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Post by lockedontarget on Aug 11, 2009 15:26:02 GMT -5
If youAlso I think this is pretty stupid that suplex wasn't even bad, guys in Japan take ones 100 times more dangerous and pop up like it's nothing. There's a difference between expecting it or not, though. Guys in Japan know what kind of bump they'll be taking on it and are prepared. The move is intentionally done that way. This was a case where the move was botched.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 15:29:34 GMT -5
If youAlso I think this is pretty stupid that suplex wasn't even bad, guys in Japan take ones 100 times more dangerous and pop up like it's nothing. There's a difference between expecting it or not, though. Guys in Japan know what kind of bump they'll be taking on it and are prepared. The move is intentionally done that way. This was a case where the move was botched. He lands flat, he doesn't jacknife into the mat. He landed a bit to the side which some guys have actually done as a planned move. Orton likely wasn't expecting it but at the same time the end result was nothing that was going to injure anyone. It was probably a little stiff and different from a typical WWE suplex but it's nothing to get this bent out of shape about. Basically in the end I think this move is way to light for a guy who is a pro wrestler to get this worked up over.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 11, 2009 15:36:13 GMT -5
Considering how important trust is in wrestling, I don't think he is over-reacting. You can't trust a guy in the ring, why would you want to work with him?
Also, there's a laundry list of guys who had complaints about Kennedy. Maybe if it was a one off you could give him another chance, but if this keeps happening, what are WWE supposed to do?
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 11, 2009 15:39:54 GMT -5
I can understand Ortons concern, but from his reaction and everything it makes it sound like Kennedy did a Dr. Death style Backdrop Driver to him or something.
Also, anyone kinda find it funny that he is complaining after what happened to Jericho last night? That looked just as bad, if not worse.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 15:42:21 GMT -5
I don't exactly think it's Kennedy's fault Cena ripped his pec muscle wrestling him.
The thing with Guerrero isn't that surprising since he was new at the time.
But I think sometimes things do get overblown. Everyone f***s up and everyone has likely been working with someone that happened to get injured.
He worked a program with Taker with nothing happening nothing like this came of his entire Smackdown tenure it only happened once he was moved to Raw...
The truth to all of this is alot closer to the middle than likely being portrayed by either company but it's pretty obvious he had a lot of people working Raw that did not care for him at all and that could be for any number of reasons.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 15:43:44 GMT -5
I can understand Ortons concern, but from his reaction and everything it makes it sound like Kennedy did a Dr. Death style Backdrop Driver to him or something. Also, anyone kinda find it funny that he is complaining after what happened to Jericho last night? That looked just as bad, if not worse. Exactly, you'd think Kennedy busted out the sickest backdrop driver ever seen. Well hey maybe they should go get Orton fired, he took a spinebuster when H blew a quad..and now this he's obviously not safe to work with.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 11, 2009 15:46:44 GMT -5
I don't exactly think it's Kennedy's fault Cena ripped his pec muscle wrestling him. The thing with Guerrero isn't that surprising since he was new at the time. But I think sometimes things do get overblown. Everyone f***s up and everyone has likely been working with someone that happened to get injured. He worked a program with Taker with nothing happening nothing like this came of his entire Smackdown tenure it only happened once he was moved to Raw... The truth to all of this is alot closer to the middle than likely being portrayed by either company but it's pretty obvious he had a lot of people working Raw that did not care for him at all and that could be for any number of reasons. Alvarez made a good point: when was the last time the main eventers in WWE got together and flat out told management they didn't want to wrestle this guy? I have no doubt WWE is a political place, but that just doesn't happen, unless the guy is really, really bad. Kennedy seems to have convinced himself it's because he was a star and they were threatened by him, but considering I've seen matches where his opponent will get visibly pissed off at him, it's far more likely he's deluding himself.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 15:49:10 GMT -5
I know he uses RVD as an example but the difference is..they all hated working with him too just they were never going to fire RVD.
