|
|
Post by Ultimo Chocula on Jul 7, 2010 22:22:32 GMT -5
When I worked at Hot Topic (what? it's a paycheck), I came into contact with quite a few Juggalos. Interesting people, to say the least. The only thing I've ever been able to talk to them about, at any length, is The Great Muta. They like him...I'm a fan of the guy. So they have that much going for them. Which is nice. I'm a former Hot Topic employee myself and have had many, many run ins with Juggalos. Without fail they would come in and try their absolute hardest to look bad ass. They'd swagger in, be really loud, and talk smack about anything and everything not ICP related. They had no concept of self awareness, and they had no clue that everyone was laughing at them. They were the walking stereo type of every Juggalo cliche there is. Does this mean they're all like this? No, but I'd be hard pressed to think of one experience with a Juggalo that didn't do this. |
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,013 
|
Post by chazraps on Jul 8, 2010 2:49:24 GMT -5
That was Gravediggaz, the Rza/Prince Paul collaboration that's actually fairly respected and legitimately dope. Horrorcore is all the same shlock to me. Shock garbage. Dude, I agree with you on Horrorcore as a whole, BUT the Gravediggaz album is legitimately great and a standout. You don't have two of rap's best producers in their heyday collaborate with Poetry (RIP) on something that winds up being discardable "shock garbage." The beats alone are insane. It was released in the states as 'Six Feet Under.' Seriously, check it. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 3:27:51 GMT -5
Noz: As for whether it’s worth exploring their catalog, probably not if you have been bred on traditional rap. They weren’t very good rappers from the jump and nothing in their business model has pushed them to improve. From what I can tell Anybody Killa and Dark Lotus are pretty competent rappers. This is hilarious Dark Lotus IS ICP, with additional people. So, basically, they aren't very good rappers, but they're pretty competent rappers. As for the answer in general, I couldn't agree more. Juggalos are the music equivalent of wrestling fans. They're in on the joke, they just allow themselves to buy into kayfabe while they're enjoying the albums and shows. I think they're great. People don't go crazy at concerts anymore like they used to, but Juggalos do. Even if it's their 100th show, they mark like little girls at the sight of ICP in person. It's pretty awesome. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2010 3:30:49 GMT -5
When I worked at Hot Topic (what? it's a paycheck), I came into contact with quite a few Juggalos. Interesting people, to say the least. The only thing I've ever been able to talk to them about, at any length, is The Great Muta. They like him...I'm a fan of the guy. So they have that much going for them. Which is nice. I'm a former Hot Topic employee myself and have had many, many run ins with Juggalos. Without fail they would come in and try their absolute hardest to look bad ass. They'd swagger in, be really loud, and talk smack about anything and everything not ICP related. They had no concept of self awareness, and they had no clue that everyone was laughing at them. They were the walking stereo type of every Juggalo cliche there is. Does this mean they're all like this? No, but I'd be hard pressed to think of one experience with a Juggalo that didn't do this. Hate to double post, but as a former hardcore Juggalo myself, I can confirm that the "Hot Topic Juggalos" are in fact despised by the rest of the fandom for making the majority of them look bad. Most of them are just normeal people who have many other interests and musical tastes aside from ICP, Twiztid, etc. |
|
M. Dirrty
Don Corleone
Blue Moon
Posts: 1,855
|
Post by M. Dirrty on Jul 8, 2010 6:38:34 GMT -5
*eats popcorn*
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,013
|
Post by chazraps on Jul 8, 2010 13:32:47 GMT -5
Noz: As for whether it’s worth exploring their catalog, probably not if you have been bred on traditional rap. They weren’t very good rappers from the jump and nothing in their business model has pushed them to improve. From what I can tell Anybody Killa and Dark Lotus are pretty competent rappers. This is hilarious Dark Lotus IS ICP, with additional people. So, basically, they aren't very good rappers, but they're pretty competent rappers. To be fair, if you don't follow Psychopathic, Dark Lotus and ICP records sound pretty different. Knowing people who've toured with them in both carnations, the Dark Lotus vibe was significantly different. They seem to take themselves a bit more seriously on those records. |
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,013
|
Post by chazraps on Jul 8, 2010 22:12:28 GMT -5
For the record, I posted this originally because it's a respected name in music journalism taking an interesting perspective on the subject. Thought it was worth reading.
