The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,295
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 13, 2010 5:57:30 GMT -5
Not just the guest hosts, but the fact that only 30% of them have been any good and 10% haven't flubbed their lines or made some other mistake.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Apr 13, 2010 8:13:48 GMT -5
Agree with everything. This Guest Host thing has been REEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY dragged out. Not that it should've been there in the first place.
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Post by Big Daddy Bad Booking on Apr 13, 2010 8:24:00 GMT -5
A lot of those are vaild reasons, like how it seems everyone has zero personality, the Divas division across both brands feels like a joke, AND, WWE neutering feuds because of their "family-friendly" policy. The guest hosts I think add variety to RAW, but that is where the problem lies: THERE ISN'T ENOUGH WRESTLING ON RAW! I mean, lord forbid if there is a match longer than seven minutes on that show anymore. Hornswoggle isn't the worst thing ever, but he is a thorn in everyone's eye right now.
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Post by Neo Het Is Evil Dead on Apr 13, 2010 8:31:07 GMT -5
Having wrestler's memorize there promos instead of making them on the spot or having people write the wrestler's promos for them instead of having them write them themselves.
It doesn't even make any sense with there "no manager" policy. They want wrestlers to get over own there but they don't want them to write there own promos. It's just dumb and takes away from the show.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Apr 13, 2010 11:50:57 GMT -5
What no Cena super push option. Tsk tsk for shame KOW, for shame.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,723
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Apr 13, 2010 11:58:08 GMT -5
Hornswoggle is just a waste of screentime. Main events are often quite uninspired. Not enough wrestling, and as someone mentioned, the in-ring product isnt that great. Being PG is not a problem, as I dont really care for hardcore wrestling, and you can still make wrestling entertaining without the use of blood/weapons. A talented Divas division is booked by a room full of chimps. (Maryse and Eve just fought for a title, yet Nattie Neidhart and Serena are valets) Swagger shouldn't be champ, MVP shouldnt have had the losing streak, the Daniel Bryan booking is abysmal, Sheamus is starting to find his ground, although he should be a face. John Morrison is made to look incredibly bland, even though he was one of the most entertaining heels of recent memory. And can the guest hosts already. Flava Flav? Nancy O'Dell? Really? REALLY? REALLY? To be fair, Nancy [and moreso her sidekick Maria] were on the better end up guest hosts.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Apr 13, 2010 12:01:35 GMT -5
Less wrestling
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Post by madness50 on Apr 13, 2010 20:16:00 GMT -5
The thing I hate about the WWE today is that the main event on RAW ALWAYS ends with a ton of interference and run-ins. I find this hypocritical by Vince due to the fact JR, Cole, King etc. made jabs at WCW for their shows ending with run-ins way back in 1999.
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Post by Citizen Grimm on Apr 13, 2010 20:41:03 GMT -5
Its defintely a mix of things, ranging from the stale main event scene to the tiresome guesthosts. But what I think is the main problem is the lack of characters on the show.
Every since pro wrestling's been around, wrestlers have always had characters that could seem larger than life, even if they were a bit cartoony. You had guys like Ted Dibiase (an evil millionare), the Ultimate Warrior (a complete psycho), and Sgt. Slaughter (a military man).
Who do we have now that stands out as a character?
Undertaker, Orton, Miz, and Punk are the only ones I can think of. We need more guys to stand out rather than be Generic Babyface #18 and Cowardly Heel #291. Give the fans a reason to care about the character.
Take Kofi for example. What sort of character does Kofi get from his gimmick? Does he even have a gimmick? No, he's just an athletic, high flying wrestler. That's not horrible but when you have so many other guys like that (Morrison, Bourne, R-Truth) it just doesn't cut it.
Now look at Orton. He's nicknamed the Viper and does a lot of snakish mannerisms now in the ring. Did those things get him so over, no, but they help him stand out from other wrestlers and make him more noticeable.
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Subrick
ALF
Dennis Miller? More Like Dennis FILLER amirite?
Posts: 1,008
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Post by Subrick on Apr 13, 2010 20:54:50 GMT -5
Hornswoggle: He annoys the f*** out of EVERYONE watching above the age of 11. There is nothing remotely funny or entertaining about seeing a dirt faced midget run around with no purpose while grunting.
The Main Event: In the last five years, we have had Cena, Edge, Orton, Batista, Hunter, and Taker as the only guys in the main event. Create some new stars goddammit! And whatever new guys they put in the main event (Swagger, Sheamus), they have either no charisma or are sapped of all charisma the moment they win the belt. This is why I loved the Jeff Hardy/CM Punk feud last year: It created two new stars and added something fresh and new to a stale scene.
