barley96
Dennis Stamp
This is the biggest Mickie James mark
Posts: 4,170
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Post by barley96 on Dec 28, 2009 5:14:56 GMT -5
I made this same argument on another board (or was it this one?). WWE tends to be product of the times. Where's the money going? Late 90's: Jerry Springer, Raunchy South Park, Limp Bizkit & rap-metal. We're angry and edgy! Late 00's: Hannah Montana, High School Musical, Jonas Bros. Fun for the whole family! South park still raunchy but with a message or clear topical parody Thank you for reminding me why I am stuck in the 1990s and why this decade sucks.
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Post by Solid Stryk-Dizzle on Dec 28, 2009 8:10:12 GMT -5
I'll take Hannah Montana and High School Musical over Limp Bizkit any f***ing day.
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@TenaciousBe
Hank Scorpio
Guess who's back... back again
Posts: 5,659
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Post by @TenaciousBe on Dec 28, 2009 8:59:45 GMT -5
I made this same argument on another board (or was it this one?). WWE tends to be product of the times. Where's the money going? Late 90's: Jerry Springer, Raunchy South Park, Limp Bizkit & rap-metal. We're angry and edgy! Late 00's: Hannah Montana, High School Musical, Jonas Bros. Fun for the whole family! South park still raunchy but with a message or clear topical parody Precisely. Without getting too political about it, I think our society took a huge turn on Sept. 11, 2001. I think that's the day that the "edge" in our society started to die out. In the blink of an eye, people got scared again, they felt less invincible, and it only stands to reason that we (as a society) would turn to our children and put them back on a higher pedestal when everything got a little too real. Shortly thereafter, Janet Jackson Nipplegate (or, really, Pasty-gate) happened, and that just might have been the death blow for raunch in the mainstream. Not that I'm saying raunch in the mainstream is something we need to get back to, or anything, but like someone else said, our pop culture has just felt zombified. It feels sanitized and cleaned up for our pain-free ingestion. We need a little pain in our lives. We need some danger. We need a little edge, we need someone pushing the envelope to make things interesting. I don't have kids, I don't want them, and I don't give 2 steaming piles about Hannah Montanna, the Jonas Bros, or, consequently, the ultra-kiddie stories surrounding Hornswoggle and, to a lesser extent, Rey and Cena. But the problem now is that if someone were to go back to that 90's attitude, if Marilyn Manson were to break big and start pulling his old stunts, if a new NWO style faction were to be created, it would just feel like a rehash of the 90's. In my opinion, the biggest problem with everything right now is that the world is just sitting here salivating, waiting for a new revolution. Something big, something exciting, but most of all, something new. But nobody knows what that thing is, we just know we want it. Or, at the very least, I do.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 28, 2009 11:17:39 GMT -5
No, not necessarily- no decade's output is going to look shocking or revolutionary if one focuses on the aspects of it specifically marketed towards children. Every period has its raunchy side and its safer side. With WWE, it's more of a shift in business tactics than any sign of the times.
In fact, you could switch it around and use Hanson, boy bands and Pokemon as representative of the 90's, and the Saw films, Ludacris's lyrics, and Family Guy as symbolic of the 00's. Miley Cyrus and High School Musical are aimed at a completely different audience than Marilyn Manson, so they could have easily thrived in the previous decade.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Dec 28, 2009 13:33:42 GMT -5
Pro wrestling, as a whole (but especially WWE), has become boring and complacent. And it's because our popular culture, as a whole, has become boring and complacent. Agree? Disagree? That really isn't a good excuse. By that logic, if a filmmaker does a bad movie, it's not their fault, it's just the fault of the decade. WWE is bad because the people in charge are making it that way.
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Post by dlg3000 on Dec 28, 2009 14:56:41 GMT -5
No, not necessarily- no decade's output is going to look shocking or revolutionary if one focuses on the aspects of it specifically marketed towards children. Every period has its raunchy side and its safer side. With WWE, it's more of a shift in business tactics than any sign of the times. In fact, you could switch it around and use Hanson, boy bands and Pokemon as representative of the 90's, and the Saw films, Ludacris's lyrics, and Family Guy as symbolic of the 00's. Miley Cyrus and High School Musical are aimed at a completely different audience than Marilyn Manson, so they could have easily thrived in the previous decade. agreed.
