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Post by Robbymac on Feb 21, 2009 19:38:05 GMT -5
If the brand split were to end today the roster would look like this: Main Eventers: Randy Orton John Cena Batista Triple H Shawn Michaels Edge Jeff Hardy The Undertaker Chris Jericho Upper Midcard: JBL Rey Mysterio Kane Big Show Matt Hardy Mr. Kennedy MVP Umaga Vladimir Kozlov Midcard: Jack Swagger Christian Shelton Benjamin CM Punk William Regal Carlito Primo John Morrison The Miz Cody Rhodes Ted DiBiase Kofi Kingston Mike Knox Santino Marella The Brian Kendrick Chavo Guerrero The Great Khali Evan Bourne Finlay Mark Henry Tommy Dreamer Lower Midcard: Charlie Haas Dolph Ziggler Goldust Jamie Noble JTG Shad Ezekial Festus Jesse Hurricane Helms R-Truth The Boogeyman DJ Gabriel Paul Burchill Ricky Ortiz Tyson Kidd Not to mention I left off guys who aren't used on a consistent basis with the roster currently split into 3 and diva's. It'd be easy to consistently use the main eventers and upper midcard but the rest would immediately be lost in the shuffle and be left with nothing to do but either job or win and get moved up the card making the upper midcard spot overloaded. I know you don't have to use everybody on a weekly basis but if guys are having trouble getting over and moving up the card how are they going to do that with an overcrowded roster while being MIA for periods of time. Actually it would look more like this Main Eventers: Randy Orton John Cena Triple H Edge The Undertaker Upper Midcard: Shawn Michaels Batista Jeff Hardy Chris Jericho Big Show Midcard: JBL Rey Mysterio Kane Matt Hardy Mr. Kennedy MVP Umaga Vladimir Kozlov Jack Swagger Christian Shelton Benjamin CM Punk John Morrison The Miz Cody Rhodes Ted DiBiase Kofi Kingston Mike Knox Santino Marella The Great Khali Evan Bourne Finlay Mark Henry Future Endeavored: Charlie Haas Dolph Ziggler Goldust Jamie Noble JTG Shad Ezekial Festus Jesse Hurricane Helms R-Truth The Boogeyman DJ Gabriel Paul Burchill Ricky Ortiz Tyson Kidd Carlito Primo The Brian Kendrick Chavo Guerrero Tommy Dreamer William Regal |
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Feb 21, 2009 19:40:50 GMT -5
How do you know my last name? Because I read your RAW reports. Your style is distinctive, and I just put two and two together. That said, I as always respect your opinion. I just often disagree with it  |
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Post by Robbymac on Feb 21, 2009 19:45:22 GMT -5
How do you know my last name? Because I read your RAW reports. Your style is distinctive, and I just put two and two together. That said, I as always respect your opinion. I just often disagree with it  I'm not Rob McNew Brother! But he is a friend of mine |
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 21, 2009 19:55:36 GMT -5
If the brand split were to end today the roster would look like this: Main Eventers: Randy Orton John Cena Batista Triple H Shawn Michaels Edge Jeff Hardy The Undertaker Chris Jericho Upper Midcard: JBL Rey Mysterio Kane Big Show Matt Hardy Mr. Kennedy MVP Umaga Vladimir Kozlov Midcard: Jack Swagger Christian Shelton Benjamin CM Punk William Regal Carlito Primo John Morrison The Miz Cody Rhodes Ted DiBiase Kofi Kingston Mike Knox Santino Marella The Brian Kendrick Chavo Guerrero The Great Khali Evan Bourne Finlay Mark Henry Tommy Dreamer Lower Midcard: Charlie Haas Dolph Ziggler Goldust Jamie Noble JTG Shad Ezekial Festus Jesse Hurricane Helms R-Truth The Boogeyman DJ Gabriel Paul Burchill Ricky Ortiz Tyson Kidd Not to mention I left off guys who aren't used on a consistent basis with the roster currently split into 3 and diva's. It'd be easy to consistently use the main eventers and upper midcard but the rest would immediately be lost in the shuffle and be left with nothing to do but either job or win and get moved up the card making the upper midcard spot overloaded. I know you don't have to use everybody on a weekly basis but if guys are having trouble getting over and moving up the card how are they going to do that with an overcrowded roster while being MIA for periods of time. Cut it in half, that's probably who would keep their jobs. I mean, seriously, they have a excretory matter-ton of talent, no way they'd keep them all just to go do house shows at this point. Most of the midcard and lower midcard would likely be sent packing, leaving only the most marketable/over/liked remaining. The way I see it, if they're going to have the number of shows they have now, they need a roster split of some sort. They don't have to have an official "brand split" but they'd have to rotate guys to keep exposure limited. Having a roster split allows them the chance to create stars which you're only going to do with exposure. The main complaints about the way it is now seem to me like they aren't the fault of the actual split, but of the people coming up with the storylines. The split didn't cause it, the people making the show did. That wouldn't change if the split ended, it'd just be dragged across three shows and 14 or so PPV's a year (well, it already is, but you get my point). Of course, it goes without reason that if they cut the number of shows they do, they would certainly end it just out of necessity. Also, the entertainment industry is entirely different now than it was in the 80's and 90's. We have a lot more distractions for our time, a lot more people wanting our attention, and a lot more options with which to spend our time. What created a boom them has no guarantee of doing it today, nor would today's strategies work in a less saturated environment of yore. |
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bretclark
Bubba Ho-Tep
Scrutinize this...
