When fans lose touch with wrestling.

[Ragnal]

So, I had a conversation with a woman from another forum, and she really seemed to favor the old school days of wrestling. From what I gathered:

-She claims CM Punk is "boring", and is no Brock Lesnar
-Kennedy has no charisma
-What happens outside the promotion shouldn't affect their jobs in the promotion (Discussion between Kurt and Rey's recent incidents)
-Larry Zybysko is the best becuase he had charisma, and not because he was Verne Gagne's son-in-law

So, I ask...is this a bad thing? For people to be out of the loop and look back at the old days and even deny that at least today certain wrestlers really are that good? I'm one to allow opinions, but...the deal with Punk and Kurt just bugs me...

[Bubble Lead]

I can see why she would think Punk is boring. Until the Hardy feud, I found him bland and dull. Considering I liked him in ROH, that is saying something.

I also agree that outside incidents shouldn't affect their status in the company. Within reason, of course. Getting pulled over for a suspended license or getting caught with a DUI or whatever isn't a big deal. Too many people live in a wrestling bubble and think the outside world actually gives a shit about what these guys do in their off time. Newsflash: wrestling aint football. The average joe or the mainstream media could give two craps if RVD was driving around smoking pot while champion.

[Dean-o]

I think, at least with me sometimes, is that i've been watching for 20 years non-stop. That's ALOT of wrestling. I've seen so much, ups and downs, that sometimes it's hard for me to get excited anymore. I try my hardest, and I support every wrestler on the roster for busting their ass day in and day out, but yea...it's hard sometimes.

[Bob Schlapowitz]

DeanNJN, you hit the nail on the head. I've been watching for close to 25 years, and sometimes I wonder if there's anything left for me to get excited about.

[blackribbon]

I am in the minority.

But I have seen so much wrestling and gotten so bored of the matches I just skip to the finishers.

Only time I get interested is when they have a huge match (HBK vs Taker) .... Just too much wrestling in 1 week

[b1gjames]

Sept 1, 2009 23:27:49 GMT -5 Bubble Lead said:

I also agree that outside incidents shouldn't affect their status in the company. Within reason, of course. Getting pulled over for a suspended license or getting caught with a DUI or whatever isn't a big deal. Too many people live in a wrestling bubble and think the outside world actually gives a s*** about what these guys do in their off time. Newsflash: wrestling ain't football. The average Joe or the mainstream media could give two craps if RVD was driving around smoking pot while champion.

But that incident was pre-Benoit, and yes, I know the whole Benoit thing is a dead horse.

But ever since the Benoit incident, some people in the media could be/are looking for any and every reason to badmouth "mean old Vince McMahon."

And yes I know that Angle is currently in TNA and not a member of WWE anymore but do you really think anybody in the media gives two shits about facts.

Especially now that Vince is trying to market WWE as being PG. The last thing he would want is for Nancy Grace to get hold of the fact that Rey Mysterio got caught using steroids (if that is indeed what his wellness violation was, I have heard so many different stories that I am not sure what is true and what isn't) and didn't receive any form of punishment.

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

Sept 1, 2009 23:36:37 GMT -5 Dean-o said:

I think, at least with me sometimes, is that i've been watching for 20 years non-stop. That's ALOT of wrestling. I've seen so much, ups and downs, that sometimes it's hard for me to get excited anymore. I try my hardest, and I support every wrestler on the roster for busting their ass day in and day out, but yea...it's hard sometimes.

This, combined with the spiffy rose tinted glasses that myself and many others who have watched for years tend to have on. And I'm not saying that like it's a bad thing, but when you have damn near 20 years of watching wrestling, it's harder to impress.

[Bubble Lead]

Sept 1, 2009 23:40:47 GMT -5 b1gjames said:

Sept 1, 2009 23:27:49 GMT -5 Bubble Lead said:

I also agree that outside incidents shouldn't affect their status in the company. Within reason, of course. Getting pulled over for a suspended license or getting caught with a DUI or whatever isn't a big deal. Too many people live in a wrestling bubble and think the outside world actually gives a s*** about what these guys do in their off time. Newsflash: wrestling ain't football. The average Joe or the mainstream media could give two craps if RVD was driving around smoking pot while champion.

But that incident was pre-Benoit, and yes, I know the whole Benoit thing is a dead horse.

But ever since the Benoit incident, some people in the media could be/are looking for any and every reason to badmouth "mean old Vince McMahon."

And yes I know that Angle is currently in TNA and not a member of WWE anymore but do you really think anybody in the media gives two s***s about facts.

Especially now that Vince is trying to market WWE as being PG. The last thing he would want is for Nancy Grace to get hold of the fact that Rey Mysterio got caught using steroids (if that is indeed what his wellness violation was, I have heard so many different stories that I am not sure what is true and what isn't) and didn't receive any form of punishment.

If anyone in the media really cared about these things, TNA would be getting roasted right now.

