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Post by Rorschach on May 2, 2010 12:47:19 GMT -5
By comparison, I actually feel like I got to know the characters in the original far better than I did here. Hell, I can say the exact same thing while comparing it to a plethora of other slasher films new and old, not just the original NOES. With it being my favorite of all the horror subgenres, I have seen in excess of 200 slasher films, and this had to be one of the worst examples I've ever seen. There was just a complete and total inability to make me care about them, made even more frustrating by the fact that I found myself WANTING to, but ultimately couldn't. And you're not wrong in any of that, Guy. The original DID do a better job building up its characters, but this is what I'm saying here: somebody (and I'm talking theoretically anybody here, not just PD) has the rights to do a remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street. So why settle for doing something equally as well as the original movie? I'd like to see these writers and directors show a little more ambition; the goal of a remake should be, to this reporter, to improve on the original film. To go all-out and truly hit a home run. Very subjective here, but I'm someone who grades movies on primarily an emotional scale, and I'd like to see a LOT of characterization and interaction, making the personalities pop out at you to the point that every member of the audience identifies with at least one of them. Yes, this new movie was actually WORSE at getting you into the characters than the original film - I agree on that point. But what would be the problem with improving on that aspect of Craven's story? I don't know, it seems like this is one of those things that I'll be forever destined to beat my head against the wall trying to convince people of and failing miserably at. ;D Right on. And you know something else, TR? The thing that gets me is...and I pointed this out in the "official" thread too...if you're doing a remake, why f*** around with things that DO NOT need fixing, and yet ignore the things that DO need tightening up? The goal of any remake, be it KING KONG, or KINGDOM OF THE ANTS or whatever...is to make it BETTER than it was before, to improve on whatever weaknesses were there in the original. You have the blueprint (and in most of these cases, it's a damn good one, because it's stood the test of time this long) to go by...now you just look at the plans of the original architect and examine where their foundation could use some strengthening. And yet...PD manages to continuously screw these up. I have to believe that a good reason for that is because you know...the ORIGINALS were made by fans, FOR fans. All the original names had at least a small bit of love for the horror genre...Craven, Hooper, Carpenter...they all had a soft spot in their hearts for boogeymen and things that go bump in the night. Form/Fuller? They'll TELL you they're fans....but the only thing THEY seem to be a fan of is the almighty $$. I have to believe that, because no self respecting FAN could do what they've done to some of the icons of the genre and look themselves in the eye in the mirror the next morning. And you know, that's one of the things that pisses me off, and saddens me the most, guys. It's the fact that MY generation knew the original iterations of Freddy, Jason and Leatherface and Myers. We knew these films for what they really were: a GOOD time at the theater, with some decent scares and some truly awesome moments involving iconic boogeymen. We knew they weren't Oscar winners, or Shakespeare in the park....that's not why we kept coming back for more of them...we came back time and again because they were FUN, and they had, even at their WORST, a personality and soul to them, and hell, they were GREAT date movies! This generation, though....thanks to Form and Fuller, they won't know the joy of having a really FUN, great NOES, or TCM, or F13 film with iconic characters like Tommy Jarvis, or Nancy Thompson or Sally Hardesty battling the big bads. All THEY know is that these movies SUCK, really, really bad. These once iconic slashers have been reduced by Platinum Dunes to just more run of the mill schlock, no different than the piss poor s*** you see on the DTV shelves at Blockbuster. *SIGH*
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on May 2, 2010 12:54:23 GMT -5
Right on. And you know something else, TR? The thing that gets me is...and I pointed this out in the "official" thread too...if you're doing a remake, why f*** around with things that DO NOT need fixing, and yet ignore the things that DO need tightening up? The goal of any remake, be it KING KONG, or KINGDOM OF THE ANTS or whatever...is to make it BETTER than it was before, to improve on whatever weaknesses were there in the original. You have the blueprint (and in most of these cases, it's a damn good one, because it's stood the test of time this long) to go by...now you just look at the plans of the original architect and examine where their foundation could use some strengthening. Exactly. It amazed me that with this remake they changed all of the stuff that worked PERFECTLY in the original (Freddy's back story, Lieutenant Thompson NOT EVEN FRIGGIN' BEING THERE, etc.), and kept all the stuff that was a little suspect exactly the same. I'll throw my own *sigh* back at ya for the NOES series as a whole. It struck me when I was sitting in the theater watching the remake that earlier in the day I watched those two Ju-On flicks, and the contrast couldn't be more stark. I mean, here's a series that can try something radically different with each successive film, and it's still able to easily call itself Ju-On or The Grudge. By contrast, the Nightmare on Elm Street series, which no doubt has an INFINITELY more ingenious concept (and some would say it was even the inspiration for Ju-On), has only had all of its stars and planets aligned ONCE (with debate, twice, since everyone outnumbers me on Nightmare 1 ).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 13:01:19 GMT -5
This generation, though....thanks to Form and Fuller, they won't know the joy of having a really FUN, great NOES, or TCM, or F13 film with iconic characters like Tommy Jarvis, or Nancy Thompson or Sally Hardesty battling the big bads. All THEY know is that these movies SUCK, really, really bad. These once iconic slashers have been reduced by Platinum Dunes to just more run of the mill schlock, no different than the piss poor s*** you see on the DTV shelves at Blockbuster. *SIGH* I know the feeling about this generation. I honestly wish I was 10 years older. I wouldn't have to suffer myself to such intolerance. So I feel for you, really. Anyways, ANOES pulled in $32.2 million this week. But there shouldn't be any worry, because it's a horror film, this thing is going to go down 60-70% regardless on it's second week...probably even more when you have the beginning of the summer movie season next week. Look at Hellboy II.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on May 2, 2010 13:05:21 GMT -5
