Deleted
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AskaMod
Oct 23, 2018 11:36:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 11:36:40 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 18:16:47 GMT -5
Take this for what it's worth but the decision taken in the Crown Jewell thread is why I think message boards are gradually but surely dying as a form of communication in the face of places like Redit and social media that are a lot more lightly moderated. There was nothing really ostensibly wrong with the discussion except it broke a board-set rule about not discussing politics. Discussing politics by itself isn't egregious or against the proboards terms of service, it's a self-imposed rule introduced to presumably assist with the running of the place that is now directly responsible for shutting down discussion of something simply because it exists.
I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that going back 5 years ago I used to be on a number of different forums, posting quite a lot on a variety of topics: sport, news, wrestling, music. But all of them go the same way, all see moderation as a way of restricting conversation rather than enhancing it. All decide to have arbitrary rules about what can be discussed and what can't, and when what can't be discussed can and when what can be discussed can't. The end result is that it draws people away to places where they can share their opinions on music without breaching the 'no talking about drums on Fridays' rule, or discuss their favourite sports team without being told something is off the table, or discuss the Crown Jewel event and obvious surrounding issues without restriction.
I get the response: free to go elsewhere, etc. But it is sad to see discussion forums moderated to death for no real good reason other than the imposing of a rule that it's entirely elective to have in the first place. The purpose of moderation should be to encourage discussion and traffic about the hot issues. Now what's going to be one of the most talked about wrestling stories of the coming few days is completely off topic on a board that relies primarily on people coming here wanting to talk about wrestling. It doesn't really seem like a sensible solution and it seems to prioritise the entirely self-imposed "No politics rule" even if it patently is at the detriment of the board to impose it.
I'm braced for a backlash for this post, but I do think moderators would do well to remember that self-imposed rules are not legally binding statute and that banning discussion on a discussion board for no other reason than to apply a self-imposed rule is at best muddled.
It's a wrestling event and the choice of venue is a major discussion point. This is a wrestling forum intended to be used for people to discuss wrestling. That really should be all the logic that's applied here but instead it's like that episode of Frasier the brothers plan to establish their own wine club and become excited not for the discussion that could be had about wine, but the rules that could be imposed that they would devise. A major wine tasting event is taking place in the middle east but because for some reason there exists a rule about not discussing events that take place east of Istanbul during months that begin with a vowel (or Clause IX of section XVII of volume VI of 'Rules that exist...for some reason), all discussion of it is banned.
Rules that aid discussion and keep things flowing are one thing, but a rule that ends up restricting discussion and bans people on a wrestling message board talking about the most talked about current news event in wrestling is the Crane brother's imaginary wine club proposals in all its fastidious absurdity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2018 0:58:55 GMT -5
Take this for what it's worth but the decision taken in the Crown Jewell thread is why I think message boards are gradually but surely dying as a form of communication in the face of places like Redit and social media that are a lot more lightly moderated. There was nothing really ostensibly wrong with the discussion except it broke a board-set rule about not discussing politics. Discussing politics by itself isn't egregious or against the proboards terms of service, it's a self-imposed rule introduced to presumably assist with the running of the place that is now directly responsible for shutting down discussion of something simply because it exists. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that going back 5 years ago I used to be on a number of different forums, posting quite a lot on a variety of topics: sport, news, wrestling, music. But all of them go the same way, all see moderation as a way of restricting conversation rather than enhancing it. All decide to have arbitrary rules about what can be discussed and what can't, and when what can't be discussed can and when what can be discussed can't. The end result is that it draws people away to places where they can share their opinions on music without breaching the 'no talking about drums on Fridays' rule, or discuss their favourite sports team without being told something is off the table, or discuss the Crown Jewel event and obvious surrounding issues without restriction. I get the response: free to go elsewhere, etc. But it is sad to see discussion forums moderated to death for no real good reason other than the imposing of a rule that it's entirely elective to have in the first place. The purpose of moderation should be to encourage discussion and traffic about the hot issues. Now what's going to be one of the most talked about wrestling stories of the coming few days is completely off topic on a board that relies primarily on people coming here wanting to talk about wrestling. It doesn't really seem like a sensible solution and it seems to prioritise the entirely self-imposed "No politics rule" even if it patently is at the detriment of the board to impose it. I'm braced for a backlash for this post, but I do think moderators would do well to remember that self-imposed rules are not legally binding statute and that banning discussion on a discussion board for no other reason than to apply a self-imposed rule is at best muddled. It's a wrestling event and the choice of venue is a major discussion point. This is a wrestling forum intended to be used for people to discuss wrestling. That really should be all the logic that's applied here but instead it's like that episode of Frasier the brothers plan to establish their own wine club and become excited not for the discussion that could be had about wine, but the rules that could be imposed that they would devise. A major wine tasting event is taking place in the middle east but because for some reason there exists a rule about not discussing events that take place east of Istanbul during months that begin with a vowel (or Clause IX of section XVII of volume VI of 'Rules that exist...for some reason), all discussion of it is banned. Rules that aid discussion and keep things flowing are one thing, but a rule that ends up restricting discussion and bans people on a wrestling message board talking about the most talked about current news event in wrestling is the Crane brother's imaginary wine club proposals in all its fastidious absurdity. There has never, aside from election threads (which are moderated with extreme vigilance) been political discussion on FAN or WC before it. It hasn't killed this forum in that time. People can't discuss Vince Russo, or Triple H, or Stephanie without getting personal in many cases. Mods had to stop discussion of the Liv/Brie thing because it was becoming a circular argument and again getting personal. Discussion relating to something as serious as the killing of a journalist in KSA with all its political implications when some can't even discuss the people making the choice to go without getting heated is hardly going to go well. It would lead to banning more than those who go elsewhere for discussion with less stringent rules. This place is a haven from all the politicised tension online. It's tolerant, fair and transparent. The rules are clear and laid out from the beginning. The reason this is such a good place for discussion for the most part and the sense of community are due to the no politics rule, not in spite of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 4:21:03 GMT -5
But now we're in a position where rumours of Hogan appearing at a WWE show cannot be discussed on WWE board because in other discussions about the show has included references to its location which have unavoidably lead to reference to the current political situation. It's absurd.
Precisely where are the wrestling forums that are bogged down in party political discussion? I've never, ever found them. Claiming that this place is a haven from political discussion is like claiming that going into Walmat is a haven from all those other stores that are bogged down in perpetual civil war reenactments. It's Homer Simpson's Bear Tax. There isn't a single other wrestling forum that I've ever found that is constantly engrossed in political discussion. This place isn't the exception in that regard at all. Only the other forums manage to do it without their version of the Bear Tax.
When you're modding a forum on wrestling and shutting down discussion on wrestling then you've definitely gone through the looking glass. And that's why forums are dying as sadly too often they have active owners who value above all else making people do what they want even when it's complete illogical and ostensibly counter productive. It's the kid when you were 9 who'd invite you into his tree house but for some reason for a power kick suddenly decided only he was allowed to talk because "It's my treehouse and if you don't like it, get out". That's a large part of the reason why it's very unlikely this place will exist in 5 years time, at least with anywhere near the same level of traffic. It's why chat rooms went. It's why a lot of forums are dying because even though none (to my knowledge) have this specific rule about no politics, they all have their own version of "It's my treehouse and you'll do what I say" regulations that exist for the sole reason of the person who runs/moderates it needs to make up rules and impose them for no reason.
