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Post by sourdoughjack on Mar 17, 2010 3:21:14 GMT -5
People complain about Rey beating big guys but want the pasty new guy to make Khali tap out qft. Seriously, this. Forget all the cred Danielson has from competing around the world, the WWE audience doesn't know who the hell he is. I was at the show today, and he actually got booed because he came out to The Miz's music. People aren't gonna know him for a while now and he'll be taking his licks along the way. Also among the people demolished by Khali, CM Punk.
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Mar 17, 2010 3:24:20 GMT -5
He'll be more than fine. Anyone legitimately freaking out over this type of stuff needs to be directed to the thread where Punk lost to Hardcore Holly on ECW. Beat me to it. The higher-ups have this thing about indy guys paying their dues. Especially the ones with huge followings a la Punk/Bryan.
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variable
AC Slater
Stroke Me Lady Fame
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Post by variable on Mar 17, 2010 6:16:18 GMT -5
they are gonna play up his perseverence. I just actually said this in another thread, but between his size, dealing with the miz, and his starting record it's all right there.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Mar 17, 2010 6:48:34 GMT -5
I was sure Bryan would win when Cole said he was 0-3 and about to be 0-4. How is this booking helping Bryan? What is this leading to? He's not beating Miz yet. He needed to make Khali tap to his leg submission tonight. Khali is a comedy character who is rarely on TV and will (thankfully) never be a top guy again. Everyone who matters has gone over him; he doesn't need to be protected. Khali is on TV every week or two. As for that leg submission Khali is large enough that if Bryan applied it Khali could just brain chop him right there. It was a good match that did nothing to hurt him. If anything I'd say Khali just standing there while Show attacked him hurt Bryan more than the match. Khali getting in the way would have said "hey, this guy just gave me a tough match and earned my respect. Don't mess with him."
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Psychoblue
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Post by Psychoblue on Mar 17, 2010 7:05:54 GMT -5
I would have been much more disbelieving if Bryan actually did beat Khali clean. The fact that he actually came close to doing so surprised me!
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
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Post by randomranter on Mar 17, 2010 9:59:49 GMT -5
I'm going to chime in and agree with most of the rest of the posts in this thread.....to a degree.
He is being booked properly. He's obviously supposed to be the underdog who has to fight much harder than the other rookies, and constantly has the odds stacked against him. There was no chance of him winning against Jericho, he didn't get pinned in the tag match, and it's ridiculous to say that Rey shouldn't be going over giants, yet expect Bryan to go over Khali.
That being said, I can understand why some people are upset. IMO, Michael Cole is going way over the top in his commentary against Bryan. I understand that Cole may be trying to play the "Heel Announcer" role like Heenan or Ventura used to, but he just doesn't know how to play the heel role while not totally burying the guy in the process. Cole makes it sound like he's got personal issues with the guy, and actually comes off as jealous and bitter. I understand commentarly along the lines of "He's a rookie therefore he has no chance". That's what heel announcers do. But Cole is going out of his way to give fans reasons not to care about him, and that (IMO) is not a way to get someone over.
There's also the fact that more often than not, WWE ends up dropping the ball. Given the WWE's past record on this, it wouldn't be entirely surprising to see Bryan end up on the wrong end of this feud and not recover, and end up right back to the indies.
So yeah....it does look like they're taking the right path in terms of a long term buildup, but the ones who are skeptical or think he's getting buried have at least some legitimate basis for their opinions.
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Post by sunnytaker on Mar 17, 2010 14:26:47 GMT -5
and next week i expect to see Danielson fight the Big Show for yet another defeat to further toughen the odds against him going into the vote the following week. Cole meanwhile will be shocked vintagely when he doesn;t get voted off the first time around "Because's he 0-5 dammit and i'm a heel here, even though i'm my usual face self on RAW, shhh don't notice!"
even Mathews this week had to ask Cole if he had some sort of personal issue with Bryan. where we learned only people with twitter followers in the millions will be enough to earn Cole's approval. might not be so bad if Cole wasn;t also doing RAW at the same time being his usual self then turning into Mr. Hyde on NXT. but being able to compare NXT Cole and RAW Cole just makes him look silly to me.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Mar 17, 2010 16:26:51 GMT -5
but being able to compare NXT Cole and RAW Cole just makes him look silly to me. It took that to make cole look silly to you?
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Mar 17, 2010 17:38:22 GMT -5
I'm a moderate Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson fan. I don't think he's the best in the world, btu I think he's pretty damn good.
I understand what the booking is for and totally see why WWE are doing it but for me its backfiring. Bryan's been getting pops, chants, a good reac tion the las few weeks. I watched his match with Khali, the crowd was DEAD. All the losing is doing is klilling is heat.
I get that its to build for a big win, to make a victory over a Pro/The Miz more special. But at this rate the fans will already no longer care. If you keep having a guy lose, fans are gonna tune out to him. Yes the Jericho loss was with pride, yes against Barrett he was hurt, yes he didnt take the fall in the tag match, yes Khali's a giant and so on. But when the guy KEEPS losing, and when you have one of the announcers constantly remind everyone how he's 0-4, people are gonna think "He's got a bit of talent, he's got guts, but he's a loser."
I think Bryan needs a win next week. Not cause I'm a mark for him or anything but to simply salvage him from the risk of the crowds tuning out. MVP's still not recovered from his losing run. My problem isn't with him losing to Khali- realistically he should lose to Khali. It's that even if you hype up and advertise a guy loads, if he never succeeds people won't care.
You can say wins & losses mean nothing when it's predetermined, but to the casual (ie. majority) of the fans, the winners are the best guys on the show, and a guy who's lost all 4 matches he's had, all cleanly, is a shmuck. It's sort of the reverse Cena Effect- he won so much people got bored, but if a guy loses too much people will get sick of him too.