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Post by Ryushinku on Dec 28, 2009 15:58:48 GMT -5
That, and his character is AWESOME. I don't get how people can call the character "boring" or "monotonous." Insane sociopathic snakeman? Uh... I think Orton's character is just always going to be one of those love it or hate it things. I enjoy his in-ring work in the main (he's one of the best for showing exactly what he's thinking) and his flat yet intense promos. He has a certain character and he has it down to the letter.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Dec 29, 2009 13:28:29 GMT -5
If you ask me, professional wrestling is a lost cause in America. I can contribute that greatly to the death of kayfabe. When you know the inner workings, it makes enjoying professional wrestling less fun. Jim Cornette goes into great detail about this, and I agree with him on that.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 29, 2009 16:52:16 GMT -5
If you ask me, professional wrestling is a lost cause in America. I can contribute that greatly to the death of kayfabe. When you know the inner workings, it makes enjoying professional wrestling less fun. Jim Cornette goes into great detail about this, and I agree with him on that. I dont know about that. The Attitude era came along around the time of the death of kayfabe, and all the ECW fans knew the inner workings as well before that.
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Dec 30, 2009 1:05:03 GMT -5
Pro wrestling, as a whole (but especially WWE), has become boring and complacent. And it's because our popular culture, as a whole, has become boring and complacent. Agree? Disagree? That really isn't a good excuse. By that logic, if a filmmaker does a bad movie, it's not their fault, it's just the fault of the decade. WWE is bad because the people in charge are making it that way. We have a winner.
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Post by Chris the Bambikiller on Dec 30, 2009 4:57:35 GMT -5
In that case, i hope Steampunk becomes huge in the 10s as i'd love to see how the wwe would jump onto THAT trend. CM Steampunk?
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Post by Schattenjager on Dec 30, 2009 5:17:55 GMT -5
Orton will never, EVER be THE guy, regardless of what JR says. Orton, Punk, y2J and even Miz are more effective as heels than him. Orton is more effective than Orton? I don't know about that, but I do know that Orton screwed Orton.
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deeks
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 264
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Post by deeks on Dec 30, 2009 16:01:52 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more. I also feel that, other than Raw, the product's wrestling quality has greatly improved over the storylines, whereas the Attitude era was "more Shock Value, less wrestling quality". Which sort of tells you wrestling quality isn't much of a draw. I think in the same way ECW influenced the Attitude Era, ROH will influence where wrestling is going towards today. A more athletic art form rather than just entertainment which WWE currently is. WWE signing ROH guys like CM Punk and Evan Bourne I think are great examples that support my theory here. I totally disagree. ECW was easy for WWF and WCW to rip from because it was character and storyline based. Just like every other large successful promotion that has run in the United States in the television era. ECW offered a mirror image of WWF at the time. It was cooler and edgier. No wonder the people around Vince saw it as what they needed to emulate. ECW also had someone booking who worked in a big promotion and understood how to draw in a mainstream audience with sex and violence. ROH, unlike old ECW, does not attract many casuals. It's wrestling driven and draws from a much smaller group of smacks that enjoy two men grappling over the distracting story lines and angles that television brings. So its audience is limited. Why would anyone try to emulate something that appeals to the smallest market? There is nothing going on in ROH that makes me think, wow that's really initiative and exciting. I can see WWE trying to copy that. There is nothing on HDnet that makes me think this is the future. I see a bunch of smaller guys that put on good matches that will probably sign in WWE and TNA soon. On the other hand when I saw ECW back on MSG cable during the mid 90s, I saw what would be wrestling's future. It was fresh and seemed important. It was dangerous. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows what the future holds. But I am confident it will once again be more story line and character based since that is what has always brought in the casual fan.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Dec 30, 2009 16:19:32 GMT -5
If you ask me, professional wrestling is a lost cause in America. I can contribute that greatly to the death of kayfabe. When you know the inner workings, it makes enjoying professional wrestling less fun. Jim Cornette goes into great detail about this, and I agree with him on that. I dont know about that. The Attitude era came along around the time of the death of kayfabe, and all the ECW fans knew the inner workings as well before that. Then again, the Attitude Era still had some kayfabe in it, unlike today's era. It wasn't 1980s kayfabe, but the script wasn't so focused on like 2002 onward. Guys like "Stone Cold" and The Rock were themselves, but with the volume turned up. Also, if it wasn't for the internet, the history of wrestling would stay the same up until 2004ish, with things like Brock Lesnar's departure from the WWE and Lita cheating on Matt Hardy. I blame the internet on the death of kayfabe, more than I would with the Attitude Era.
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