Not Enough Wrestling: Raw is not a wrestling show. Raw is a 2 hour variety show with wrestling matches being the afterthought. Smackdown and NXT are actual wrestling shows, in that the wrestling is above all else. I remember seeing that match times breakdown for Raw and Smackdown last week, and I was shocked that the Raw main event was only slightly longer than 10 minutes, while Jericho vs. Edge was longer than their Wrestlemania match.
WWE Being Family Friendly: One thing I loved about the Attitude Era was that it was realistic. With a few exceptions (mainly Kane and Satan Undertaker), it was gritty and realistic and pulled no punches. 10 years later, we've regressed to the point that they are censoring the word "piss". When I watch a wrestling show, I wanna see two guys kick the crap out of each other, not this tip toe product we have now.
Divas division: The Divas matches in today's time are nothing more than glorified snack/piss breaks. The matches themselves are jokes, with blown spots galore and rarely attaining a time over a couple of minutes. The actual women themselves are AWFUL in the ring, and the few women that can wrestle are either underutilized or not used at all (would you just let Natalya beat up someone?!)
Booking Of Newer Talent: This is a particular problem Raw has. Anyone not named Cena, Orton, or Hunter is made to look pussy footed and weak or dry and charisma-less. The angle with Legacy's implosion particularly sticks out in my mind. Rhodes and DiBiase were made to look no more than Orton's lackeys, and when they wrestled him, they were annihilated. Another problem I have is with Swagger's booking since he won the title. The MOMENT he won the belt from Jericho, every last bit of charisma he had magically left him, and now he's no more than a 2009 Jericho ripoff. Not to mention he got beat by Orton on Raw, making him look weak. Drew McIntyre is the same too. He comes out to ZERO reaction (we all know those boos are piped in in post) and is also a charisma-less drone, yet they are pushing him to the moon. The angle with Teddy Long overturning his losses was f***ing stupid, and he beats a f***ing jobber to get into MiTB at Wrestlemania. I used to think Sheamus was also another drone, but since losing the belt I've warmed up to him a bit. The undercard on Raw is pathetic. Everyone is exactly the same and the matches are exactly the same. On Smackdown, everyone has their own personality (except Morrison, who is ODIN AWFUL as a face). The way they're booking Bryan Danielson on NXT is making me rage. If yer gonna build a brand around one guy, one whom you've wanted for years, then LET HIM f***ING WIN A MATCH! Not to mention Cole's commentary isn't helping him at all.
Guest Hosts on Raw: The guest host thing I thought was interesting at first. The first few shows they had actual wrestlers hosting the show, and they knew what the hell they were doing. It started to get bad with the ZZ Top show, the Shaq show hurt more, and it all went to s*** with the Piven Raw (which, seeing as I was in attendance for it, I feel is one of the worst wrestling shows ever put on). On very rare occasions do we get a good host (Piper for instance was one of the best, as well as Cheech and Chong), but it's gotten to the point that they're getting D-Listers (Flavor Flav), celebrisluts (Tila Tequila, who has admitted in interviews that she DOESN'T WATCH WRESTLING), and people 90% of the crowd has never heard of (Ty Murray, Dennis Miller, Jon Lovitz). And NONE of them can act good in a wrestling show setting. Miller's jokes fell on deaf ears, the Nascar guys f***ed up every line they had, and almost every one of them haven't a f***ing clue as to what the product is.
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Post by Scott Norton's Only Fan on Apr 13, 2010 21:28:31 GMT -5
Most of these guys are great athletes but let's face it, almost none of them have a personality worth anything. I think that, combined with poor booking of new talent is hurting the product more than anything else. And yes, Raw is a terrible show centered mostly around the "guest hosts," so really it's a combination of a bunch of different things.
The Divas all suck but have women wrestlers ever been relevant enough to affect the product that much?
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Post by Raja Lion on Apr 13, 2010 21:35:51 GMT -5
Its all down to the writing/creative.
While I am not a fan of "family friendly" at all, wrestling can be family friendly but still be gripping enough for the adult to enjoy. The guest host thing is a bit stale, but its only on one show and as mentioned, its a symptom of creative not being able to fulfill their obligations. Certainly, they could've written a wrestler or at least someone with legit ties to the business to come in and be a proper GM.
It all comes down to Stephanie and Johnny Ace. Stephanie as head of creative and Johnny Ace as talent relations. Its no surprise the entire product has basically gone down the shitter since Ace replaced JR.
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Dean-o
Grimlock
Haha we're having fun Maggle!
Posts: 13,865
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Post by Dean-o on Apr 13, 2010 21:39:39 GMT -5
The main thing I hate is how they prove to us time and time again that NOTHING matters. Wins & losses don't seem to ever matter, unless they are part of a storyline.