|
|
|
|
Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 9, 2010 0:42:56 GMT -5
For the record, I posted this originally because it's a respected name in music journalism taking an interesting perspective on the subject. Thought it was worth reading. I'd agree, if the writer didn't have this ridiculous obession with "the rich vs. working class" which he brings up a lot in the article. |
|
|
|
Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Jul 9, 2010 6:41:23 GMT -5
I agree with Noz for the most part but saying they aren't very good at rapping? Compared to who? Lil Wayne? I think a lot of the hate towards them actually stems from the fact that they are white. I know some wouldn't agree but come on. If these guys were black they would be looked at as Hip Hop's version of KISS. Think about it. After Vanilla Ice got ran off and after House of Pain and 3rd Bass broke up ICP were the first mainstream white hip hop group to come along. Hell even the Beastie Boys who are huge innovators in hip hop music when it comes to playing your own music and don't get the respect that they deserve even though they aren't treated as badly as ICP(which is probably because they are much better than ICP) Take a look at Tech N9ne. His early appearance from the 2000s and his indy record label Strange Music are both extremely influenced by ICP and the horrorcore genre in general. I know he is a much better rapper than Shaggy and Violent J but he still doesn't get hated on for having a very underground core fan base like ICP does. Well, as somewhat of a rap encyclopedia, there's alot at play here I'm just going to respond to in order. They really aren't good-to-great rappers. He calls them passable. I think that part was moreso in response to the reasoning of critics to dismiss them or recommending their music to the majority of Noz's readers. The hate for ICP because they're white isn't just because they're caucazoids who happen to be rapping about what they do. When ICP were first signed to a major (Jive in 1995) it coincided with Def Jam signing an all black group who did the exact same thing, the Flatlinerz, who are everybit as despised by rap critics/audiences as ICP are. Conversely, Esham has always dwelled in similar territory at the same time but is considerably more respected. (Side note - the Beasites are considered on a pretty high pedastel in the genre so I don't know where you're getting that from). The only real issue with ICP being white is how much Juggalo culture resembles black culture being made accessible through face paint and a rejection of a certain specific urban cultural heritage that draws some pretty easy parallels with the minstrel shows of a century ago. While I think it's moreso ICP catering to the high school social outcast types and giving them a chance to enjoy all the things their "prep and "jock" cohorts do through the safe distance of clown makeup, it's a vessel for their social acceptance that just *resembles* something that could be super racist. You also have to remember that, after they expanded outside of Detroit, they were no longer marketed as a Hip-Hop act. Hollywood Records scooped them for their theatrics and didn't push for a single rapper guest appearance on 'Great Milenko.' Once that blew up, the ICP niche was carved and they became as relevant, or should I say dependent, on the genre of rap as Phish was to rock. They had made their own private Idaho so while having Snoop and ODB on a later album might have seemed like pandering, I think it's really just because they wanted to have a song with those particular established artists and this was their chance. Tech N9ne doesn't get the hate because he was cooking in more than one pot. While he was making moves with the juggalos, he was collaborating with who became the hyphy kids, who became the screw tape kids, etc. He was working with those who by chance became the heads of the biggest movements in rap's past decade and was able to snowball it all into his own success. There's as much Violent J in Tech as there is E40 or Ill Bill or Paul Wall. The race card. Always play the race card  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2010 14:33:18 GMT -5
I'm a former "hardcore juggalo." I posted in the forums, I got the tattoos, i logged hundreds of miles going to concerts, gatherings, etc. I owned all the albums, watched the movies, bought the merchandise, etc. So, I feel I'm qualified to answer this. The reasons juggalos are so rediculed is because they create this "us vs. them" mentality. Some of it may be justified, such as the well-documented exploits with MTV and the original unprovoked comments from Eminem. But, the problem is, the juggalos took it too personal. And, in the process, looked dumber than anyone could have ever made them look. As someone said, if you don't like ICP or Twiztid, you're instantly labeled. The labels range from bad to worse, but there's no forgiveness. As ICP and, by extension, the juggalo subcultre grew, so did the sense of entitlement. It started out as a sense of brotherhood and the desire to be accepted by