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Post by bretclark on Feb 21, 2009 21:23:39 GMT -5
Why does everything here need to be excretory matter on before it's discussed? I bet you EVERY thread on here about this topic has the same smart arse comment like the one you made by someone with a thousands posts more than you, not actually answering the question. I just ignore them. Normally, people tend to have plenty of balls when there's a keyboard, a monitor, phone line, and a server between them and the people who they direct there "lil comments" at. I'd feel fine with it and hope that it comes soon because let's face it, the brand extension is not doing so well. It's splitting the attention of the audience in a very weird and unproductive way. Plus having 2 champions is like a country having 2 presidents, it is not going to turn out well. The brand split was one of the final straws for WWE as far as me watching religiously. I remember when WCW was around and they had a huge roster, it actually worked out for a time due to the different divisions (World Champ, US Champ, Television Champ, Womens Champ, Cruiserweight Champ, and Tag Team Champs.) and making a big deal out of the titles, especially the whole US Champ being the number one contender for the World Champ (Goldberg anyone??). Plus, when the WWF was on fire (80's Golden Era and Attitude Era.), they had only one brand, instead of 3. - bretclark |
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greeby
Hank Scorpio
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Post by greeby on Feb 21, 2009 22:01:20 GMT -5
Tell you what: I'm gonna set myself a little challenge. I'm at work right now, but when I get home I usually just relax and use my laptop anyway.
I'll pick a week of WWE TV from say, 2000. And I'll go through both Raw and Smackdown and write down who gets how much TV time, and see what I come up with.
Regarding house shows, the worsening economy is going to force them to run less and less anyway.
As for TV. Simple solution, stop having main eventers dominate the TV time. Part of the reason the 80's boom lasted for so long is that they kept TV time for Hogan and others to a minimum. If they're big enough stars, they don't need the time so much
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bretclark
Bubba Ho-Tep
Scrutinize this...
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Post by bretclark on Feb 21, 2009 22:16:15 GMT -5
Regarding house shows, the worsening economy is going to force them to run less and less anyway. Exactly. This brings back memories like nuts. I remember WWF Superstars on Sunday morning back in the 90's, and all it featured were midcard guys beating up jobbers while promoting PPV's and live events and the promo of one of the major stars how they were gonna destroy their opponent. But you are definitely correct, the oversaturation can sometimes do more harm than good. - bretclark |
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 21, 2009 22:32:09 GMT -5
As for TV. Simple solution, stop having main eventers dominate the TV time. Part of the reason the 80's boom lasted for so long is that they kept TV time for Hogan and others to a minimum. If they're big enough stars, they don't need the time so much The entertainment environment was different in the 80's. There were fewer options and fewer distractions for time. "It worked before" doesn't mean it will work now, particularly not when the environment around it has completely changed in the meantime (and not because of wrestling). And I don't know if the economy would force them to run fewer house shows. They're pretty good for making money. They'll cut performers and limit pyro and ballyhoo before they start cutting profitable ventures. |
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Feb 21, 2009 22:40:56 GMT -5
I say don't end the brand split, but unify all the titles.
That way only the champions are important and midcarders like Truth or Carlito are stuck their brand with a reason to improve.
And to answer the OP's question, it would be a bad thing.
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Post by taylorandborland on Feb 22, 2009 0:22:13 GMT -5
Jericho has been World Champion twice and main evented EVERY PAY PER VIEW since Unforgiven. Vince has already soured on him after seeing the ratings during his title run. Jericho isn't long for a main-event slot after the draft. Yes, all pay-per-views. Point is, he doesn't take up much TV time and being who he is, doesn't need build-up. If they went back to a three-show format I wouldn't be surprised if he showed up every other week. An attempt. We can't even call him a potential main-eventer yet. Therefore, he does not count. |
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Post by Hanz Moleman on Feb 22, 2009 0:28:11 GMT -5
The brand split doesn't need to end. Give the first hour or so back to the mid card and tag teams, cut out the excessive main event promos, give time to further the main event story with a short segment, let the wrestling tell the story. My 2 cents.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 13,968
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Feb 22, 2009 1:46:10 GMT -5
PROS:
-Fewer titles with more significance
-Each week gets 2-3 chances to build a feud (which is important when the ppv's are only 4 weeks apart)
-Makes WWE look more like a coherent whole
CONS:
-Even more time given to only a handful of top guys
-Announce teams being thrown together and/or eliminated
-Fewer house shows, meaning fewer ticket sales
-Less incentive to watch each show (i.e. why bother with Smackdown when what happened will just get rehashed on Raw?)
