple sentence: Paul Heyman was horrible with financial affairs. I think that's a cop out. TNA was able to find financial backing. If ECW appeared to anyone not in the IWC as a lucrative big business venture he could have too. Point is ECW was great, it simply was not designed in a way that was ever going to get over with the masses. |
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Sept 19, 2008 17:03:06 GMT -5
Uh, I'm an adult male, and I think the Jonas Brothers are decent...
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Sept 19, 2008 17:09:32 GMT -5
Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. The Attitude era was for the most part ECW's concepts coupled with money and Vince's brilliant time-tested promotion behind it. Paul's issues were not paying his debts, not creating good concepts. Every good concept he came up with was incorporated into the best aspects of both WWF and WCW during their peak years. |
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The Clincher
Trap-Jaw
Laid back like a broken lawn chair.
Posts: 320
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Post by The Clincher on Sept 19, 2008 17:14:00 GMT -5
Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. ECW, while popular to a very small cult following, never did and never would have made it big time. The Attitude era was for the most part ECW's concepts coupled with money and Vince's brilliant time-tested promotion behind it. Paul's issues were not paying his debts, not creating good concepts. Every good concept he came up with was incorporated into the best aspects of both WWF and WCW during their peak years. I enjoyed ECW. I know there was a nice cruiserweight division in WCW and a of those guys went on to be WWE Champion. But you never saw the outright crazy ass violence that fueled ECW in WCW or the WWF and that's what I'm saying would have never appeased the masses. As far as the Attitude era. imo, that was one thing. SCSA vs. McMahon. Everything else was just undercard. |
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Sept 19, 2008 17:23:00 GMT -5
The Attitude era was for the most part ECW's concepts coupled with money and Vince's brilliant time-tested promotion behind it. Paul's issues were not paying his debts, not creating good concepts. Every good concept he came up with was incorporated into the best aspects of both WWF and WCW during their peak years. I enjoyed ECW. I know there was a nice cruiserweight division in WCW and a of those guys went on to be WWE Champion. But you never saw the outright crazy ass violence that fueled ECW in WCW or the WWF and that's what I'm saying would have never appeased the masses. As far as the Attitude era. imo, that was one thing. SCSA vs. McMahon. Everything else was just undercard. I agree with you about the violence aspect. I think Paul E. used that as a smokescreen to disguise the limited offense of most of his top tier brawlers. What I meant is the "counter-culture" feel. Stone Cold and nWo were concepts "attitude" wise that were very ECW-esque. Shades-of-gray cool bad-asses. That style of booking caught fire because it appealed to angry teenagers at the time. And it was a direction popularized by Heyman while WWF and WCW were still creating characters that no one could relate to. Look at WWF and WCW in 1995. It was where WWE is now. Riding the tail-end of a once successful direction that has ran its course. I think Heyman was just suggesting that WWE think outside the box. Vince has gotten old. It happens to everyone. There's no 60 year old man on earth that can relate to teenagers. And most of the agents are ancient, too. There's not a damn thing wrong with the wrestlers. The problem is on how the characters are presented. Every new wrestler is identical like they've been mass produced in a factory with the same style, look, tights, etc. |
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The Clincher
Trap-Jaw
Laid back like a broken lawn chair.
Posts: 320
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Post by The Clincher on Sept 19, 2008 17:31:14 GMT -5
That all makes sense. I guess I'm just saying Heyman isn't saying anything here we haven't heard a hundred times before. The same things he says here pop up on this board every day. Just because he signs his name at the bottom of that list doesn't make him some genius.
I know some people hate this argument, but the fact is the WWE is making more $$$ now than ever and for Vince, that's all that matters. And really, that's all that should to him.
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Post by Cactus Jack on Sept 24, 2008 10:51:28 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Sept 24, 2008 11:39:53 GMT -5
People bash Paul E. for his ideas I see, but he's right. It's what happened with the attitude era, where WWE got more into the times.
Paul took ECW from running one show a month to a program with national television. Yes, he was a bad business man, he's not talking about how to run it in a business aspect. He's talking about in a television and popular culture aspect.
People make fun of Heyman because he tried to wear too many hats. Paul is in no way the business man that Vince is, but he understands pop culture, something that Vince, and a lot of creative don't.
That's why I liked the concept of WSX, because a lot of youth today could relate to the characters on that show. If they were a better run company, they would still be around today. But, just because the people didn't run a company properly, doesn't mean they didn't have good ideas in how to produce a wrestling product.
It's all about relating to your audience, and not to say Vince isn't a creative genious, but he has something going against him. He's well over 60 years old. Kevin Sullivan did a shoot with Raven, where he said he's always considered himself an open minded person, but even he thought it was annoying to see kids with their underwear hanging out of their pants. He knew that he was getting older, and his tastes are going to be different then a lot of the youth. He finds going out on a boat and fishing to be funner then what most youth would consider fun.
So Heyman is right. To be honest, I don't believe Vince is someone who completely ignores different ideas, I think he wants people to tell him different ideas, but people are afraid in doing so. I've heard some shoots with different guys that, he's willing to listen to people giving him ideas if they feel they will help make more money. Vince understands he can be wrong sometimes, but people are so job scared, they don't want to say anything.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785 
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Post by The OP on Sept 24, 2008 12:23:09 GMT -5
Did you read what he said? He was dead on for the most part. Yes, I did. I think Paul Heyman is an idiot. Much like Bischoff, he may have been a squirrel that found a nut at one point in life, but for the most part, he has no idea what the people want. Hey, let's not bring Bischoff into this. I don't know what Heyman does now, but Bischoff still works in television and makes money. That's what he's done for a long time, before, during, and after WCW. |
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Sept 24, 2008 12:25:02 GMT -5
It's funny that Heyman only opens his mouth AFTER he is fired. I never heard anything about him trying to improve the product while he was with them, more or less did what he had to do and collected a paycheck. Dude, there were all kinds of reports all the time about Heyman not getting what he wanted and butting heads with people like Vince and Laurinitis. Where were you? |
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Above Average
Wade Wilson
Being Held Down by the Man and Several "Women"
Old School Tope Con Fiveo!!!
Posts: 25,137
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Post by Above Average on Sept 24, 2008 12:35:11 GMT -5
Bischoff also falls into the category of *if he's such a damn genius why is he such a damn bum now*. If Eric, millionaire, never have to work again in his life if he doesn't wish to, Bischoff is considered a bum, then I want to be a bum too! |
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