someone. I mean, let's face it, we're fans of two kids who paint themselves like clowns. And when you find someone who is down with that, you gravitate to that. But, it went from that to "i'm a bigger juggalo than you." You don't have this T-shirt? You're a juggaho!" "You didn't like that song? Hater, fake azz juffalo!" I literally saw a guy tell a young lady who wasn't really into the band, but went to a show to be with her boyfriend, that she wasn't welcome. That douchebag attitude was originally just someone not truly representing. But, before long, that started to become the rule. I don't need to justify my level of fandom to a band, muchless their dedicated fans. And let's forget this whole juggalo family bullhockey. Let's face it, there will always be people who don't get along. don't tell me I have to like a fellow juggalo, or I, myself, wasn't a juggalo. Or, I'm a in a different sect. There is no sect. This is music, for better or worse, and all I want is to be entertained while I'm driving to work. Nothing more. I think the final straw for me came when people started taking the Dark Carnival way too far. People were literally worshiping it, almost like ICP were prophets. And talking to the husband of an old juggalo friend, I knew this lifestyle wasn't for me when he told me I should be prepaired to grab my hatchet and revolt should Violent J ever tell me to do so. In short, the whole jugglalo thing was fun when it was just an inside joke. But, juggalos are no better or worse than parrotheads. I'm guilty of most of this behavior, but the CDs and shirts have long been sold. The behavior of juggalos is so embarrassing that I couldn't even stand to listen to the CDs any more because I got tired of hearing the word That was a great post. The whole "religious" side of it is what creeps me out the most. Music is a pretty powerful thing. |
|
|
|
Post by rapidfire187 on Jul 9, 2010 14:46:36 GMT -5
Anybody Killa a competent rapper? NO
Dark Lotus is a group with basically everybody on Psychopathic, so how could they be good rappers, but ICP not be?
I'm glad that the guy spoke some sense, but he completely lost it at the end lol. Twiztid are actually very good at what they do. Both members are really good rappers when they choose to be, and can also make some incredible rock songs. Blaze ya Dead Homie is an okay rapper, but nothing special. Anybody Killa has always been terrible and doesn't even write his own rhymes from what I understand. Boondox is probably the most traditional style rapper on the label, and at times can be outright amazing.
Of course, I won't even try defending ICP here. Personally, I'll always have a soft spot for the clowns, but I'll be the first to admit that some of their albums have been complete garbage. But unlike most people I have no problem with their content, it's just that their production got really awful for a few years and they're just now improving again.
|
|
Full of IT.
ALF
If you wanna win............. make it a win.
Posts: 1,072
|
Post by Full of IT. on Jul 9, 2010 14:52:59 GMT -5
I used to be a "juggalo" when I was 13 - 14. Had all the albums and most of the t-shirts. But I grew older, and my musical tastes expanded. I lost touch completely.
Now I respect them as the incredible marketers they are.
It's funny, my current girlfriend and I dated in high school. I had the obsession with ICP and she was obsessed with Hanson. Look at both bands and they are still here today just as strong as ever. Both took similar career paths with little help from a major label, building up a huge LOYAL fan base, and selling everything but the kitchen sink to said base.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,013
|
Post by chazraps on Jul 9, 2010 16:45:54 GMT -5
Anybody Killa a competent rapper? NO Dark Lotus is a group with basically everybody on Psychopathic, so how could they be good rappers, but ICP not be? I'm glad that the guy spoke some sense, but he completely lost it at the end lol. Twiztid are actually very good at what they do. Both members are really good rappers when they choose to be, and can also make some incredible rock songs. Blaze ya Dead Homie is an okay rapper, but nothing special. Anybody Killa has always been terrible and doesn't even write his own rhymes from what I understand. Boondox is probably the most traditional style rapper on the label, and at times can be outright amazing. I'm sure he's only given them a cursory listen. He's more than likely bigging up the members of Dark Lotus who AREN'T ICP and probably Twiztid. Or he has the names confused. However, I have to say as a rap fan that the Boondox singles "They Pray With Snakes" and "Inbred Evil" are two of the absolute rap performances I've ever heard on record. I'm curious what he has that is "amazing." For serious, link me some songs. |
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,013
|
Post by chazraps on Jul 9, 2010 16:47:52 GMT -5
