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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2009 18:02:43 GMT -5
Quick question for some of the gore Torture Porn guys I'm getting my sister some horror movies for Christmas (Yeah, I know, very christmassy lol) and she likes the gore stuff like SAW/Hostel and she was wanting a couple of flicks along those lines for Christmas (I'm telling you guys, she's nuts.....I lock all my doors at night...........And she doesn't even stay with me ) Seriously though, I'm looking for a couple of flicks along those lines, them apart obviously since she's seen them a few times. Any ideas from the masters?
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Post by Rorschach on Nov 18, 2009 18:07:00 GMT -5
Quick question for some of the gore guys I'm getting my sister some horror movies for Christmas (Yeah, I know, very christmassy lol) and she likes the gore stuff like SAW/Hostel and she was wanting a couple of flicks along those lines for Christmas (I'm telling you guys, she's nuts.....I lock all my doors at night...........And she doesn't even stay with me ) Seriously though, I'm looking for a couple of flicks along those lines, them apart obviously since she's seen them a few times. Any ideas from the masters? I've got some suggestions, but first: how gory can she handle? I mean, does she like over the top stuff like Tokyo Shock? Cause if she does, there can be no better gift than Noboro Iguchi's MACHINE GIRL. All the gore, guts, and schoolgirls kicking ass you could ever want and then some. If she likes serious gore (SRS GRE?) then the French masterpiece of shock INSIDE might be more up her alley. If you're feeling sadistic, you might get her a copy of EDEN LAKE. That's plenty gory, but....well....it's not the nicest of films. It has a mean streak a mile wide, let me warn you in advance. Has she seen AUDITION? She may like that as well.
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Nov 18, 2009 18:13:13 GMT -5
Hey R-Man, speaking of Machine Girl, I rented it on Monday and my friend came over today to watch it with me. Instead he ended up taking a nap on my couch for 3 hours and then had to go into a meeting so we didn't even watch it. lol
Also anyone that likes gore needs to check out the unrated version of Dead-Alive aka Brain Dead.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2009 18:13:19 GMT -5
Just really along the lines of SAW & Hostel were the parameters given to me
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Nov 18, 2009 18:15:45 GMT -5
See I think she means more or less torturous movies than gore movies then, because honestly, the Saw movies really aren't that gorey compared to most things I've seen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2009 18:19:06 GMT -5
See I think she means more or less torturous movies than gore movies then, because honestly, the Saw movies really aren't that gorey compared to most things I've seen. Yeah that was more my choice of word, she just said "Like SAW or Hostel" I was originally going to say Torture Porn cause I heard that used to descibe Hostel once but then I just got lazy and typed gore lol
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Post by tap on Nov 18, 2009 19:10:29 GMT -5
Part 2: "Her masochist pleasure becomes amplified during the hotel room scene when Esther bathes her face in her own blood emanating from her leg. This bleeding is equivalent to representations of orgasm in hardcore pornographic films. However, to classify the scene itself as pornographic is ambiguous, given how de Van portrays the role of Esther, wrote the screenplay, and directed the film: Esther/de Van does not submit to the dominant social order (meaning, in some sense, the split between the character and director open up possible feminist readings). If one considers de Van's performance and direction of masochism as pornographic or exploitative, one should be clear to define what end do these depictions represent and reflect. Insofar that: What problematizes this equation of 'pornography as exploitation' that, to some degree is described by Linda Williams, is the extent of participation of the act, give how Esther, bleeding all over herself on the floor, would represent the "sexually ecstatic woman." Yet, de Van's participation and embodiment of her character, namely how Esther is represented, does not suggest a victimization, be it 'active', such as an extrapolation of Morgan's slogan would suggest, or 'passive', if following Mulvey's discussion of the 'gaze' as masculine, sadistic, and normalizing. de Van's use of body-horror is to employ a disassociation of the mind and body. Esther, psychologically speaking, is unable to rectify her castration, beginning with