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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 19:12:09 GMT -5
Yeah, uh...she's definitely not getting a Trish-esque sendoff. She's going to fade into obscurity at this point, and unless something really happens that puts her back into demand, she's not going to reverse that. And what would? How can she compete with Melina and Mickie's combined 17 years of in-ring experience, or their looks or charisma? I don't even think she'd be able to compete with Kelly, who while lacking much skill in the ring or on the mic, is at the very least more over. On RAW she's basically doomed to become a jobber to the other woman heels. On Smackdown? She *might* have a better chance over there but I don't see it as of now. I think you are over rating Melina personally. Her and Mickie aren't botch-free. Also Melina doesn't really get much of face reaction. She is too good a heel to be taken seriously as a face. this mickie IMO is starting to look sloppy in the ring and melina looks kind of rusty since coming back from injury |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 19:19:24 GMT -5
Yeah, uh...she's definitely not getting a Trish-esque sendoff. She's going to fade into obscurity at this point, and unless something really happens that puts her back into demand, she's not going to reverse that. And what would? How can she compete with Melina and Mickie's combined 17 years of in-ring experience, or their looks or charisma? I don't even think she'd be able to compete with Kelly, who while lacking much skill in the ring or on the mic, is at the very least more over. On RAW she's basically doomed to become a jobber to the other woman heels. On Smackdown? She *might* have a better chance over there but I don't see it as of now. I think you are over rating Melina personally. Her and Mickie aren't botch-free. Also Melina doesn't really get much of face reaction. She is too good a heel to be taken seriously as a face. It's not shocking I'd get that accusation sooner or later, but honestly after seeing all of her work (WWE, OVW, and otherwise), I think she's on the tier with the other "serious" woman wrestlers--Beth, Mickie, Victoria, Jillian, Natalya and Victoria are all other examples of what I'm talking about. I don't think any one of them is markedly better or worse of a wrestler than any of the others. They're all very good as far as I'm concerned, and I enjoy watching all of them when they wrestle. And while she and Mickie aren't botch free, they historically cover botches a lot better and can wrestle an all-around more convincing match IMO. They're also significantly less botchy than the "non-wrestler" class of divas, then again that's not saying much. And yes, Melina's more credible as a heel (that's been what she was for the vast majority of her career until her face turn) but personally I see nothing wrong with the reaction she gets. Is it as good as Mickie's? Definitely not. But no woman gets a reaction like Mickie (which is ultimately something that gives James a lot of staying power for a character, even when she's basically just in the slump between pushes), and people are becoming more receptive to her as a face. |
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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 19:20:42 GMT -5
I think you are over rating Melina personally. Her and Mickie aren't botch-free. Also Melina doesn't really get much of face reaction. She is too good a heel to be taken seriously as a face. It's not shocking I'd get that accusation sooner or later, but honestly after seeing all of her work (WWE, OVW, and otherwise), I think she's on the tier with the other "serious" woman wrestlers--Beth, Mickie, Victoria, Jillian, Natalya and Victoria are all other examples of what I'm talking about. I don't think any one of them is markedly better or worse of a wrestler than any of the others. They're all very good as far as I'm concerned, and I enjoy watching all of them when they wrestle. And while she and Mickie aren't botch free, they historically cover botches a lot better and can wrestle an all-around more convincing match IMO. They're also significantly less botchy than the "non-wrestler" class of divas, then again that's not saying much. And yes, Melina's more credible as a heel (that's been what she was for the vast majority of her career until her face turn) but personally I see nothing wrong with the reaction she gets. Is it as good as Mickie's? Definitely not. But no woman gets a reaction like Mickie (which is ultimately something that gives James a lot of staying power for a character, even when she's basically just in the slump between pushes), and people are becoming more receptive to her as a face. i guess you are a fan of melina? |
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The Doctor
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 8, 2009 19:23:55 GMT -5
I've not got anything against Melina. But I don't think it is a fair assumption to say that because she is getting a push that Candice never, ever will again. Eventually there will be a time when the cycle repeats itself and Candice will be in the spotlight again.