A cursory glance at the archives will show Raw threads from years gone by getting 130-160 pages. Last one? 65. It's not unrelated to the kind of aministration that has decided to ban people on a wrestling show from talking about wrestling because..."I can...". People who run forums are absolutely killing them as a medium because what's important to them is the kick they get making everyone in their treehouse abide by their rules. It's kind of sad when you think of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 4:45:31 GMT -5
But now we're in a position where rumours of Hogan appearing at a WWE show cannot be discussed on WWE board because in other discussions about the show has included references to its location which have unavoidably lead to reference to the current political situation. It's absurd. Precisely where are the wrestling forums that are bogged down in party political discussion? I've never, ever found them. Claiming that this place is a haven from political discussion is like claiming that going into Walmat is a haven from all those other stores that are bogged down in perpetual civil war reenactments. It's Homer Simpson's Bear Tax. There isn't a single other wrestling forum that I've ever found that is constantly engrossed in political discussion. This place isn't the exception in that regard at all. Only the other forums manage to do it without their version of the Bear Tax. When you're modding a forum on wrestling and shutting down discussion on wrestling then you've definitely gone through the looking glass. And that's why forums are dying as sadly too often they have active owners who value above all else making people do what they want even when it's complete illogical and ostensibly counter productive. It's the kid when you were 9 who'd invite you into his tree house but for some reason for a power kick suddenly decided only he was allowed to talk because "It's my treehouse and if you don't like it, get out". That's a large part of the reason why it's very unlikely this place will exist in 5 years time, at least with anywhere near the same level of traffic. It's why chat rooms went. It's why a lot of forums are dying because even though none (to my knowledge) have this specific rule about no politics, they all have their own version of "It's my treehouse and you'll do what I say" regulations that exist for the sole reason of the person who runs/moderates it needs to make up rules and impose them for no reason. You're conflating two things there. Political discussion inevitably gets heated. The fact is people can't discuss wrestling without getting heated at times. How much worse would the political discussion be? This place is a haven in that however politicised some things get, because there is the red line on religion and politics, 1) your view won't be attacked or drawn into an unwanted discussion by someone who feels your opinion is indicative of something bigger that they feel strongly about and 2) topics that would otherwise cause real division among members are off limits. Those rules were part of things when I was a member years ago and theyre part of things now and it's why it's the only forum I've ever been a member of for a sustained period. It's not that the forum would get bogged down in political discussion, it's that political discussion inevitably creates a counter productive environment for an online community. It's escapism, it's supposed to be a fun place, somewhere to get away from those big issues. And apologies mods if I'm overstepping.
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Kyn
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,623
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Post by Kyn on Oct 27, 2018 16:34:14 GMT -5
Claiming that this place is a haven from political discussion is like claiming that going into Walmat is a haven from all those other stores that are bogged down in perpetual civil war reenactments. This made me laugh. It's a great mental image. For what it's worth, sometimes I wish we could discuss political things that relate to wrestling (like Crown Jewel), but we struggle to have a civil conversation here about Apu. So I understand why we can't.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Oct 28, 2018 5:40:20 GMT -5
Yeah, politics and religion, for whatever reason, seem to bring out the absolute worst in people. I have no idea why those are such hot-button issues for people, but you don't have to look far to see how nasty it gets. I actually appreciate this place being the one place online where I don't have to worry about people ripping each other's heads off.
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AskaMod
Oct 28, 2018 7:07:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by The Thread Barbi on Oct 28, 2018 7:07:55 GMT -5
Popups make this site near impossible to browse on mobile. Can anything be done about that? I always post on mobile phone and use Firefox android app with private browsing. Never had a pop-up for a couple of years now.
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,214
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AskaMod
Oct 28, 2018 7:16:18 GMT -5
Kyn likes this
Post by Spider2024 on Oct 28, 2018 7:16:18 GMT -5
Claiming that this place is a haven from political discussion is like claiming that going into Walmat is a haven from all those other stores that are bogged down in perpetual civil war reenactments. This made me laugh. It's a great mental image. For what it's worth, sometimes I wish we could discuss political things that relate to wrestling (like Crown Jewel), but we struggle to have a civil conversation here about Apu. So I understand why we can't. To be fair, I was at a Walmart the other day, and literally no one there even mentioned the civil war.
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Post by Joe Neglia on Oct 28, 2018 15:47:17 GMT -5
Yeah, politics and religion, for whatever reason, seem to bring out the absolute worst in people. I have no idea why those are such hot-button issues for people, but you don't have to look far to see how nasty it gets. I actually appreciate this place being the one place online where I don't have to worry about people ripping each other's heads off. Thank you. That's pretty much the entirety of why we do things the way we do here. I know a lot of the stuff we insist on here is silly, I know it is. But I also know that it's the one thing that keeps this place from turning into yet another Youtube Comments-style place. I want people to be able to come here knowing the most they may have to deal with is someone else not liking their favorite worker, or stuff like that. I based a lot of our system on a message board I was tied to many years ago, one of the largest and most well-known of our type. About two years ago, the owner of that board passed away and the moderators who took over loosened things up greatly. For about two months, it was the wild west, with posters just letting everything out that they wanted. Fighting, flaming, all of it. Total mess. Drove a lot of posters off and now the whole place is a ghost town with maybe 10-20 active threads total each day. I don't want to see that happen here. The Crown Jewel thing is about as unique and bizarre a situation as we've ever had. We are dealing with it as best we can while still retaining the board's standards. I understand a lot of people aren't of the same opinion, but I also understand that on this one, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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AskaMod
Oct 28, 2018 21:37:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 21:37:53 GMT -5
Any way to block a poster altogether?