Well, as somewhat of a rap encyclopedia, there's alot at play here I'm just going to respond to in order. They really aren't good-to-great rappers. He calls them passable. I think that part was moreso in response to the reasoning of critics to dismiss them or recommending their music to the majority of Noz's readers. The hate for ICP because they're white isn't just because they're caucazoids who happen to be rapping about what they do. When ICP were first signed to a major (Jive in 1995) it coincided with Def Jam signing an all black group who did the exact same thing, the Flatlinerz, who are everybit as despised by rap critics/audiences as ICP are. Conversely, Esham has always dwelled in similar territory at the same time but is considerably more respected. (Side note - the Beasites are considered on a pretty high pedastel in the genre so I don't know where you're getting that from). The only real issue with ICP being white is how much Juggalo culture resembles black culture being made accessible through face paint and a rejection of a certain specific urban cultural heritage that draws some pretty easy parallels with the minstrel shows of a century ago. While I think it's moreso ICP catering to the high school social outcast types and giving them a chance to enjoy all the things their "prep and "jock" cohorts do through the safe distance of clown makeup, it's a vessel for their social acceptance that just *resembles* something that could be super racist. You also have to remember that, after they expanded outside of Detroit, they were no longer marketed as a Hip-Hop act. Hollywood Records scooped them for their theatrics and didn't push for a single rapper guest appearance on 'Great Milenko.' Once that blew up, the ICP niche was carved and they became as relevant, or should I say dependent, on the genre of rap as Phish was to rock. They had made their own private Idaho so while having Snoop and ODB on a later album might have seemed like pandering, I think it's really just because they wanted to have a song with those particular established artists and this was their chance. Tech N9ne doesn't get the hate because he was cooking in more than one pot. While he was making moves with the juggalos, he was collaborating with who became the hyphy kids, who became the screw tape kids, etc. He was working with those who by chance became the heads of the biggest movements in rap's past decade and was able to snowball it all into his own success. There's as much Violent J in Tech as there is E40 or Ill Bill or Paul Wall. The race card. Always play the race card Excuse me, Whitey? |
|
|
|
Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jul 10, 2010 10:39:29 GMT -5
I like ICP as long as they aren't actually rapping,
actually the songs I heard of theirs are good for a laugh, but I don't know if I'd necessarily call them "good" albums
but their movies/wrestling Fed are WAY more entertaining than their actual albums
|
|
|
|
Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jul 10, 2010 10:53:13 GMT -5
I agree with Noz for the most part but saying they aren't very good at rapping? Compared to who? Lil Wayne? I think a lot of the hate towards them actually stems from the fact that they are white. I know some wouldn't agree but come on. If these guys were black they would be looked at as Hip Hop's version of KISS. T Take a look at Tech N9ne. His early appearance from the 2000s and his indy record label Strange Music are both extremely influenced by ICP and the horrorcore genre in general. I know he is a much better rapper than Shaggy and Violent J but he still doesn't get hated on for having a very underground core fan base like ICP does. There is, or at least was between (2000-2008 or so) a lot of Highly Respected White rappers on the indie Front Cage El-P Sage Francis Aesop Rock Slug of Atmosphere (Fine he's half native American, but still...) Then you have a few more Mainstream White Rappers who managed to have credible careers Eminem: The obvious choice, but then again he's SO talented it's kinda unfair to mention him along the rest of these people. Bubba Sparxx: Has 1 or 2 Gold albums. Managed to release 3 albums on a major label and get his videos played on MTV/BET and other video channels, plenty of aspiring musicians would KILL for that type of success Asher Roth: This kid came almost out of nowhere and managed to get an album put on a major label like a year and a half after he came out, which is quite a feat, he's supposed to have another album coming out this year. As for ICP, yea they aren't critical darlings, but they've still managed to be insanely successful. I wouldn't call them "Good" rappers by any stretch but they ARE entertaining and they keep their fan base happy which is all a musician needs to do Also I forgot to mention that ICP have one of the most elaborate, high energy shows in hip hop |
|
|
|
Post by Dave the Dave on Jul 10, 2010 13:40:13 GMT -5
Well based on my experiences, I find that Juggalos are in fact annoying and deserve some level of bashing.
I don't have an opinion ICP, they seem like alright guys, but their fanbase is meh.
And we're at a website called WRESTLECRAP, I don't think most of us have very rigid and irony-less sense towards anything.
|
|
helped $lim jinx NXT. Woops