People just seem so very happy that she has hit a slump and they are trying to push her out the door. Same happens to all the divas who are perceived of as having 'not done it the right way'. McCool gets hate because of it, Kelly does, Maria does and no one does more than Candice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 19:25:40 GMT -5
It's not shocking I'd get that accusation sooner or later, but honestly after seeing all of her work (WWE, OVW, and otherwise), I think she's on the tier with the other "serious" woman wrestlers--Beth, Mickie, Victoria, Jillian, Natalya and Victoria are all other examples of what I'm talking about. I don't think any one of them is markedly better or worse of a wrestler than any of the others. They're all very good as far as I'm concerned, and I enjoy watching all of them when they wrestle. And while she and Mickie aren't botch free, they historically cover botches a lot better and can wrestle an all-around more convincing match IMO. They're also significantly less botchy than the "non-wrestler" class of divas, then again that's not saying much. And yes, Melina's more credible as a heel (that's been what she was for the vast majority of her career until her face turn) but personally I see nothing wrong with the reaction she gets. Is it as good as Mickie's? Definitely not. But no woman gets a reaction like Mickie (which is ultimately something that gives James a lot of staying power for a character, even when she's basically just in the slump between pushes), and people are becoming more receptive to her as a face. i guess you are a fan of melina? I can't imagine how you could've figured that out before this.  But whether or not I'm a fan of her is not the point of this thread, nor the point of my argument, nor does being so degrade the value of what I'm arguing. But I've just not seen how Candice is supposed to really compete for a spot with the other three women on the show who are the top three faces right now, and that's what I'm saying. It's not like she's "useless" per se, but there's no face jobbers on the show and she's the lowest on the totem pole. Someone has to do it at some point in time (Maria did it 'till she got her Playboy Push), and unless she goes to Smackdown, really, what else is she supposed to do? |
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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 19:25:59 GMT -5
I've not got anything against Melina. But I don't think it is a fair assumption to say that because she is getting a push that Candice never, ever will again. Eventually there will be a time when the cycle repeats itself and Candice will be in the spotlight again. People just seem so very happy that she has hit a slump and they are trying to push her out the door. Same happens to all the divas who are perceived of as having 'not done it the right way'. McCool gets hate because of it, Kelly does, Maria does and no one does more than Candice. McDeadman only gets heat because of who she is a relationship with- if she was dating matt hardy people wouldnt be as harsh- IMO Mccool has improved alot in her ring work but she is just sooooooo boring and talks like a man |
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The Doctor
Dennis Stamp
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Post by The Doctor on Jan 8, 2009 19:28:05 GMT -5
I've not got anything against Melina. But I don't think it is a fair assumption to say that because she is getting a push that Candice never, ever will again. Eventually there will be a time when the cycle repeats itself and Candice will be in the spotlight again. People just seem so very happy that she has hit a slump and they are trying to push her out the door. Same happens to all the divas who are perceived of as having 'not done it the right way'. McCool gets hate because of it, Kelly does, Maria does and no one does more than Candice. McDeadman only gets heat because of who she is a relationship with- if she was dating matt hardy people wouldnt be as harsh- IMO Mccool has improved alot in her ring work but she is just sooooooo boring and talks like a man It's true and I am not a big fan of her. But I think if she was exactly the same wrestler and in a relationship with the same person but had come through the indies, people would be less harsh. |
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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 19:30:48 GMT -5
McDeadman only gets heat because of who she is a relationship with- if she was dating matt hardy people wouldnt be as harsh- IMO Mccool has improved alot in her ring work but she is just sooooooo boring and talks like a man It's true and I am not a big fan of her. But I think if she was exactly the same wrestler and in a relationship with the same person but had come through the indies, people would be less harsh. even if she came through the indies the fact that she is with taker raises the question she only got her job in WWE because taker taped his fists"...i remember someone saying mickie james got her WWE job because she was with joey mercury and he got signed so they gave her a job too |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 19:31:18 GMT -5
I've not got anything against Melina. But I don't think it is a fair assumption to say that because she is getting a push that Candice never, ever will again. I never said that. I said that I just don't see how Candice is supposed to compete with three faces that have her eclipsed, and it's not even like she's over on the same degree as them. Popularity is a major factor for a push in the women's division, and with the other three faces being more popular than her (and, in my opinion, two of them being overall better wrestlers). I don't have anything against her, I just don't think there's really a spot for her to fit in and be a major player as of now, or in the near future over on RAW. Mickie gets pushed off and on against any champ when she isn't, Melina's got the feud with Beth right now and Kelly is becoming the new "flavor," as it were. |
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Post by Melissalicious on Jan 8, 2009 20:17:58 GMT -5
Candice is very well liked backstage so i think if she decides to leave she will get a trish like send off Not even remotely likely. No diva will likely get a "Trish-like send off" - in the present or, probably, the future. Trish was pretty much the definition of a WWE diva, completely over with almost the entirety of the fanbase, and to even consider that Candice could possibly deserve any similar nod or bon voyage is laughable. |
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greeby
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Post by greeby on Jan 8, 2009 20:24:04 GMT -5