Overall, the bad outweighs the good at this point. I am, however, in favor of combining titles and having floating champions.
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Post by majesty on Feb 22, 2009 2:54:51 GMT -5
They'd need to stop double Smackdown tapings. That alone is why it would be bad. That's a lot less money saved.
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Post by Robbymac on Feb 22, 2009 11:25:10 GMT -5
Why does everything here need to be excretory matter on before it's discussed? I bet you EVERY thread on here about this topic has the same smart arse comment like the one you made by someone with a thousands posts more than you, not actually answering the question. I just ignore them. Normally, people tend to have plenty of balls when there's a keyboard, a monitor, phone line, and a server between them and the people who they direct there "lil comments" at. Irony I'm not sure I'd use late 90's WCW as an example of huge combined roster working. |
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Feb 22, 2009 13:35:35 GMT -5
I don't think it would be a disaster if the brand split ended. The last two "boom periods" (80's era, Attitude Era) only had one brand. Sure a lot of people would lose their job initially when the split ended, but in this economy, people everywhere lose their jobs every day. I lost a job last summer for that reason. But you move on.
I'll admit that around 2004 or so when the brand split was still new, WWE did a great job of keeping Raw and Smackdown separate and it really did seem like two distinct shows. But nowadays there is so much crossover between the 3 brands, I don't view it as 3 distinct shows really. It's essentially all just a single WWE to me at this point.
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Post by OGBoardPoster2005 on Feb 22, 2009 15:39:37 GMT -5
I miss stables, simply put. I love the idea of stables like The Corporation, The Ministry, D-Generation X(1998-1999), and the older ones. We need more like that.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Feb 22, 2009 15:52:09 GMT -5
The split exist because it was an extension of the touring groups.
I see no problem with the way things are, and I've been a fan for a long time.
I don't get people wanting to scrap ECW and Smackdown, because most likely they don't watch the shows and it wouldn't have an affect on what they watch. However I and other fans watch all 3 brands and would be heavily affected by the cancellation of 2 wwe shows.
Hell right now when people hear "Smackdown" they think of wrestling, much more than monday night raw.
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Post by Fantozzi on Feb 22, 2009 17:21:34 GMT -5
Like communism, the Brand extension only works in theory. Certain wrestlers have benefited as far as card placement goes, but all you have to do is look back to WWE's past to see a huge FULL roster of talent STILL being better utilized in some capacity. The biggest mystery to me as a fan, is the strange belief that a unified roster can't work. People forget that there was a much larger combined roster in 1987-1989, and even 2000, and that like today, they still did two (sometimes three) cards a day, featuring certain key talent on each show. As for the great phantom bogeyman that is "midcarders being released". There's no proof to that. In the 80's and even Attitude era, midcarders were actually better utilized; being made into tag teams (not just the same 2 teams fighting every week) or put into the Intercontinental title division. They had more of a role. And had a place where they could shine. Not everyone can be World Champion, people. Every leading man needs a set of supporting actors. I mean, all you have to do is pop in a video of Survivor series '88, and watch the opening tag match which had 20 men in one match, to see that their roster was stacked. And that was ONE match. Now take a look at the pathetic slew of shmoes that come out whenever a GM calls the full roster to the ring. There's like maybe 20 guys total. It's really sad. That said, I have yet to ever have anyone explain to me how or why the way they run things now is better. Not logically. There's a certain line of paranoid propaganda spewed, but its always just unproven lip-service. WWE's own history refutes it. What, it's better, because, a Rey Mysterio got a World Title reign? Well, it was a lousy reign that was sabotauged right from the beginning. Because Orton & Cena may have never gotten over? What, like the way midcarders Warrior & Savage & Austin, HHH, Foley & Rock never got a chance? How guys like Benoit, Punk & Eddie would have been relegated to the IC title? What, like Bret Hart & HBK? Come on, people. Take the WWE goggles off for a second. Today's brand extension Title reigns are like gold stars for retards. They'll give you one for just showing up and trying. When you were on top of a combined roster, you really were on top. So, you can love the Brand split all you want, but to say a combined roster could never work is just ignorant. Go watch WWE 24/7 and tell me I'm wrong. QFT i'll add that what i don't like of the last few years is not having THE champion |
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
Posts: 4,666
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Post by Hanzo on Feb 22, 2009 18:33:41 GMT -5
I've never really liked it, but I think I'm finally starting to accept it. It's not so much the brand split that bothers me anymore as much as it is there being two of every title (World, IC/US, Tag, Womens). That irks me to no end.
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Post by VengeanceGOD on Feb 22, 2009 18:39:49 GMT -5
It would be bad. Very bad. Right now we have space for new people to be made into stars, even in the current model of guys staying on top for a ridiculously long time. With the brand split over, that wouldn't happen unless we had another Stone Cold, a number one guy who is incredibly injury prone.  |
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