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Post by Thank You Shawn on Nov 3, 2009 6:55:33 GMT -5
will the sun come out today?
of f***ing course he is.
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Post by Ryushinku on Nov 3, 2009 8:18:57 GMT -5
Most definitely.
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 3, 2009 9:53:36 GMT -5
I think it's a little unfair to think of Peter Maivia that way, did The Rock end up a bigger name then him? Yes. But before he was The Rock, he was Rocky Maivia, Rocky Johnson's son and Peter Maivia's grandson. His entire career was founded on that, and eventually The Rock got a chance to use his own talents to make it big. The fact is, if it weren't for Peter Maivia, there would be no Rock. That's part of his legacy. Not to mention how many Samoan wrestlers came from that as well. If you asked 100 wrestling fans to say the first thing that comes to their mind when they hear "Peter Maivia" I bet 99-100 will say "hes the Rock's grandfather" If The Rock never existed Peter Maivia wouldnt be in the HOF. Which makes me glad that no other Hall of Fame apparently considers the criteria "the first thing that pops into new fan's minds when you say the name."
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Post by ♥ Bunnyslinger ♥ on Nov 3, 2009 10:01:08 GMT -5
Anyone is HOF material, it's not like there are any standards you have to live up to in order to get in. Koko is in it for crying out loud. The 'E will put anyone they want in it, classic matches or not. But yeah, HHH would get in, even if it was reserved only for the leetz0rs.
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The G.O.A.T.
Don Corleone
This post may or may not be credited to Rajah.com
Posts: 1,433
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Post by The G.O.A.T. on Nov 3, 2009 10:51:48 GMT -5
In a word, yes
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Nov 3, 2009 17:49:56 GMT -5
If you asked 100 wrestling fans to say the first thing that comes to their mind when they hear "Peter Maivia" I bet 99-100 will say "hes the Rock's grandfather" If The Rock never existed Peter Maivia wouldnt be in the HOF. Which makes me glad that no other Hall of Fame apparently considers the criteria "the first thing that pops into new fan's minds when you say the name." But you know its true... Even more, a casual fan probably couldnt name a single accomplishment in maivia's career outside of being the Rock's grandfather. You can debate whether or not he's deserving based on running an extremely small and non influential region of the NWA for a half dozen years, or even his 10 or so WWWF Main Events.. But I'll stand by the SOLE REASON he's in the WWE HOF is because of The Rock, period.. they needed to sell tickets so Rock's dad and grandfather go in to get the Rock to show. And that was my point. The criteria in the WWE is well known, its who Vince wants for whatever reason.
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 3, 2009 22:37:30 GMT -5
Which makes me glad that no other Hall of Fame apparently considers the criteria "the first thing that pops into new fan's minds when you say the name." But you know its true... Even more, a casual fan probably couldnt name a single accomplishment in maivia's career outside of being the Rock's grandfather. You can debate whether or not he's deserving based on running an extremely small and non influential region of the NWA for a half dozen years, or even his 10 or so WWWF Main Events.. But I'll stand by the SOLE REASON he's in the WWE HOF is because of The Rock, period.. they needed to sell tickets so Rock's dad and grandfather go in to get the Rock to show. And that was my point. The criteria in the WWE is well known, its who Vince wants for whatever reason. You can make the argument that The Rock is the reason he's in all you want, but I still think it is revisionist and disingenuous if you refuse to look at accomplishments and overall impact when determining worth. My point is that a person's impact on anything isn't determined by a name association game, and their influence doesn't suddenly disappear if a relative becomes more famous. New fans of anything aren't going to always know who was influential before them. I'm betting a decent chunk of WWE's audience doesn't know who Bruno Sammartino is (and that number will only increase over time) and many newer rock fans potentially don't know who Bo Diddly is, that doesn't change their influence or impact. Eventually, everyone but a few will become virtual unknowns as a fanbase turns over. That's essentially the argument you've been making, I just think it's wrong. We'll have to just disagree on that.
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Post by Mr. Emoticon Man, TF Fan on Nov 3, 2009 22:38:53 GMT -5
I think so. I'm not a fan, but he's done enough to earn a spot in my opinion.
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Nov 3, 2009 22:43:00 GMT -5
If he is not, no one is.
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hughmorris
Bubba Ho-Tep
Resistance is Futile!
Posts: 652
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Post by hughmorris on Nov 3, 2009 23:24:31 GMT -5
Hollywood Hulk Hogan already is in the HOF...and why talk about him here? Didn't he just sign with that other company?