the initial destruction of her leg, a symbol of her fetishization which alleviates this anxiety, then moving on to the rest of her body. The epitome of this mind/body dichotomy is during the dinner scene, where symbolically her hand becomes detached from her body akin to the act of castration, since she is the junior amongst the group of cultural elites. The way the dinner scene was shot was quite surreal, in the vein of Cronenberg, with a wide shot of the dinner table, while Esther stares at her listless hand and punishes it. The final scene of her mutilation is shown in split screen, recalling the sterility of the opening of the film, the large, glass skyscrapers mirrored by the microcosmic banalities of the office environment. This final split screen allows the viewer to look over the idiosyncrasies of Esther's work; the room is covered completely in blood, with Esther head-to-toe covered in her vital fluid. This blood suggests a birth, rebirth even, of a new Esther, such that: This autoerotic, masturbatory event grants Esther the sexual satiety that Vincent, as loving as he is, and forgiving in the the face of her ever-growing collection of scars, cannot provide. Her removed flesh becomes a satellite of disassociation from her body. She wishes to take great care of this piece of skin, tanning it, placing it in her bra, caressing it, and putting it to her breast like a baby. She projects onto this piece of skin her 'birth' and enacts a maternal role to it, which is what Esther is doing to herself, mothering herself through violence in a womb-like setting. At this point, pain and pleasure in Esther's mind are probably the same. Esther's self-inflicted violence calls into question how one should qualify such acts, the motivations behind them, and their cinematic representations, such that In My Skin parallels: Through In My Skin, the question of culpability of a "villain" at the hands of a "victim," moreover such cinematic representations of masochism as "pornography" has been ambiguous. Ultimately, Esther rejects her lifestyle, her career, her friends, and her lover, and chooses to live out a life where she derives satiety, be it a moral, personal, or sexual sort, through self-mutilation. de Van's ending leaves open a possibility for Esther to return, but since she has gone so far to skin herself, it would be likely that she would continue this pleasurable investigation of her body to the point of evisceration. The inexplicability of the extent of Esther's masochism serves as a feminist alternative to masculinized body-horror genres, due to its protagonist occupying roles of created and bearer of the "gaping wound," her existence in an economic and social world with real actions and real consequences, and her survival, as ambiguous as it may be, as a commentary on a woman's state of mind and sexuality. By no means is In My Skin made to be easily interpreted, but given the extremity of its content, in no way should it be denied." Haha, I don't know if anyone will take the time to actually read this!
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
Posts: 4,874
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Nov 19, 2009 0:19:37 GMT -5
Yeah that was more my choice of word, she just said "Like SAW or Hostel" I was originally going to say Torture Porn cause I heard that used to descibe Hostel once but then I just got lazy and typed gore lol Don't let DSR hear you use the phrase "torture porn." The remake of Last House on the Left would be my own suggestion, since it probably came about specifically because Saw/ Hostel were so popular.
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Post by DSR on Nov 19, 2009 0:51:24 GMT -5
Looking through those lists, what sticks out to me is truly how awesome of a time the '80s were for horror. The only debate I have is that there are definitely some '80s Argento flicks that deserve to be up there - Inferno, Tenebre, Phenomena and Opera make up his '80s output, and they're all great films. Of those four, I lean toward Opera, with the only ting keeping it from being my favorite Argento film PERIOD being the ending. Man, I wish they would have gone with the originally-planned capper. Again, the lists are a year old. And yes, I probably would add Phenomena (my personal favorite Argento picture). More than likely I'd put it in place of Halloween III, which I'm sure makes you happy, TR. Meh, I harp on it all the time, but by this point I've come to accept that that's just one Pandora's Box I just can't shut. *shrug* As for a suggestion along the lines of a Hostel or Saw...I dunno, Hard Candy? Not quite as graphic as those other movies, but its very intense. And I've read reviews that likened it, in some ways, to the torture porn subgenre.