- PPV main event matches given rematches on free tv. - Titles mean nothing because they change hands so quickly and champions lose non-title matches on an almost weekly basis. - The RAW Guest Host program, which is pathetic. - Them calling us the "WWE Universe" - Michael Cole on commentary
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Post by Mayonnaise on Apr 13, 2010 21:40:25 GMT -5
I think it's Vince. Family friendly can be done quite well as they showed from the mid 80's to the early to mid 90's but, instead of writing a product capitalizes on pop culture and taps the pulse of the mainstream, they write to get the approval of a 64 year old man that finds necrophilia to be hip and funny.
People love to crap on Johnny Ace and Steph but, if Vince thought they were doing a bad job, they'd be gone. They are simply doing what it takes to please Papa.
The man busts his ass but, there is a reason there are not many seniors writing TV.
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Post by RedSmile on Apr 13, 2010 22:13:09 GMT -5
I think its the fact that the WWE is too busy trying to entertain an audience that they don't necessarily have. They produce a product in order to appeal to the casual fan, not the loyalist who they do have. When a good show is produced, that entertains the loyalists, those loyalists spread the word to casual fans.
The sad part about this, is the fact that there was a time when I COULD NOT miss a wrestling show. Mind you this was long before the Monday Night Wars of the late 90's. I was a diehard loyalist who watched WWF, WCW, and ECW every weekend, with only few exceptions. I planned my weekend around it. Homework, hanging with friends, etc.
It has gotten to the point though that I really can't watch anything besides ROH or classic matches from Youtube. TNA had me hooked into their product before the change of focus in January. Every now and again I will read stuff and see that Im not really missing anything. I still like Edge and Christian and several others. But the MTV approach to pro wrestling with C-list celebrities, Hollywood flunkies for writers, and repeated instances of inexplicable "droppings of the ball" have completely turned me away from mainstream wrestling.
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Post by "The Rated XXX Superstar" Jed on Apr 13, 2010 22:50:39 GMT -5
7. Hornswaggle-Never understood the hate this guy gets. Sure his character is annoying and he's booked horribly, but nothing about the guy makes him stick out as ZOMG TEH WURST TING ABOWT RAW!!!!1!!1! 6. Not Enough Wrestling-Sufficient wrestling/promo balance. More of an Impact issue than Raw. 5. The Main Event-Suffices, but would like to see some more new blood enter. 4. Booking of New Talent-Of all the potential young talent WWE has, they pick Sheamus & Swagger to get the big push? Really? Really? 3. The Divas-Maybe it's because I'm gay, but I just have no interest in seeing a bunch of bimbos screeching, slapping, and pulling hair. I want women's wrestling dangit! 2. Family Friendly-Stop treating us adults like kids, and kids like babies. I grew up in the Attitude Era and am no worse for wear. Let the men be men. 1. Guest Hosts-EPIC FAIL!!!
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Post by psychokiller on Apr 13, 2010 23:45:10 GMT -5
I voted for the guest hosts of Raw. Not because I hate the concept of it, more so of the hosts that they have for it. There hasn't been a good host in months imo. They need to have hosts that people actually care about, not a bunch of nascar drivers or generic actors noone cares about.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Apr 13, 2010 23:51:02 GMT -5
Ooh, I just thought of one, no single world champion. Would make things seem a lot more important, I think.
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Post by Robbymac on Apr 13, 2010 23:52:13 GMT -5
Always the divas
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Apr 14, 2010 1:09:10 GMT -5
It's alot of things, but the problem is on RAW more than anything.
They drafted Mark Henry, Evan Bourne, Jack Swagger, MVP, and the Colons from other shows and put them on RAW to do absolutely nothing. A guy as popular and entertaining as Bourne is should not be put on TV once a month on RAW for a squash and then 3 times a month on Superstars. Even WCW found a way to get Rey Jr. on tv almost every week in competitive matches when he had the cruiserweight division on fire.
All of the guys who have different looks and who have personality are fodder for the bland, half-naked legacy boys and the guy who stole Jericho's partner and trunks.
The guys who can talk on the mic are nowhere near one. MVP, Christian, Carlito & Kofi barely do an interview, let alone get any camera time backstage, unless they're getting beat down. Unless you're main event, you have no direction whatsoever. The guest host crap also takes time away from having another entertaining match.
The Divas division is an abomination. The WWE keeps the talented divas away from the belt and always books these girls in 4 on 4 or 5 on 5 gimmick matches so The King can drool and Michael Cole can tell everyone that they're "Smart, Sexy and Powerful".
The Main Event scene is stale as ever and you can't get through the glass ceiling if you're not part of the "Buddy System". Don't forget the numerous recaps that take up more time than the divas or mid card match.
The guest host thing is probably the worst thing that's happened to RAW. Who tunes into a wrestling show to see what William Shatner or The Hoff is going to do? The people who watch the show tune in to see the action, not the guest hosts. They take so much away from the show, it's sad.
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