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Post by maximilian on Mar 17, 2010 18:01:10 GMT -5
Exactly. Austin, Goldberg, Triple H, Cena, Batista, Orton, et al. didn't get over after being steamrollered. This isn't Japan. I can't think of a case in which a guy benefited from this knock-him-down-and-then-build-him-back-up booking in modern American wrestling.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2010 18:04:58 GMT -5
I say next week he gets his win over The Big Show. This reminds me of the time when Paul Heyman made Shannon Moore do impossible tasks and when he beat A-Train, the pop was huge and could of made Shannon Moore into a star. Then I think he became the eternal jobber for the rest of his career starting the next week after.
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Snowman
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Post by Snowman on Mar 17, 2010 20:51:38 GMT -5
Wins and losses at this stage of his wwe career don't mean anything. It's all about exposure, and right now Daniel Bryan is portrayed as the 'main character' of this show, so that should say something about where they are going with him.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Mar 17, 2010 21:37:09 GMT -5
Exactly. Austin, Goldberg, Triple H, Cena, Batista, Orton, et al. didn't get over after being steamrollered. This isn't Japan. I can't think of a case in which a guy benefited from this knock-him-down-and-then-build-him-back-up booking in modern American wrestling. Actually Orton was consistently jobbed out following losing the WHC, it wasn't until 2007 that he started to be booked as a slithering Viper capeable of winning. He didn't win much to get to that point. Heck he even lost clean to Shelton along the way. I really think a victory in a long match against somebody worth something, maybe even against Knox can help him.
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Post by calibancalhoun on Mar 17, 2010 21:45:45 GMT -5
I think its pretty obvious they're going somewhere with this, they gave him a promo package and are hyping him up pretty damn well talking about his toughness and resilience etc even when he loses
I didn't even know about this guy and Im rooting for him to finally teach the Miz a lesson, he's supposed to be losing right now so his victory is all the more satisfying later
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Mar 17, 2010 22:11:14 GMT -5
While i like the way there building up the eventual win, i can also see wwe totally dropping this cold turkey and brain fading away.
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barley96
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Post by barley96 on Mar 17, 2010 22:23:29 GMT -5
I think I see where they're going with this. The only problem is, the last time we saw a plotline reminiscent of this was Colin Delaney, who isn't in the same class as Danielson, but he was also an indy guy, and look how he fared. I think a lot of people get worried that WWE won't do right by Danielson, and having to sit through a squash match like the one tonight doesn't ease one's concerns much. Of course, the WWE wouldn't spend money and time to bring in a guy like this if they didn't think he would be ready to step up. His storyline is interesting, because his mentor hates him, it seems like everyone doesn't want him there, and as hard as he fights, the odds are against him all the time. Thus, when he makes his big time breakthrough win against a big talent, the place is going to erupt for him...provided that the WWE doesn't kill whatever momentum Bryan has going for him right now. Could not have said it better myself.
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Post by sunnytaker on Mar 18, 2010 6:48:57 GMT -5
but being able to compare NXT Cole and RAW Cole just makes him look silly to me. It took that to make cole look silly to you? well before he was just silly ala Batista silly, but at least he was just one personality then. now because of NXT he's developed a split personality disorder that he doesn;t admit to or pretend exists on either show, which raises the sillyness factor into the ludicrous zone.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Mar 18, 2010 7:56:18 GMT -5
If there is some kind of Burial, it's probably just their usual break down an outsider and rebuild him as a WWE wrestler, but I don't think that's it at all.
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Kae
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Post by Kae on Mar 18, 2010 8:54:23 GMT -5
I think I see where they're going with this. The only problem is, the last time we saw a plotline reminiscent of this was Colin Delaney, who isn't in the same class as Danielson, but he was also an indy guy, and look how he fared. I think a lot of people get worried that WWE won't do right by Danielson, and having to sit through a squash match like the one tonight doesn't ease one's concerns much. Of course, the WWE wouldn't spend money and time to bring in a guy like this if they didn't think he would be ready to step up. His storyline is interesting, because his mentor hates him, it seems like everyone doesn't want him there, and as hard as he fights, the odds are against him all the time. Thus, when he makes his big time breakthrough win against a big talent, the place is going to erupt for him...provided that the WWE doesn't kill whatever momentum Bryan has going for him right now. But, as you say, Colin Delaney isn't Bryan Danielson, and two men haven't been booked the same. Danielson came into the WWE as the biggest star in the indies, and the company knows how lucky they were to finally get him, as they've been trying to sign him for years and years now. They've spotlighted that background, and Danielson has actually put on a decent showing in every match. He made Jericho almost tap and at least scream in pain; he was badly injured in the Barrett match; he had the tag match won, but Miz interfered; he made more inroads against Khali than anyone other than world championship tier wrestlers. Also, they're building up to Danielson vs Miz, which means Danielson is already a step above the rest of the rookies. He's in a program with a pro, whom he will probably continue to beat in order to establish himself. Besides, I get the impression Danielson has had some say about his booking. He was able to request time in FCW, when they wanted to call him up to the main roster immediately. I am finding the booking slightly frustrating, though, since I think Danielson should have beaten Khali, because he could have absorbed the loss and it would have made him look amazing and shown him thwarting Miz's plans. An angry Miz could then have sent out the Big Show. That said, I think the story has direction, and I'm prepared to give it a chance.
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Mar 18, 2010 9:10:41 GMT -5
As disappointed as I am that he lost again, and as unnecessarily OTT Cole's commentary was (he realy went overboard this week), I did kinda mark out for the mid-air brain chop.
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