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Post by Rorschach on Nov 19, 2009 3:07:58 GMT -5
Part 2: "Her masochist pleasure becomes amplified during the hotel room scene when Esther bathes her face in her own blood emanating from her leg. This bleeding is equivalent to representations of orgasm in hardcore pornographic films. However, to classify the scene itself as pornographic is ambiguous, given how de Van portrays the role of Esther, wrote the screenplay, and directed the film: Esther/de Van does not submit to the dominant social order (meaning, in some sense, the split between the character and director open up possible feminist readings). If one considers de Van's performance and direction of masochism as pornographic or exploitative, one should be clear to define what end do these depictions represent and reflect. Insofar that: What problematizes this equation of 'pornography as exploitation' that, to some degree is described by Linda Williams, is the extent of participation of the act, give how Esther, bleeding all over herself on the floor, would represent the "sexually ecstatic woman." Yet, de Van's participation and embodiment of her character, namely how Esther is represented, does not suggest a victimization, be it 'active', such as an extrapolation of Morgan's slogan would suggest, or 'passive', if following Mulvey's discussion of the 'gaze' as masculine, sadistic, and normalizing. de Van's use of body-horror is to employ a disassociation of the mind and body. Esther, psychologically speaking, is unable to rectify her castration, beginning with the initial destruction of her leg, a symbol of her fetishization which alleviates this anxiety, then moving on to the rest of her body. The epitome of this mind/body dichotomy is during the dinner scene, where symbolically her hand becomes detached from her body akin to the act of castration, since she is the junior amongst the group of cultural elites. The way the dinner scene was shot was quite surreal, in the vein of Cronenberg, with a wide shot of the dinner table, while Esther stares at her listless hand and punishes it. The final scene of her mutilation is shown in split screen, recalling the sterility of the opening of the film, the large, glass skyscrapers mirrored by the microcosmic banalities of the office environment. This final split screen allows the viewer to look over the idiosyncrasies of Esther's work; the room is covered completely in blood, with Esther head-to-toe covered in her vital fluid. This blood suggests a birth, rebirth even, of a new Esther, such that: This autoerotic, masturbatory event grants Esther the sexual satiety that Vincent, as loving as he is, and forgiving in the the face of her ever-growing collection of scars, cannot provide. Her removed flesh becomes a satellite of disassociation from her body. She wishes to take great care of this piece of skin, tanning it, placing it in her bra, caressing it, and putting it to her breast like a baby. She projects onto this piece of skin her 'birth' and enacts a maternal role to it, which is what Esther is doing to herself, mothering herself through violence in a womb-like setting. At this point, pain and pleasure in Esther's mind are probably the same. Esther's self-inflicted violence calls into question how one should qualify such acts, the motivations behind them, and their cinematic representations, such that In My Skin parallels: Through In My Skin, the question of culpability of a "villain" at the hands of a "victim," moreover such cinematic representations of masochism as "pornography" has been ambiguous. Ultimately, Esther rejects her lifestyle, her career, her friends, and her lover, and chooses to live out a life where she derives satiety, be it a moral, personal, or sexual sort, through self-mutilation. de Van's ending leaves open a possibility for Esther to return, but since she has gone so far to skin herself, it would be likely that she would continue this pleasurable investigation of her body to the point of evisceration. The inexplicability of the extent of Esther's masochism serves as a feminist alternative to masculinized body-horror genres, due to its protagonist occupying roles of created and bearer of the "gaping wound," her existence in an economic and social world with real actions and real consequences, and her survival, as ambiguous as it may be, as a commentary on a woman's state of mind and sexuality. By no means is In My Skin made to be easily interpreted, but given the extremity of its content, in no way should it be denied." Haha, I don't know if anyone will take the time to actually read this! I did, both parts. An excellent analysis/interpretation! I myself have not seen this film, but even if I had, I don't know if I could take it apart on the level you just did. That was really a great read!
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Post by YellowJacketY2J on Nov 19, 2009 6:58:26 GMT -5
As for a suggestion along the lines of a Hostel or Saw...I dunno, Hard Candy? Not quite as graphic as those other movies, but its very intense. And I've read reviews that likened it, in some ways, to the torture porn subgenre. I myself would recommend Hard Candy, but I'm not sure if it's what she's looking for. If she's looking for something like Saw and Hostel, it may be hard to find anything else, since they're in a league of their own.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
Posts: 4,874
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Nov 19, 2009 11:34:43 GMT -5
Hey R-Man, speaking of Machine Girl, I rented it on Monday and my friend came over today to watch it with me. Instead he ended up taking a nap on my couch for 3 hours and then had to go into a meeting so we didn't even watch it. lol Also anyone that likes gore needs to check out the unrated version of Dead-Alive aka Brain Dead. Machine Girl is such an awesome movie. Not really a HORROR movie in the strictest sense (and yes, I do consider all of the films on my top 10 of the decade list to be horror movies, but not this one), but just total fun from start to finish. You can't help but walk away from it with a big goofy grin on your face.