The thing that hampered Candice is no effort was made to give her a real character and get her over before she started her push to the title. Mickie had the psycho-lesbian stalker angle with Trish. Melina has the "Hollywood A-lister" gimmick which she fully embraced. Maria had that adorable, ditzy gimmick (Which I grant she probably wouldn't have had if Shawn hadn't picked up on that interview botch). Maryse can do arrogant and "too good for you" better than anybody they've got. Kelly started out with the exhibtionist gimmick, which was a no-brainer when trying to get a girl over with the old-school ECW crowd. Then they switched to having a crush on CM Punk, again a no-brainer as at the time of the angle there were none more over than Punk. Candice has.........................errrrm................uhhhh..........hmmmm  |
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 8, 2009 20:24:20 GMT -5
Candice is very well liked backstage so i think if she decides to leave she will get a trish like send off Not even remotely likely. No diva will likely get a "Trish-like send off" - in the present or, probably, the future. Trish was pretty much the definition of a WWE diva, completely over with almost the entirety of the fanbase, and to even consider that Candice could possibly deserve any similar nod or bon voyage is laughable. And to add to that, they didn't even give Lita a send off like that. And Lita was more over than Candice will ever be. |
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Post by Melissalicious on Jan 8, 2009 20:27:25 GMT -5
Not even remotely likely. No diva will likely get a "Trish-like send off" - in the present or, probably, the future. Trish was pretty much the definition of a WWE diva, completely over with almost the entirety of the fanbase, and to even consider that Candice could possibly deserve any similar nod or bon voyage is laughable. And to add to that, they didn't even give Lita a send off like that. And Lita was more over than Candice will ever be. I was pretty disgusted by Lita's send off, actually. I mean, granted she was a heel at the time, but it just seemed a terrible thing to do. She and Trish did about equal work for the Divas, and while I knew she wasn't get something like Trish ... I dunno. It just seemed disrespectful, even if she did accept it. Funny, sure. But totally just a lame way to end her career. |
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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 20:28:20 GMT -5
Candice is very well liked backstage so i think if she decides to leave she will get a trish like send off Not even remotely likely. No diva will likely get a "Trish-like send off" - in the present or, probably, the future. Trish was pretty much the definition of a WWE diva, completely over with almost the entirety of the fanbase, and to even consider that Candice could possibly deserve any similar nod or bon voyage is laughable. well start laughing because she will get something-it may not be to the magnitude of trish but she will get something if she decides to "retire"..all my opinion of course |
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randomranter
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Post by randomranter on Jan 8, 2009 20:57:15 GMT -5
well start laughing because she will get something-it may not be to the magnitude of trish but she will get something if she decides to "retire"..all my opinion of course If by "something", you mean a blurb on wwe.com that says "World Wrestling Entertainment has come to terms with the release of WWE Diva Candice Michelle. We wish Candice well in her future endeavors", then I agree....she'll get something. Anything beyond that is delusional. |
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Post by David Otunga: Eternian at Law on Jan 8, 2009 21:19:56 GMT -5
Candice can still have a lot of use in WWE, I mean come on she's always been better with the skit part of her job and looking sexy part of her job then actual ring work.
Honestly heel valet would be perfect for her, a spot that has been sorely missed since Sherri left WWE.
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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 21:25:48 GMT -5
And to add to that, they didn't even give Lita a send off like that. And Lita was more over than Candice will ever be. I was pretty disgusted by Lita's send off, actually. I mean, granted she was a heel at the time, but it just seemed a terrible thing to do. She and Trish did about equal work for the Divas, and while I knew she wasn't get something like Trish ... I dunno. It just seemed disrespectful, even if she did accept it. Funny, sure. But totally just a lame way to end her career. i guess WWE didnt want to break kayfabe she did say edge organised a surprise party for her after the show sooo....im not a big lita fan but i respect the way she comtinued and took all the criticism and exploitation that she did.many folk would have asked to be released but she grew a set and dealt with it |
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 8, 2009 21:39:50 GMT -5
The only Divas on the current roster I could see getting anything near a send off like Trish got are Victoria and (if something were to happen God forbid) Mickie and I don't even see them getting anything near that. None of the rest even come close to the fans support or longevity that Trish had.
As for Candice, she needs to go to Smackdown. Her matches could be edited to look better, she could be the top face and, could work a more "diva" style that is less taxing than the style the Beth, Mickie and the rest on RAW seem to have.
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Post by Snitsky on Jan 8, 2009 21:43:12 GMT -5
The only Divas on the current roster I could see getting anything near a send off like Trish got are Victoria and (if something were to happen God forbid) Mickie and I don't even see them getting anything near that. None of the rest even come close to the fans support or longevity that Trish had. As for Candice, she needs to go to Smackdown. Her matches could be edited to look better, she could be the top face and, could work a more "diva" style that is less taxing than the style the Beth, Mickie and the rest on RAW seem to have. doubt victoria would get that....probably backstage |
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Post by Melissalicious on Jan 8, 2009 21:50:43 GMT -5
well start laughing because she will get something-it may not be to the magnitude of trish but she will get something if she decides to "retire"..all my opinion of course If by "something", you mean a blurb on wwe.com that says "World Wrestling Entertainment has come to terms with the release of WWE Diva Candice Michelle. We wish Candice well in her future endeavors", then I agree....she'll get something. Anything beyond that is delusional. Exactly. Candice isn't even comparable to Stacey Keibler or Torrie Wilson, both of whom had been with the business (in one form or another) for a loooonnnngggggg time. Both women barely got a "bye bye" when they left. The most notable thing about her is her entrance and a single Women's Championship reign. |
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