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
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Post by Mac on Nov 3, 2009 23:26:23 GMT -5
But you know its true... Even more, a casual fan probably couldnt name a single accomplishment in maivia's career outside of being the Rock's grandfather. You can debate whether or not he's deserving based on running an extremely small and non influential region of the NWA for a half dozen years, or even his 10 or so WWWF Main Events.. But I'll stand by the SOLE REASON he's in the WWE HOF is because of The Rock, period.. they needed to sell tickets so Rock's dad and grandfather go in to get the Rock to show. And that was my point. The criteria in the WWE is well known, its who Vince wants for whatever reason. You can make the argument that The Rock is the reason he's in all you want, but I still think it is revisionist and disingenuous if you refuse to look at accomplishments and overall impact when determining worth. My point is that a person's impact on anything isn't determined by a name association game, and their influence doesn't suddenly disappear if a relative becomes more famous. New fans of anything aren't going to always know who was influential before them. I'm betting a decent chunk of WWE's audience doesn't know who Bruno Sammartino is (and that number will only increase over time) and many newer rock fans potentially don't know who Bo Diddly is, that doesn't change their influence or impact. Eventually, everyone but a few will become virtual unknowns as a fanbase turns over. That's essentially the argument you've been making, I just think it's wrong. We'll have to just disagree on that. Yeah.. the problem is your list of "accomplishments" are pretty meaningless. NWA Hawaii is an afterthought, I'd wager most people were eevn aware of its existance. He was a solid mid to upper carder in San Fransisco and for 18 months in the WWE. He is basically MArk Henry of today... not much to write home about, never a mega star and in the HOF only because his grandson was needed to sell tikets to a show. I'd love you to dispute that with facts or a tangible reason why they'd put Peter Maivia in the HOF ahead of so many other deserving mid/upper carders for any other reason than to get the Rock to show up at the ceremony. Again, he booked a failure of a territory in Hawaii that shut its doors twice until his death and he never really set a niche anywhere for a prolonged amount of time. He did his small part for a time, but in the end hes nothing special and his legacy remains that hes the grandfather of a wrestling legend... unless he did something remarkable you have knowledge of that i've missed.
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Post by Red Impact on Nov 4, 2009 0:25:56 GMT -5
You can make the argument that The Rock is the reason he's in all you want, but I still think it is revisionist and disingenuous if you refuse to look at accomplishments and overall impact when determining worth. My point is that a person's impact on anything isn't determined by a name association game, and their influence doesn't suddenly disappear if a relative becomes more famous. New fans of anything aren't going to always know who was influential before them. I'm betting a decent chunk of WWE's audience doesn't know who Bruno Sammartino is (and that number will only increase over time) and many newer rock fans potentially don't know who Bo Diddly is, that doesn't change their influence or impact. Eventually, everyone but a few will become virtual unknowns as a fanbase turns over. That's essentially the argument you've been making, I just think it's wrong. We'll have to just disagree on that. Yeah.. the problem is your list of "accomplishments" are pretty meaningless. NWA Hawaii is an afterthought, I'd wager most people were eevn aware of its existance. He was a solid mid to upper carder in San Fransisco and for 18 months in the WWE. He is basically MArk Henry of today... not much to write home about, never a mega star and in the HOF only because his grandson was needed to sell tikets to a show. I'd love you to dispute that with facts or a tangible reason why they'd put Peter Maivia in the HOF ahead of so many other deserving mid/upper carders for any other reason than to get the Rock to show up at the ceremony. Again, he booked a failure of a territory in Hawaii that shut its doors twice until his death and he never really set a niche anywhere for a prolonged amount of time. He did his small part for a time, but in the end hes nothing special and his legacy remains that hes the grandfather of a wrestling legend... unless he did something remarkable you have knowledge of that i've missed. I think we're on different wavelengths. I'm not arguing that they didn't induct him to get The Rock. I'm arguing that, regardless of the reason, a person should be looked at on their own merits. There's going to be politics in HoF selections, not just in wrestling but in anything. I don't believe in penalizing a person for that, I think you have to look at a person's career. For accomplishments, what accomplishments have meaning? What is significant and what isn't? What is your criteria, besides name association? For me, I think the criteria in any pro-wrestling HoF is centered on two things, influence and recognizability. Sometimes they go hand in hand, other times they don't. Because of the nature of the business as it is, I think if someone is particularly noteworthy in either or both, they deserve to be looked at. For him not doing anything worth it, I disagree. Here's a decent write-up of his career. Yes, he was the grandfather of the Rock, yes, that's how a lot of people will remember him, but he wasn't a guy who sat in the Pacific Islands and ruled his fed, he was a guy who some significant feuds with national stars in major venues, trained or helped train some HoF's in his own right, is considered a pioneer in wrestling and a trailblazer for Samoan and Polynesian wrestlers, and he was considered a patriarch of one of the most significant families in the industry's history. In the only decent criteria I can personally consider based on the business, I think he's deserving.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
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Post by randomranter on Nov 4, 2009 0:32:28 GMT -5
Being a big draw, which Triple H has never been and will never be..... Um....ok. This one is slightly debatable. Maybe........ .....but this almost made me spit pea soup all over my keyboard. On what bizzaro world is Undertaker NOT a big draw? Because here on Earth, he's been one of the WWE's biggest money draws and merchandise movers for just shy of two decades, along with being in many of the era's biggest matches and moments. You're way off. WM13 certainly wasn't a "success" especially when compared to other wrestlemanias, but Wrestlemanias 2, 9, 11, and 12 were all far worse. And Jericho is EASILY HOF worthy.
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