RVD no matter what they did was always over and people cared. Kennedy had been hurt alot so people were kinda meh, so it's a different situation.
Also a ton of guys got that whole "they don't know how to work thing" while being in the WWE.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 11, 2009 15:52:08 GMT -5
I don't exactly think it's Kennedy's fault Cena ripped his pec muscle wrestling him. The thing with Guerrero isn't that surprising since he was new at the time. But I think sometimes things do get overblown. Everyone f***s up and everyone has likely been working with someone that happened to get injured. He worked a program with Taker with nothing happening nothing like this came of his entire Smackdown tenure it only happened once he was moved to Raw... The truth to all of this is alot closer to the middle than likely being portrayed by either company but it's pretty obvious he had a lot of people working Raw that did not care for him at all and that could be for any number of reasons. Alvarez made a good point: when was the last time the main eventers in WWE got together and flat out told management they didn't want to wrestle this guy? I have no doubt WWE is a political place, but that just doesn't happen, unless the guy is really, really bad. Kennedy seems to have convinced himself it's because he was a star and they were threatened by him, but considering I've seen matches where his opponent will get visibly pissed off at him, it's far more likely he's deluding himself. I dont really like Kennedy at all. I just think the backdrop excuse is pretty weak. Wrestlers stiff each other all the time, intentionally and unintentionally. Hell, Brock Lesnar dropped Bob Holly right on his head and didn't get fired or depushed for it.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 11, 2009 15:52:49 GMT -5
RVD was just busting guys open, Kennedy was quite clumsy and wrestlers must have felt they were at serious risk.
Look if you've got a whole roster of main eventers pissed off at you, and still make no effort to improve, then you've got problems.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 15:54:04 GMT -5
RVD was just busting guys open, Kennedy was quite clumsy and wrestlers must have felt they were at serious risk. Look if you've got a whole roster of main eventers pissed off at you, and still make no effort to improve, then you've got problems. RVD came about an inch from killing Triple H in the elimination chamber... In the end like the other post says this is all pretty weak, it's like all these guys wanted him gone and as soon as he did something for them to all complain they did it.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 11, 2009 15:59:32 GMT -5
RVD was just busting guys open, Kennedy was quite clumsy and wrestlers must have felt they were at serious risk. Look if you've got a whole roster of main eventers pissed off at you, and still make no effort to improve, then you've got problems. RVD came about an inch from killing Triple H in the elimination chamber... In the end like the other post says this is all pretty weak, it's like all these guys wanted him gone and as soon as he did something for them to all complain they did it. There are probably a lot of reasons why they wanted to get rid of him. Probably a buildup of things. I dont believe it was because they felt their spots threatened or anything. Probably he was just disliked personally. All I am saying is, if that is the case, say so. Cos making it just about one backdrop that didn't go perfectly is petty at best, suspect at worst. Spots dont always go perfectly, wrestlers accidentally hurt each other or themselves quite often. Its why one of Bret Harts biggest claims is that he never injured himself or anyone else in the ring. He often says that he is the only wrestler he knows of that can make that claim.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 16:03:13 GMT -5
I'm not remotely saying it's because they felt their spots were threatened, it just seems like a petty dislike to me that these guys had of him and as soon as they saw a chance they made the play to get rid of him.
I will never understand how that suplex got blown up to this big of a deal.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 11, 2009 16:03:21 GMT -5
RVD was just busting guys open, Kennedy was quite clumsy and wrestlers must have felt they were at serious risk. Look if you've got a whole roster of main eventers pissed off at you, and still make no effort to improve, then you've got problems. RVD came about an inch from killing Triple H in the elimination chamber... In the end like the other post says this is all pretty weak, it's like all these guys wanted him gone and as soon as he did something for them to all complain they did it.You sound like Kennedy. It's a big conspiracy. When freaking Cena- probably one of the nicest, most laid back guys in wrestling complains about you- you know you're a bad wrestler. Kennedy was clumsy, he sandbagged guys, stiff people and then acted like he did nothing wrong -he's still blaming Orton for the suplex. The botched suplex was the final straw, not the only reason. If it has just been that, it likely would have been forgotten. But he'd been pissing off people for years with that stuff. And seemed to make no effort to change or improve his style. RVD got safer over time, at least.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 16:06:22 GMT -5
Conspiracy? All I said was it seems to me that they personally didn't like him. I didn't say they feared for their spots.