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MiLB Fan
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,381
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Post by MiLB Fan on Oct 28, 2018 21:44:48 GMT -5
Any way to block a poster altogether? Click on the name of the person you want to block, then on their profile page click the little gear icon on the far right. A “Block Member” option should appear; click on that to block them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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AskaMod
Oct 28, 2018 21:51:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 21:51:49 GMT -5
Any way to block a poster altogether? Click on the name of the person you want to block, then on their profile page click the little gear icon on the far right. A “Block Member” option should appear; click on that to block them. Thank you sir!
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Post by edgestar on Oct 29, 2018 7:54:49 GMT -5
In fairness, a lot of the Raw threads have been like that, lately. It isn't due to "being too strict" with posters. It was just a "saw the same show, last week" thing.
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Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
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Game Center CX Kacho on!
Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on Oct 31, 2018 23:11:16 GMT -5
Yeah, politics and religion, for whatever reason, seem to bring out the absolute worst in people. I have no idea why those are such hot-button issues for people, but you don't have to look far to see how nasty it gets. I actually appreciate this place being the one place online where I don't have to worry about people ripping each other's heads off. Yup, same. It seems like politics somehow gets involved in everything these days. There are so many sites for that. It's nice to have a place where I can make jokes or discuss an opinion without seeing a person's politics first.
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AskaMod
Nov 1, 2018 21:11:57 GMT -5
Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Nov 1, 2018 21:11:57 GMT -5
Yeah, politics and religion, for whatever reason, seem to bring out the absolute worst in people. I have no idea why those are such hot-button issues for people, but you don't have to look far to see how nasty it gets. I actually appreciate this place being the one place online where I don't have to worry about people ripping each other's heads off. Thank you. That's pretty much the entirety of why we do things the way we do here. I know a lot of the stuff we insist on here is silly, I know it is. But I also know that it's the one thing that keeps this place from turning into yet another Youtube Comments-style place. I want people to be able to come here knowing the most they may have to deal with is someone else not liking their favorite worker, or stuff like that. I based a lot of our system on a message board I was tied to many years ago, one of the largest and most well-known of our type. About two years ago, the owner of that board passed away and the moderators who took over loosened things up greatly. For about two months, it was the wild west, with posters just letting everything out that they wanted. Fighting, flaming, all of it. Total mess. Drove a lot of posters off and now the whole place is a ghost town with maybe 10-20 active threads total each day. I don't want to see that happen here. The Crown Jewel thing is about as unique and bizarre a situation as we've ever had. We are dealing with it as best we can while still retaining the board's standards. I understand a lot of people aren't of the same opinion, but I also understand that on this one, I'd rather be safe than sorry. I love that this board is almost entirely free of hot-button issues, but I would like to warn you that I may have to hold FAN liable if I explode due to a buildup of Crown Jewel-related hot takes
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AskaMod
Nov 6, 2018 21:12:56 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Nov 6, 2018 21:12:56 GMT -5
Over in the sports forum can we get a lock on the 2018 MLB Season thread and pin the new Offseason MLB thread?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 21:15:09 GMT -5
Over in the sports forum can we get a lock on the 2018 MLB Season thread and pin the new Offseason MLB thread? Will do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 8:11:07 GMT -5
Similar to last year, can we start an all purpose holiday thread after American Thanksgiving?
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AskaMod
Nov 7, 2018 13:01:11 GMT -5
Post by Mister Pigwell on Nov 7, 2018 13:01:11 GMT -5
Go for it!
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