Short of a wrestler killing someone again, the media isn't going to care.

[Lancers]

I made this point in another thread. My mentality pertaining to wrestling has changed dramatically since the days when I actually thought the stuff was real (I was 19 years old when I figured it out ) When you watch something for over 20 years, you see pretty much everything it can offer like "The Simpsons".

I probably watch about 15 minutes of RAW and I don't watch ANYTHING else wrestling-related. In fact, THIS is the place I usually get my information from regarding the WWE. Nowadays, I'm all about MMA. Hell, I even watch the WEC on Versus every now and then. But I'm not trying to make this a MMA vs. wrestling debate, because they're different types of entertainment. I feel it's become a natural progression for me.

I wouldn't say I'm through with wrestling, but I almost feel like there's nothing that can be done to excite me or make me feel the way I did when my mother and aunt would take me to the house shows at the Rosemont Horizon in Chicago back in the late 80s/early 90s. My aunt knew one of the stadium's promoters so I was incredibly lucky to go backstage and have my picture taken with guys like Hulk Hogan, the Ultimate Warrior, the Macho Man, the Road Warriors and bunch of others (my mother has the visual evidence, I should get them from her and upload them here some time).

Yet, I don't see any reason to complain. I've enjoyed this product longer than a quite a few of you here were even born. If I'm not engaged by it (and I'm not these days), I flip the channel and watch something else. I know it's virtually impossible to recapture the magic of those days with today's current product, even if I wanted to. So, whatever the WWE does or decides to do, it's fine with me. They've given me so many positive memories that I have for the rest of my life.

[Dub H]

Ok

In rign Kennedy..............KENNEDY! is a bad wrestler

But say he has no charisma?!

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

Sept 2, 2009 0:07:34 GMT -5 Lancers said:

I made this point in another thread. My mentality pertaining to wrestling has changed dramatically since the days when I actually thought the stuff was real (I was 19 years old when I figured it out ) When you watch something for over 20 years, you see pretty much everything it can offer like "The Simpsons" for example.

I probably watch about 15 minutes of RAW and I don't watch ANYTHING else wrestling-related. In fact, THIS is the place I usually get my information from regarding the WWE. Nowadays, I'm all about MMA. Hell, I even watch the WEC on Versus every now and then. I'm not trying to make this a MMA vs. wrestling debate, because they're different types of entertainment. But I feel it's become a natural progression for me.

I wouldn't say I'm through with wrestling, but I almost feel like there's nothing that can be done to excite me or make me feel the way I did when my mother and aunt would take me to the house shows at the Rosemont Horizon in Chicago back in the late 80s/early 90s. My aunt knew one of the stadium's promoters so I was incredibly lucky to go backstage and have my picture taken with guys like Hulk Hogan, the Ultimate Warrior, the Macho Man, the Road Warriors and bunch of others (my mother has the visual evidence, I should get them from her and upload them here some time).

Yet, I don't see any reason to complain. I've enjoyed this product longer than a quite a few of you here were even born. If I'm not engaged by it (and I'm not these days), I flip the channel and watch something else. I have the memories and the photos to remember those days when I did love the show. And I know I'll never be able to re-create those days with today's current product, even if I wanted to. So, whatever the WWE does or decides to do, it's fine with me.

See, I feel the same way about alot of what you've said. If I'm home, I'll watch Raw, if not then check the results. Don't really care one way or the other. Smackdown I do try to watch, but only really pay attention to the 1 or 2 big matches they have each week.


Plus, like you mentioned, MMA has taken the place of alot of wrestling for me. The way I follow UFC etc. now, is the way I used to follow wrestling, and the way I used to follow UFC and MMA is the way I follow wrestling now.

I'll always be a wrestling fan, but I'll likely never be as hardcore of a fan as I once was. I mean, even 2-3 years ago it took alot to get me to skip Raw, but now even the awesomeness of SmackDown I don't feel too bad if I miss.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Sept 1, 2009 23:27:49 GMT -5 Bubble Lead said:

I can see why she would think Punk is boring. Until the Hardy feud, I found him bland and dull. Considering I liked him in ROH, that is saying something.

I also agree that outside incidents shouldn't affect their status in the company. Within reason, of course. Getting pulled over for a suspended license or getting caught with a DUI or whatever isn't a big deal. Too many people live in a wrestling bubble and think the outside world actually gives a s*** about what these guys do in their off time. Newsflash: wrestling aint football. The average joe or the mainstream media could give two craps if RVD was driving around smoking pot while champion.

Right, but it's the people within the wrestling bubble you have to protect from outside incidents. Back when Shiek and Duggan got caught with drugs, while in a heavy feud, it killed everything they did together.

When Flair was in the plane class Mr. Wrestling III didn't even break kayfabe from the rescue cue. It was that important. If they found out a heel and a face were in the same plane, it would have killed the territory.

