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Post by TheDarkestKnight on Feb 24, 2010 19:41:08 GMT -5
RIP to the poor woman. Though this is a reason why I am against keeping Killer Whales in captivity. At the end of the day they are what the nickname implies and if given the chance will act upon it's instincts. Actually, they're not whales, aren't considered a threat to humans and got the name because they killed ACTUAL whales: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_WhalesBy the way, I think it's very suspicious that we have two accounts. Seaworld says the trainer slipped and the whale grabbed her but the other account said she was grabbed by the whale as it leaped. Yeah I know they are not Whales, should have made myself clear really when I said they are what the nickname suggests. I was implying the Killer part, but reading what I wrote I understand how it looked.
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Post by ani on Feb 24, 2010 21:45:49 GMT -5
Well PETA's at it again: "Jaime Zalac said the organization had called on SeaWorld "to stop confining oceangoing mammals to an area that to them is like the size of a bathtub, and we have also been asking the park to stop forcing the animals to perform silly tricks over and over again.It's not surprising when these huge, smart animals lash out."
That last sentence is unreal. That's kinda saying the person deserved to die.
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Post by Orange on Feb 24, 2010 21:50:20 GMT -5
Well PETA's at it again: "Jaime Zalac said the organization had called on SeaWorld "to stop confining oceangoing mammals to an area that to them is like the size of a bathtub, and we have also been asking the park to stop forcing the animals to perform silly tricks over and over again. It's not surprising when these huge, smart animals lash out."That last sentence is unreal. That's kinda saying the person deserved to die. I don't think they are saying that the person deserved to die, I don't think that's how they meant for it to be taken. I actually agree with PETA here (which is the first time it has happened) it's not surprising when they snap because at the end of the day they are animals. It's the same with lions and elephants as said before, they are wild animals that will from time to time lash out, but they're not saying that the person deserved to die.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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R2C2 Reporting for duty
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Feb 24, 2010 22:04:13 GMT -5
Actually, this is the third time this particular whale has been involved in a death according to the Chicago Fox News. In fact, trainers aren't even allowed in the water with it because of its past.
So it has three bodies on its head. That's good enough to put a person down. It's sure as hell good enough to put a clearly violent animal down.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 8:26:50 GMT -5
Actually, this is the third time this particular whale has been involved in a death according to the Chicago Fox News. In fact, trainers aren't even allowed in the water with it because of its past. So it has three bodies on its head. That's good enough to put a person down. It's sure as hell good enough to put a clearly violent animal down. As posted earlier, the first death didn't actually involve the orca in question and was merely an act of stupidity on the part of an idiot who wasn't supposed to be there.
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EvilMasterBetty, Esq.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bird...Birdie...birdie......Tiger...Tiger Tiger.....
R2C2 Reporting for duty
Posts: 17,355
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Post by EvilMasterBetty, Esq. on Feb 25, 2010 8:31:54 GMT -5
Actually, this is the third time this particular whale has been involved in a death according to the Chicago Fox News. In fact, trainers aren't even allowed in the water with it because of its past. So it has three bodies on its head. That's good enough to put a person down. It's sure as hell good enough to put a clearly violent animal down. As posted earlier, the first death didn't actually involve the orca in question and was merely an act of stupidity on the part of an idiot who wasn't supposed to be there. Actually the first was a trainer in 1991. Then the idiot. Then this woman. I'm sorry, but I don't care how pretty or endangered they are, I don't value an animal's life over a human's. Either release it or get rid of it. It shouldn't be around humans anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2010 8:38:56 GMT -5
So I reversed the two; simple mistake.
Still, they'd be very reluctant to release it or anything, because they're a preservation society first. Releasing it is asking for trouble. Killing it would be illegal.
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Post by FrankGotch on Feb 25, 2010 11:10:47 GMT -5
Well they could just send him back to his castle on the moon.
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Post by Rorschach on Feb 25, 2010 14:48:13 GMT -5
Well PETA's at it again: "Jaime Zalac said the organization had called on SeaWorld "to stop confining oceangoing mammals to an area that to them is like the size of a bathtub, and we have also been asking the park to stop forcing the animals to perform silly tricks over and over again. It's not surprising when these huge, smart animals lash out."That last sentence is unreal. That's kinda saying the person deserved to die. I don't think they are saying that the person deserved to die, I don't think that's how they meant for it to be taken. I actually agree with PETA here (which is the first time it has happened) it's not surprising when they snap because at the end of the day they are animals. It's the same with lions and elephants as said before, they are wild animals that will from time to time lash out, but they're not saying that the person deserved to die. Exactly. They're not trying to sit there and say that this trainer deserved what she got; they're merely pointing out that an alpha predator of the ocean just MIGHT NOT be suitable for being made to do tricks involving a smaller, and let's face it, edible creature. I know from everything that's been said that this appears to have been an accident (on CNN this morning they were saying the trainer's ponytail tickled the whale, causing it to grab her and fling her about) but still....you wouldn't DARE to do tricks like this, or get that damn close to a Great White in an enclosed pool...and Orcas have been known to kill and predate Great Whites in the wild! Same thing goes with circus elephants and lions and tigers. At the end of the day, no matter how much we train (read: whip, beat, and coerce) these wild animals, in their native environments, THEY are the alpha animals, and there's only so MUCH of having a little pink creature screaming at them that they're gonna take before they lash out. If YOU were the size of an African elephant, how long would you stand for a tiny little monkey sized creature beating on you, or screaming at you before you attacked it, or lashed out? Not too long, I'm guessing. Point is, many of the things we force these animals to do are NOT natural for them, and there's NOT a "natural incentive" for them to stick to the script and NOT go wild and eat us or attack us. They're NOT trained actors, no matter how much Sea World might try and sell us on the concept being otherwise. And yes, I have heard them refer to their dolphins as "actors in the show" at the park before. I'm not saying release them all, or end zoos altogether like some of the more radical people are doing right now...all I'm saying is that the stunt and daredevil shows are what needs to stop.
