Perd
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Post by Perd on Dec 20, 2009 20:11:07 GMT -5
I haven't read a lot of graphic novels (Only "Watchmen" and "The Killing Joke"), but a few years ago I kept reading about how great Frank Miller was. Now everytime I see his name it's somebody talking about how much he sucks. So what is it, typical bashing of something once it becomes popular or does he suck.
Also, I have seen "Sin City" AND "300", and I thought both were good. Should the credit go to the directors or the writer.
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Grendel
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Post by Grendel on Dec 20, 2009 20:14:35 GMT -5
If you liked Sin City, go ahead and read the graphic novels it's based on. There is a bunch more stuff in there ...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2009 20:17:10 GMT -5
I haven't read a lot of graphic novels (Only "Watchmen" and "The Killing Joke"), but a few years ago I kept reading about how great Frank Miller was. Now everytime I see his name it's somebody talking about how much he sucks. So what is it, typical bashing of something once it becomes popular or does he suck. Also, I have seen "Sin City" AND "300", and I thought both were good. Should the credit go to the directors or the writer. Are they talking perhaps about his directorial experience w/ The Spirit perhaps, because from all accounts that blew major chunks
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livetowin
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Post by livetowin on Dec 20, 2009 20:22:51 GMT -5
I like Frank Miller. He's made a few blunders, but everyone does.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Dec 20, 2009 20:26:47 GMT -5
They are probably talking about his career as a Hollywood screenwriter and his direction of The Spirit. Remember, Miller did not make the film of 300, he just created the comic.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Dec 20, 2009 20:27:16 GMT -5
I haven't read a lot of graphic novels (Only "Watchmen" and "The Killing Joke"), but a few years ago I kept reading about how great Frank Miller was. Now everytime I see his name it's somebody talking about how much he sucks. So what is it, typical bashing of something once it becomes popular or does he suck. Also, I have seen "Sin City" AND "300", and I thought both were good. Should the credit go to the directors or the writer. No, most is people calling him a hack writer and a coke head. Maybe it's just a bunch of Are they talking perhaps about his directorial experience w/ The Spirit perhaps, because from all accounts that blew major chunks No, most of it is criticizing his writing. Maybe it's just Alan Moore fanboys.
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Triple Kelly
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Post by Triple Kelly on Dec 20, 2009 20:29:46 GMT -5
All Star Batman & Robin......geez that one sucks balls. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.
And The Dark Knight Strikes Again.....eh. At least it wasn't All Star Batman & Robin.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Dec 20, 2009 20:34:55 GMT -5
Frank Miller writing Miller created characters(like in Sin City, 300, etc) is great. Up there with the best.
Miller writing others' characters, though, can get pretty rough.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Dec 20, 2009 20:38:06 GMT -5
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Dec 20, 2009 20:46:36 GMT -5
Frank Miller up until the mid-late 90's - typically awesome, if not overly gritty. Depends on your preference. I think his superhero work was MOSTLY terrific.
But at least the past 10 years or so he's like the Jeph Loeb of gritty comics.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 20, 2009 20:58:08 GMT -5
I haven't read a lot of graphic novels (Only "Watchmen" and "The Killing Joke"), but a few years ago I kept reading about how great Frank Miller was. Now everytime I see his name it's somebody talking about how much he sucks. So what is it, typical bashing of something once it becomes popular or does he suck. Also, I have seen "Sin City" AND "300", and I thought both were good. Should the credit go to the directors or the writer. operative being Frank Miller was great. his work over the last 15 years or so is cliche, overly macho tripe. not to mention him basically raping Batman in that All-Star Batman and Robin cock-up. DC has huge stones to even release that crap.
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Dec 20, 2009 22:36:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the links. Maybe I will check out 300, Sin City, and The Dark Knight Returns.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 20, 2009 22:51:34 GMT -5
Here's my take on Frank Miller in a nutshell. When he's writing his own creations, he's good. When he's writing pre-existing characters but kept on a leash, he's good (Daredevil, Batman). When he's allowed to do whatever the heck he wants with pre-existing characters, he's ludicrously bad.
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 20, 2009 22:56:42 GMT -5
Miller's problem is a lot like Rob Liefeld's: Too much success, too quickly. It made both of them complacent, although Miller managed to avoid it longer.
I don't think it helps matters that I hate Elektra, pretty much the only woman I remember him writing who didn't get made to take her clothes off.
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Post by Young Game on Dec 20, 2009 22:57:28 GMT -5
He's not that bad. I mean, who doesn't like Robocop 2 & 3?
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Dec 20, 2009 23:04:03 GMT -5
Here's the thing about Frank Miller: he WAS good. From like the 1980s up until late 1990s, maybe 2000, he was great. Then, the new millennium hit, and he went bat shit insane or something because most of his work in this decade has been ridiculously bad. Basically, he's another example of someone who you used to have it but lost it.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 20, 2009 23:25:21 GMT -5
I haven't read a lot of graphic novels (Only "Watchmen" and "The Killing Joke"), but a few years ago I kept reading about how great Frank Miller was. Now everytime I see his name it's somebody talking about how much he sucks. So what is it, typical bashing of something once it becomes popular or does he suck. Also, I have seen "Sin City" AND "300", and I thought both were good. Should the credit go to the directors or the writer. operative being Frank Miller was great. his work over the last 15 years or so is cliche, overly macho tripe. not to mention him basically raping Batman in that All-Star Batman and Robin cock-up. DC has huge stones to even release that crap. I concur, his past catalogue of work speaks for itself, he's probably one of the most influential creators of the last say thirty years. That said, he's also an example of an artist who seems to have completely lost his s*** and become a near parody of himself, churning out stuff in at least the last decade that's an over the top caricature of what he did well, to the extent that its almost like he's a sad imitation of 'good' Frank Miller. It's hard to say why, but I sorta liken it to say George Lucas, who got so much power and prestige based on past work that he now is able to put out anything based on his name alone, regardless of quality, and it doesn't seem like anyone can tell him how poor his current stuff is, or that he just doesn't care and is only doing stuff to entertain himself. Plus, it may be a bit unfair, but in a way his success with 'Dark Knight Returns' seems to have changed Batman's character nearly forever in every subsequent portrayal where lesser creators make him a complete grim asshole to represent being 'dark'. That's not his fault, but the turn to 'grim and gritty' whether its needed or not was certainly a response/imitation of his and other creators (Moore for example) benchmark works.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 21, 2009 0:01:00 GMT -5
Frank Miller has a distinct shtick. It used to be what made him so popular, but over the years it's gotten cliched. But from all the stuff of his I've seen, it's all he does. He does the dark, gritty, "extreme" boilerplate characters. That remade Batman when he did it in 1986. In Sin City it showed a new type of Noir and it worked. In 300 it fit with the character, of the Spartan embellishing what was already a defining historical battle.
But if a story might require a different type of story telling, it fails. If it requires subtlety or complexity, it just doesn't work well. That's more or less what's separated him from the other famous writers. Where others can shift gears and retell a story in a different way, Miller only really works when he sticks with his one-note.
As for why people don't like him, aside from that, his writing tends to come across as misogynistic and homophobic at times.
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Post by Evilution E5150 on Dec 21, 2009 6:33:15 GMT -5
f*** all the hate i will stand up and say I LIKE ALLSTAR BATMAN AND ROBIN.
*puts up flame shield*
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 21, 2009 6:36:36 GMT -5
f*** all the hate i will stand up and say I LIKE ALLSTAR BATMAN AND ROBIN. *puts up flame shield* Well, I'll say this: I did enjoy the copious amounts of Vickie Vale ass on display.
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