I know the feeling about this generation. I honestly wish I was 10 years older. I wouldn't have to suffer myself to such intolerance. So I feel for you, really. Anyways, ANOES pulled in $32.2 million this week. But there shouldn't be any worry, because it's a horror film, this thing is going to go down 60-70% regardless on it's second week...probably even more when you have the beginning of the summer movie season next week. Look at Hellboy II. Fortunate one, right here. I'm 26, which is just a bit too young to be there for the prime of most of these long-standing series, but I had older siblings who introduced me to the Jasons and Freddys and Michaels of the world at an early age. So let's hear it for big brothers and sisters. ;D Even with that impressive box office number, I'm actually a little skeptical as to whether or not they'll get any sort of sequel out of this movie, let alone a franchise. After all, Friday the 13th 2009 was massively profitable, and THAT sequel has already been killed deader than a fornicating teen around Mr. J himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 13:27:52 GMT -5
I know the feeling about this generation. I honestly wish I was 10 years older. I wouldn't have to suffer myself to such intolerance. So I feel for you, really. Anyways, ANOES pulled in $32.2 million this week. But there shouldn't be any worry, because it's a horror film, this thing is going to go down 60-70% regardless on it's second week...probably even more when you have the beginning of the summer movie season next week. Look at Hellboy II. Fortunate one, right here. I'm 26, which is just a bit too young to be there for the prime of most of these long-standing series, but I had older siblings who introduced me to the Jasons and Freddys and Michaels of the world at an early age. So let's hear it for big brothers and sisters. ;D See, I never had the older sibling who was like that. Like i've mentioned before, I have the younger sibling who's like that though, so that's how I got into this world. Seeing the Jasons and Freddys and Michaels and Pinheads...that was all me. I had to do that by myself. Mighty big task watching those by yourself for the first time. Least with company around you, it becomes easier to swallow. I'm that kind of person. I don't want to feel uneasy watching a movie, even if it is a horror film. I understand why people like the genre, because of those reasons...but not for me.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on May 2, 2010 13:27:56 GMT -5
By comparison, I actually feel like I got to know the characters in the original far better than I did here. Hell, I can say the exact same thing while comparing it to a plethora of other slasher films new and old, not just the original NOES. With it being my favorite of all the horror subgenres, I have seen in excess of 200 slasher films, and this had to be one of the worst examples I've ever seen. There was just a complete and total inability to make me care about them, made even more frustrating by the fact that I found myself WANTING to, but ultimately couldn't. And you're not wrong in any of that, Guy. The original DID do a better job building up its characters, but this is what I'm saying here: somebody (and I'm talking theoretically anybody here, not just PD) has the rights to do a remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street. So why settle for doing something equally as well as the original movie? I'd like to see these writers and directors show a little more ambition; the goal of a remake should be, to this reporter, to improve on the original film. To go all-out and truly hit a home run. Very subjective here, but I'm someone who grades movies on primarily an emotional scale, and I'd like to see a LOT of characterization and interaction, making the personalities pop out at you to the point that every member of the audience identifies with at least one of them. Yes, this new movie was actually WORSE at getting you into the characters than the original film - I agree on that point. But what would be the problem with improving on that aspect of Craven's story? I don't know, it seems like this is one of those things that I'll be forever destined to beat my head against the wall trying to convince people of and failing miserably at. ;D Oh, no, I perfectly understood what you were getting at. I'm not insinuating that we should settle for the remake; if anything, I'm insinuating the opposite. I'm merely saying that the original handles that aspect of the story with greater depth than the remake...ultimately making the remake pretty damn pointless if that's what they were going for. I said it in the first paragraph of my review, I don't quite grasp how the original film's detractors feel as though it needed some tremendous emotional depth to truly make it compelling. Yes, the concept was different, but it's still a slasher film. Like Halloween and Friday the 13th before it, I find it easy to marvel at the simplicity of the story and how well it works. Child murderer gets lynched, and returns as a vengeful spirit that can kill his victims through their dreams. I don't think there is any tremendous emotional depth to the characters that required exploration, which is why I enjoy it as it is, and still stand by the film as being deserving of its "classic" status. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this subject for the umpteenth time ;D And you know, that's one of the things that pisses me off, and saddens me the most, guys. It's the fact that MY generation knew the original iterations of Freddy, Jason and Leatherface and Myers. We knew these films for what they really were: a GOOD time at the theater, with some decent scares and some truly awesome moments involving iconic boogeymen. We knew they weren't Oscar winners, or Shakespeare in the park....that's not why we kept coming back for more of them...we came back time and again because they were FUN, and they had, even at their WORST, a personality and soul to them, and hell, they were GREAT date movies! This generation, though....thanks to Form and Fuller, they won't know the joy of having a really FUN, great NOES, or TCM, or F13 film with iconic characters like Tommy Jarvis, or Nancy Thompson or Sally Hardesty battling the big bads. All THEY know is that these movies SUCK, really, really bad. These once iconic slashers have been reduced by Platinum Dunes to just more run of the mill schlock, no different than the piss poor s*** you see on the DTV shelves at Blockbuster. *SIGH* I feel as though I'm one of the last members of the older generation of horror fans. I got hooked on these franchises during the hype and build-up for Freddy Vs. Jason, which was an admittedly fun, enjoyable slasher flick. Compare that to yesterday, where I literally heard people right behind me that were LAUGHING at the NOES remake. The times have certainly changed, even compared to the mere 7 years ago when I discovered these films. Le sigh.