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Post by Rorschach on Feb 26, 2010 15:11:45 GMT -5
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Post by Cela on Feb 26, 2010 17:53:44 GMT -5
One violent whale. Whats to learn?
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Post by Rorschach on Feb 26, 2010 18:03:47 GMT -5
One violent whale. Whats to learn? Umm...a lot, if you think about it for a few seconds. A few things that could have been learned: *These animals MIGHT not be the best animals to be screwing around with, since they ARE predators by nature, and they ARE unpredictable and are for all their cuteness, or seeming docility, ARE what nature created them as. You don't see live shows with Great White sharks now, do you? And Orcas are higher on the food chain/predator scale than Great Whites are! *Studying them is fine and good, but you don't take an animal like this and make it do silly poodle tricks for your amusement. It, unlike the poodle, CAN kill you (though I guess a poodle technically could kill someone too, were the person vulnerable enough, and the poodle determined and/or pissed off enough) and it is several magnitudes of size larger than you are. Nature says IT should be telling YOU what to do, not vice versa. *This particular whale might best BE served by being kept away from ALL human contact non essential to his survival. Feeding should be done from a distance, and health/wellness issues should only be addressed once the animal is tranquilized or sedated. Seems NONE of that has crossed anyone at SeaWorld's mind.
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Post by Orange on Feb 26, 2010 18:05:15 GMT -5
One violent whale. Whats to learn? Just that these animals are capable of snapping, just like as Rorschach mentioned with tigers and elephants what have you. These animals weren't meant for being put in tanks or circuses for shows, they're wild animals and in the whales sense they're meant to be in the open waters of the world. Taking an animal that is used to the wide open and putting it into a fishtank (pretty much the size of it for them) is going to anger it eventually, no matter how nice the animals are supposed to be to humans. It's just like when elephants snap and people get outraged like nobody saw it coming, it's not a good idea to keep these huge animals confined, it's just not a good idea. Granted, it seems like the other whales at SeaWorld are fine as I haven't heard any news about them, but this is a whale that shouldn't be contained obviously. I'm glad that they're suspending the show, but I wish they'd just close it down altogether or else sadly this could happen again and more blame would be placed on the whale. EDIT - Ah Rorschach got to it before me
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Feb 26, 2010 19:30:41 GMT -5
Um, technically we did take an apex predator, and turn it into a poodle.
I think we can leave it that being draged away to the abyss is one of the risks of being a whale trainer. A tragedy and loss still.
"Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?"
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Post by Rorschach on Feb 26, 2010 19:47:26 GMT -5
Um, technically we did take an apex predator, and turn it into a poodle. I think we can leave it that being draged away to the abyss is one of the risks of being a whale trainer. A tragedy and loss still. "Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?" LOL...I didn't even think of it that way, but you're right. However, how many centuries did that take? And we've only been working with Orcas for a fraction of that. As you say, what happened was a tragedy and a loss, but it just strikes me that Sea World is taking it very lightly.
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Post by The Booty Disciple on Feb 26, 2010 19:52:22 GMT -5
Um, technically we did take an apex predator, and turn it into a poodle. I think we can leave it that being draged away to the abyss is one of the risks of being a whale trainer. A tragedy and loss still. "Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?" LOL...I didn't even think of it that way, but you're right. However, how many centuries did that take? And we've only been working with Orcas for a fraction of that. As you say, what happened was a tragedy and a loss, but it just strikes me that Sea World is taking it very lightly. I don't know if "lightly" is how I'd describe it, but it does seem that they're pretty much only putting out the PR stuff as damage control. I would imagine there are some reasonably high level re-evaluation of how to treat them going on behind closed doors, but until a solution is reached, I doubt they have any desire to go public with them. The unfortunate side of that is that it makes them look like, as you stated, that they're taking it lightly. A complete re-assessment of what the issue is here (or rather, the myriad of issues) is definitely in order, and I'm hoping, given that SeaWorld has a pretty good track record in terms of being into conservation, that they're doing that and just have kept things under wraps right now until they find a solution.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2010 19:53:25 GMT -5
Honestly, I think Sea World knows what orcas are capable of doing. I mean, they've been breeding the things for years. Thing is that animals like that that are bred in captivity have no wild instinct and won't do very well if released. That's why they keep them.
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