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Post by tap on Nov 19, 2009 11:58:15 GMT -5
I did, both parts. An excellent analysis/interpretation! I myself have not seen this film, but even if I had, I don't know if I could take it apart on the level you just did. That was really a great read! Thanks! I appreciate that. Like I said, I dug up some old film essays I wrote in my undergrad, thought people here might find them interesting. This paper was 1 of 3 papers I wrote for a 4th year film course on representations of gender, race, and class. Good course, got a lot out of it. I highly recommend the film too (which I actually bought because of the cover alone a couple years back). It's not really "horror" in the normative sense of the term. Another review (which actually touches upon a lot of things I wrote when I did this paper in early 2007... great minds?) sums up what type of horror film it is. seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/2008/12/in-my-skin.htmlHere is the Amazon.com listing and some reviews that really offer insight into why someone may or may not like it. www.amazon.com/My-Skin-Bernard-Alane/dp/B0001CNQSA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1258649370&sr=8-1I'll probably type up my paper I wrote on Haneke's "The Piano Teacher" some time tonight or tomorrow.
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theryno665
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Post by theryno665 on Nov 19, 2009 19:22:29 GMT -5
As for a suggestion along the lines of a Hostel or Saw...I dunno, Hard Candy? Not quite as graphic as those other movies, but its very intense. And I've read reviews that likened it, in some ways, to the torture porn subgenre. I myself would recommend Hard Candy, but I'm not sure if it's what she's looking for. If she's looking for something like Saw and Hostel, it may be hard to find anything else, since they're in a league of their own. The only other thing I can think of similar to Saw and Hostel without going far back into '70s and '80s Italian gore would be Captivity. Unfortunately, I haven't seen it myself so I can't say if it's any good or not.
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Post by Rorschach on Nov 19, 2009 19:57:36 GMT -5
Watched PARANORMAL ACTIVITY last night. Since that horse has been beaten to death, zombified, and then killed again, all I'm going to say about it is that I was kind of let down by it. Was it creepy? Yeah, sort of. But the story erred on the side of making the male character such a huge dick to his girlfriend that I ended up not having a lot of sympathy for him in the film's final act.
PARANORMAL ACTIVITY is a film where not much happens, and when it does, it's very slight. It kind of teases you that way...kind of strings you along, and you know, I might have liked this film more if it had had more of a strong finale than it did. It needed more payoff than what we got, I felt. It was good, but not as good as I had been lead to believe. I wasn't blown away by it, and it didn't reinvent the wheel....but it was a decently done story, and an original idea.
*** out of five from me.
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Post by Rorschach on Nov 20, 2009 1:26:35 GMT -5
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Nov 20, 2009 1:38:56 GMT -5
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Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Nov 20, 2009 2:42:40 GMT -5
Hey R-Man, speaking of Machine Girl, I rented it on Monday and my friend came over today to watch it with me. Instead he ended up taking a nap on my couch for 3 hours and then had to go into a meeting so we didn't even watch it. lol Also anyone that likes gore needs to check out the unrated version of Dead-Alive aka Brain Dead. Machine Girl is such an awesome movie. Not really a HORROR movie in the strictest sense (and yes, I do consider all of the films on my top 10 of the decade list to be horror movies, but not this one), but just total fun from start to finish. You can't help but walk away from it with a big goofy grin on your face. Yeah, it's not a horror movie, though because of the gore this is about as close to a thread as I have to talk about it. lol There are no Japanese movies threads. ;D
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
Posts: 4,874
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on Nov 20, 2009 9:42:02 GMT -5
I don't know about you, but I think a cinema verite Ju-On would be creepy as f***.
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Post by Rorschach on Nov 20, 2009 13:30:22 GMT -5
I don't know about you, but I think a cinema verite Ju-On would be creepy as f***. Something like that actually might have enhanced PARANORMAL ACTIVITY, to be honest. Even a fleeting glimpse of something, you know? Another thing that's been bothering me about that film since I saw it is the fact that, essentially, the movie implodes on itself about twenty minutes in when the couple calls the paranormal investigator. {Spoiler}Him agreeing outright with Katie that the place is haunted, and then bringing up the demonologist just KILLED the arc that the movie SHOULD have taken. This was set up to be a film where we are the skeptics going in, and then this film convinces us. But it tries to flip the script and give us evidence that this is real, the paranormal expert agreeing something is messed up in that house,and Katie PLEADING with Micah to leave/not provoke things/call in the demonologist. The fact that Micah refuses to, and the fact that he treats this as a joke even AFTER several instances pointing to the contrary, paints him as a huge asshole, and in some instances, almost makes him look sadistic. From that moment on, the film just lost me. You have all you need to call in the freakin' Ghost Hunters, people! Any sane person would have done that after the first instance, let alone the first THREE instances that you caught on tape! I don't know...just seems like one of those films where the more you think about it, the more stuff you find wrong with it.
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