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Post by Clarence "Showstealer" Mason on Feb 25, 2010 11:18:09 GMT -5
It really depends on what level you ask. If it's national then I can point to a number of things. Paul Heyman's bad money management, Jamie Kellner booting Nitro, the InVasion, WWECW. The list is endless
But I'm going to go indy for a (Dis)Honorable Mention.
The local federation I used to support was having their biggest show, they were moving to a bigger venue, they were going to get local media coverage in the papers and community tv and they brought in a star for the event, a man by the name of Chuck E Chaos (Who some crappers may remember fighting on one of the WWA pay per views, bear in mind this is Australia so Chuck was the biggest name at the time fresh off that when he was brought in). It seems a pretty easy thing right, you have a "name" star, you bring him in, face your champion, have your champion beat him and your fed and your belt look great right? Well Chuck was booked that night in the main event in a street fight against a man named Steven Rowdy......so where's the blunder?
Steven Rowdy was not the champion of the fed, he wasn't perceived as a top guy, he wasn't even a wrestler. He was THE FREAKING REFEREE!........And he won......
Did I mention this fed went broke shortly afterward?
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Post by chunkylover53 on Feb 25, 2010 11:24:05 GMT -5
Actually, the World Wildlife Fund gave Vince crap about the use of WWF initials before, but never to that level. For a long time, they were marketed as the World Wrestling Federation, but come the late 90s, the WWF got immensely popular and it was something beyond Vince's control. What he should've done however was offer the World Wildlife Fund money to change their name, or he could've paid them the money to allow past footage of old WWF events(especially The Attitude Era) to air uncensored. It would've saved them loads of money and hassle in the long run. Anyway, I would say exploiting Eddie Guerrero's death and Sgt. Slaughter being an Iraqi sympathizer were in horrible taste. I'm debating weather continuing Over The Edge 1999 after Owen Hart was killed in that freak accident was in bad taste. The World Wildlife Fund brand was a lot more established than Vince's was and they certainly had more money. Vince never would have been able to pay them off to change their name because of the PR issues and such it would entail. The irony, however, is that the organization changed its official name outside of North America to World Wide Fund for Nature, retaining the original name in the U.S. and Canada. I think I read somewhere that the World Wildlife Fund would allow WWE to use the WWF initials if they paid them enough money. Vince not doing that was a costly move.
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bigbossman
Trap-Jaw
Way hotter than Snooki.
Posts: 253
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Post by bigbossman on Feb 25, 2010 15:11:32 GMT -5
Vince breaking kayfabe, IMHO.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Feb 25, 2010 15:48:49 GMT -5
It's not the biggest boneheaded move ever, but WCW's giant guaranteed contracts that gave Hogan, Steiner, Nash, and Hall a chance to sit at home after the WCW sale and do nothing. Not having those guys available really crippled the InVasion storyline.
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Post by Snake "The Jake" Roberts on Feb 25, 2010 16:30:01 GMT -5
Vince not buying the biggest threat to the longevity of his company, the UFC, when he had the chance.
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Phil Parent
El Dandy
Your Favourite Teacher
Posts: 8,508
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Post by Phil Parent on Feb 25, 2010 17:06:26 GMT -5
Another poster has summed up my thoughts on Cowboy Bill Watts perfectly, so I won't just re-post the same arguments.
He was a man of his place and his time. In his place and his time, he was a great promoter, and he always was a great character no matter what. Even in his old age, on the WCW DVD, you can see his charisma and character shine. No wonder he was successful.
But, like it was said, he wouldn't change, he never did. He applied the mindset of Mid South 70's/80's...to a a promotion with national ambitions in the 1990's. Sure, he was a great administrator who ran a tight ship, but his problem was with trying to bring those old customs into WCW.
And people will also blame him for nepotism, because he brought in and pushed his son Erik. Well, I don't know of any booker that was in a position to do it that didn't, so that's the nature of the beast. Hart, Rougeau, Funk, Gagne, McMahon, Graham, Rhodes, Von Erich...they all did it. And if they don't have any family to push, they'll push their friends, it's only human.
And Erik wasn't that bad. He was rushed, he was green, but he had potential. He just needed to wrestle more out of the spotlight. Had he came through the territorial system and came to WCW after wrestling 3-4 years instead of 3-4 months like he did, the guy would have been a way better hand for sure but you can't blame him for taking a job, just like you can't blame the Cowboy for giving him one.
My comment was that Cowboy Bill Watts, in WCW, was a backwards booker and ship captain. Backwards as in going against the grain, in a retrograde fashion. I in no way ignore the man's successes and qualities. Frankly, he's one of those few wrestling people I'd like to sit down with to talk about wrestling.
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Post by Hugh Mungus on Feb 25, 2010 17:53:04 GMT -5
...turning Austin heel at WM 17 I dunno about the BIGGEST blunder, but I'd nominate: - Turning SCSA from the #1 face to the #3 heel (as lackey to Vince and 3H). To be fair, Austin WANTED to turn heel at or after WM17 to refresh his character. Here's some other boneheaded moves: *"That'll put put some butts in the seats!" *RVD (and Sabu)'s arrest, blowing his chance to get over with the crowd
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Post by chunkylover53 on Feb 26, 2010 0:24:58 GMT -5
Vince breaking kayfabe, IMHO. Please elaborate. I'm very interested on this one.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Feb 26, 2010 9:27:37 GMT -5
"lol I'll pretend u said 18"
I have friends who still won't watch ROH because of Feinstein.