Now, I know it's the the same anymore. RVD getting busted for pot and shirtless driving isn't going to harm him or the product at all, especially when your character advertises the fact he loves him some pot

It is because the outside media doesn't care that these things should affect the wrestler in house. Now, I don't agree stripping RVD of his titles was the correct decision, but something had to do be done.

I've been a fan for 20 years now. I feel like I'm passed the point of being heavily involved. I can watch the new stuff or I don't. It doesn't bother me. I can' imagine how anyone can keep up with the product in its current form. 3 rosters, about 8 TV shows, monthly PPVs.....I can't afford the time or the cash to keep up.

[willywonka666]

I guess I fell out of touch a few years ago and I finally decided to quit watching it altogether rather than watch something I didn't think was that good, or wrestlers I couldn't connect with, So yea, I kinda agree with your friend on some parts of what she said and that's why I quit.

[Deleted]

I've been watching wrestling for 20+ years as well (with breaks for a few years here and there and a big one from 2001-2007) and I think of it the same way I think of music.

Yeah, a lot of stuff is recycled and yeah the "gold ol' days" were supposedly better, but I have to admit I think we do look at it with rose-colored glasses.

I watched the Flair vs Magnum TA match on the Rise and Fall of WCW match and then right after watched Punk vs. Hardy in the cage on FNSD.

Flair was great in his day, but wrestling today is light years ahead of what it was back then in my opinion.

It just keeps getting better and better with the addition of different styles and even the indy influence on major promotions.

[AriadosMan]

Sept 2, 2009 10:38:14 GMT -5 @personman01 said:

I've been watching wrestling for 20+ years as well (with breaks for a few years here and there and a big one from 2001-2007) and I think of it the same way I think of music.

Yeah, a lot of stuff is recycled and yeah the "gold ol' days" were supposedly better, but I have to admit I think we do look at it with rose-colored glasses.

I watched the Flair vs Magnum TA match on the Rise and Fall of WCW match and then right after watched Punk vs. Hardy in the cage on FNSD.

Flair was great in his day, but wrestling today is light years ahead of what it was back then in my opinion.

It just keeps getting better and better with the addition of different styles and even the indy influence on major promotions.

I also like the MMA influence on things like "Tale of the Tape" (which WWE seems to be using incorporating) and some wrestlers' movesets.

[Big BosskMan]

-Larry Zybysko is the best becuase he had charisma, and not because he was Verne Gagne's son-in-law

This woman you have communicated with, does she seriously believe this?

Great googlymoogly, Zybysko was awful. You could time the amount of stalling he did in his matches with a sundial.

[AriadosMan]

Wasn't Zbysko one of the most notable cases of a nepotism push overall? I know Eric Watts and all, but Zbysko seems particularly glaring.

[Ragnal]

Sept 2, 2009 11:02:21 GMT -5 AriadosMan said:

Wasn't Zbysko one of the most notable cases of a nepotism push overall? I know Eric Watts and all, but Zbysko seems particularly glaring.

I've said it before, but part of the reason Zbysko was pushed was because he was Verne's son-in-law, and wanted to put the family at the top of the promotion. But if Verne had his way, Greg would have been winning the AWA title at some point, but because promoters nixed the idea of Greg as champion, he had to make a belt specially just for him. Kinda sad given I heard he wasn't too bad a wrestler.

[hbk4ever09]

It's interesting...when i was a kid i used to think "what is WWE going to do when they run out of things to do?". I guess i didn't understand the whole bringing in new guys things, and never thought people would leave at that age. But it's odd...i stopped watching wrestling for like 5/6 yrs about 2003-to right before the most recent royal rumble. I was just so bored of EVERYTHING. I could basically predict every match, Baitsta and JBL annoyed me as champs (before JBL got good, appearantly).

I recently got re-hooked right before royal rumble (like the week before) and then started watching TNa and it's ALREADY getting boring again. I loved it at first because i had no idea who would any matches in either promotion, it makes the sport so much better. I got to learn new guys like Kofi, Swagger, MVP, Punk. But i already feel like im losing touch, and better off starting to follow ROH where i could see good matches and don't know who's going to win.

[destrucity]

Sept 2, 2009 11:02:21 GMT -5 AriadosMan said:

Wasn't Zbysko one of the most notable cases of a nepotism push overall? I know Eric Watts and all, but Zbysko seems particularly glaring.

No. With the exception of 1989, his whole career had nothing to do with being a Gagne.

Prior to marrying into the Gagne family he was a PWI rookie of the year and had a huge feud with Bruno that culminated in a huge cage match at Shea Stadium. He married into the Gagne family in 1988 while wrestling for the NWA, which was after his first huge run in the AWA (85-87). When he returned to the company in '89 (this time as a member of the family), he won the title but in all fairness was the only main event caliber talent in the company that wouldn't be taken by Vince as soon as he won the title. After leaving the AWA, he was put into the Dangerous Alliance and his feud with the group only ended due to a leg injury. He then had a successful run as a commentator and then transitioned into a long running role in TNA.