And I don't care how nice Cena is, not everyone gets a long, we don't personally know him.
"Pissing people off for years" there you go. They took a pretty petty suplex incident and blew it up out of proportion to get rid of this guy they didn't like.
If that suplex is the worst thing that happens to Orton he should consider himself lucky, it's not nearly the big deal it's made out to be. For all that's been made of it Kennedy should have backdrop drivered him in Steve Williams style.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 11, 2009 16:07:03 GMT -5
RVD came about an inch from killing Triple H in the elimination chamber... In the end like the other post says this is all pretty weak, it's like all these guys wanted him gone and as soon as he did something for them to all complain they did it.You sound like Kennedy. It's a big conspiracy. When freaking Cena- probably one of the nicest, most laid back guys in wrestling complains about you- you know you're a bad wrestler. Kennedy was clumsy, he sandbagged guys, stiff people and then acted like he did nothing wrong -he's still blaming Orton for the suplex. The botched suplex was the final straw, not the only reason. If it has just been that, it likely would have been forgotten. But he'd been pissing off people for years with that stuff. And seemed to make no effort to change or improve his style. RVD got safer over time, at least. Likely so. However, it makes me ask the question of why Kennedy was continually given so much of a push if he was that dangerous and unreliable in the ring.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 16:09:37 GMT -5
You sound like Kennedy. It's a big conspiracy. When freaking Cena- probably one of the nicest, most laid back guys in wrestling complains about you- you know you're a bad wrestler. Kennedy was clumsy, he sandbagged guys, stiff people and then acted like he did nothing wrong -he's still blaming Orton for the suplex. The botched suplex was the final straw, not the only reason. If it has just been that, it likely would have been forgotten. But he'd been pissing off people for years with that stuff. And seemed to make no effort to change or improve his style. RVD got safer over time, at least. Likely so. However, it makes me ask the question of why Kennedy was continually given so much of a push if he was that dangerous and unreliable in the ring. Also if he was such a horrendous worker he worked a 3 month program with Taker.. Wouldn't Taker have basically ended any shot of him ever getting a big push right there if he was that bad? But that didn't happen hell Kennedy has nothing but high words for Taker.. It's not like this guy just railed on the entire roster or every big name guy. It's all a very weird situation, I don't think Kennedy is nearly this shit house worker he's being portrayed as in this situation.
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Post by CrazySting on Aug 11, 2009 16:11:38 GMT -5
You sound like Kennedy. It's a big conspiracy. When freaking Cena- probably one of the nicest, most laid back guys in wrestling complains about you- you know you're a bad wrestler. Kennedy was clumsy, he sandbagged guys, stiff people and then acted like he did nothing wrong -he's still blaming Orton for the suplex. The botched suplex was the final straw, not the only reason. If it has just been that, it likely would have been forgotten. But he'd been pissing off people for years with that stuff. And seemed to make no effort to change or improve his style. RVD got safer over time, at least. Likely so. However, it makes me ask the question of why Kennedy was continually given so much of a push if he was that dangerous and unreliable in the ring. He was charismatic, had a good look, and was great on the mic and they don't have many new guys like that anymore. That's probably why they stuck with him as long as they did.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 16:12:45 GMT -5
If he was as awful as he's being portrayed as being they would have pulled him out of the ring no matter how charismatic he is...
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Aug 11, 2009 16:16:33 GMT -5
There is no way to pinpoint what got him fired, as it was probably a combination of things. Guys not wanting to work with him, him being hurt, his drug controversy, etc. I'm sure this last run, he was on pretty thin ice, and it didn't take long for him to 'screw up' in the eyes of management.
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