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Post by sweatpants on Feb 26, 2010 9:34:53 GMT -5
"lol I'll pretend u said 18" I have friends who still won't watch ROH because of Feinstein. Do they not know that he hasn't been involved with ROH since mid-2004?
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Post by bitteroldman on Feb 26, 2010 18:56:54 GMT -5
Vince breaking kayfabe, IMHO. Please elaborate. I'm very interested on this one. "In 1989 Vince McMahon testified before the New Jersey State Senate that his product was not a bona fide competition and that wrestling matches were staged events." Taken from a bio of VKM www.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Bios/mcmahon-vince.htm
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DavidArquette
Don Corleone
The actor formerly known as avanteproject
Posts: 1,542
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Post by DavidArquette on Feb 26, 2010 19:31:47 GMT -5
Even though they weren't particularly hurt by it, I'd say that Vince and co. missed out on the most profitable angle of all time by not buying out the contracts of the WCW wrestlers that weren't included with the purchase of WCW. If Hogan, Flair, and Goldberg were brought in at the start of the Invasion instead of after the disappointing McMahon vs. McMahon angle, Vince could be swimming in his (even larger) Scrooge McDuck-style money pool. This x37
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Post by jobsquad on Feb 26, 2010 20:05:27 GMT -5
I am gonna nominate 2 selections from WCW 2000:
The whole Goldberg shoot angle where he walks off in mid match at New Blood Rising. Only to return the next night to work with Tank Abbot and end up on his new 'streak', which required him to work more matches.
Then we have the New Blood angle to begin with. So, lets stick all the main eventers in one stable, and the mid carders in another and see what happens.
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Post by mcclanahan on Feb 26, 2010 20:13:42 GMT -5
me agreeing to do worked MMA...just because it was 3 shows a week that didn't get in the way of my real bookings and 500 per show
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Feb 26, 2010 22:01:55 GMT -5
Let's hire that Russo guy. His style of booking will totally not clash with the image Time Warner seeks to promote.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Feb 26, 2010 23:57:18 GMT -5
Please elaborate. I'm very interested on this one. "In 1989 Vince McMahon testified before the New Jersey State Senate that his product was not a bona fide competition and that wrestling matches were staged events." Taken from a bio of VKM www.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/Bios/mcmahon-vince.htmWell people already knew at that point that it was staged, what difference would it make if Vince McMahon said it? My problem with lack of kayfabe is the internet that reveals every little thing. I don't have a problem with knowing its staged, but when you know the secrets of it, and that these people who are pretending to kill each other in the ring are really friends, it takes away the illusion of it.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Feb 27, 2010 0:16:07 GMT -5
WCW not pushing new talent which drove away Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, and Eddy Guerrero. this was the death knell of WCW. WWE changing WWECW from a version of its former self to WWE's C show. Ratings were higher when WWECW was more geared towards the IWC. A lot of people will think of me as a moron, but WWE not pushing Christian prior to his TNA run. I believe that Christian helped elevate TNA with his rivalries against Samoa Joe and Sting. Now TNA is ready to go to war with WWE. How about TNA letting Christian go back to the WWE and not trying harder to resign the guy. The guy was great there and made the ME picture better from the moment he came in.
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Feb 27, 2010 11:19:28 GMT -5
I am gonna nominate 2 selections from WCW 2000: The whole Goldberg shoot angle where he walks off in mid match at New Blood Rising. Only to return the next night to work with Tank Abbot and end up on his new 'streak', which required him to work more matches. Then we have the New Blood angle to begin with. So, lets stick all the main eventers in one stable, and the mid carders in another and see what happens. "Everything else is fake, but this **** just got real!" That kind of crap made me quit watching WCW. There was nothing worse than hearing Mark Madden going on about shoots and works and having no idea what the hell he was talking about. It didn't help that until I really started posting online I assumed that the Millionaire's Club were the heels and the New Bloods were the faces. I mean, it's one thing to have stories based in reality (ex. The Helmsley-Mcmahon era) but it's another thing to come out and say everything's fake. It would be like having a Jackie Chan film and saying "Oh, here's how he does all of his stunts" right at the begining of the movie. Said movie would also change the plot halfway through just to mess with viewers. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Brand Split. Hey, let's give people the illusion of competition by turning our shows into two different brands, but we'll ignore one most of the time and make sure everyone knows it's crap in our eyes. Then, when everyone assumes that the entire promotion sucks because of one of the two shows being bad we'll just think it's because no one likes the show, not because the product we put out isn't watchable to most people. If they still hate it, we'll come out and say "FINE WE DON'T NEED U ANYWAYZ"
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Post by Citizen Snips on Feb 27, 2010 14:35:08 GMT -5
The nWo angle not climaxing at Starrcade 97. Imagine WCW's 1998 consisting of the Hollywood and Wolf Pac factions going to war with each other (without the title involved) following Hogan's loss to Sting, while Sting defends the title against the likes of DDP, Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Raven, etc before facing off with Goldberg in the summer.
If they hadn't been so stale by the time Austin won the title, there's a good chance the War could've gone on longer.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Feb 27, 2010 14:39:55 GMT -5
I hate the brand split because they've never tried to be serious about it. Guys will randomly show up on whichever show the writing team decides they need to be on that week, which kills any chance of viewing them as 2 separate entities. Then when ECW came along, they were showing up there, too.
In order for something like that to work, you'd have to give the people reason to believe that they are truly two individual branches, completely separate of one another.
In theory, it should have also led to more main event stars being created since the established stars were now spread over 2 shows. This didn't really happen either.
I'd say the failure of the brand split was more in its execution and not in its conception.
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