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Post by Rorschach on May 2, 2010 14:01:39 GMT -5
This generation, though....thanks to Form and Fuller, they won't know the joy of having a really FUN, great NOES, or TCM, or F13 film with iconic characters like Tommy Jarvis, or Nancy Thompson or Sally Hardesty battling the big bads. All THEY know is that these movies SUCK, really, really bad. These once iconic slashers have been reduced by Platinum Dunes to just more run of the mill schlock, no different than the piss poor s*** you see on the DTV shelves at Blockbuster. *SIGH* I know the feeling about this generation. I honestly wish I was 10 years older. I wouldn't have to suffer myself to such intolerance. So I feel for you, really. Anyways, ANOES pulled in $32.2 million this week. But there shouldn't be any worry, because it's a horror film, this thing is going to go down 60-70% regardless on it's second week...probably even more when you have the beginning of the summer movie season next week. Look at Hellboy II. I don't mean to be age-ist, or anything like that...I mean, I know that the originals are still there for the younger crowd to go and discover on DVD and Blu Ray...but all the same....their generation's iterations of these characters and films are just...they're so subpar. It's sad because as TR says...this really could have been a chance to bring back the magic of these films for a new generation...get them hooked as the originals hooked my generation. Make NEW horror fans to carry the torch, you know? But instead, it feels like with each successive failed reboot/remake, Platinum Dunes is driving more people away from the genre. if their company was a wrestling federation, PD would be killing the drawing power of the main eventers, and making their world title worthless. Also, I have to believe that Jim Cornette would have sworn a fatwa on either Form or Fuller by now. ;D Hell, sometimes *I* feel like the Jim Cornette of these threads, getting wound up and ranting and raving and spitting fire and pissing lava all over Platinum Dunes, who are my personal Vince Russo. ;D
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on May 2, 2010 14:23:10 GMT -5
I know the feeling about this generation. I honestly wish I was 10 years older. I wouldn't have to suffer myself to such intolerance. So I feel for you, really. Anyways, ANOES pulled in $32.2 million this week. But there shouldn't be any worry, because it's a horror film, this thing is going to go down 60-70% regardless on it's second week...probably even more when you have the beginning of the summer movie season next week. Look at Hellboy II. I don't mean to be age-ist, or anything like that...I mean, I know that the originals are still there for the younger crowd to go and discover on DVD and Blu Ray...but all the same....their generation's iterations of these characters and films are just...they're so subpar. It's sad because as TR says...this really could have been a chance to bring back the magic of these films for a new generation...get them hooked as the originals hooked my generation. Make NEW horror fans to carry the torch, you know? But instead, it feels like with each successive failed reboot/remake, Platinum Dunes is driving more people away from the genre. if their company was a wrestling federation, PD would be killing the drawing power of the main eventers, and making their world title worthless. Also, I have to believe that Jim Cornette would have sworn a fatwa on either Form or Fuller by now. ;D Hell, sometimes *I* feel like the Jim Cornette of these threads, getting wound up and ranting and raving and spitting fire and pissing lava all over Platinum Dunes, who are my personal Vince Russo. ;D It's a shame Cornette isn't a horror fan (at least to my knowledge). I'd pay good money to hear him rip some of these movies to shreds ;D
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
From the eerie, eerie depths of Lake Okabena
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on May 2, 2010 14:43:23 GMT -5
I said it in the first paragraph of my review, I don't quite grasp how the original film's detractors feel as though it needed some tremendous emotional depth to truly make it compelling. Yes, the concept was different, but it's still a slasher film. Like Halloween and Friday the 13th before it, I find it easy to marvel at the simplicity of the story and how well it works. Child murderer gets lynched, and returns as a vengeful spirit that can kill his victims through their dreams. I don't think there is any tremendous emotional depth to the characters that required exploration, which is why I enjoy it as it is, and still stand by the film as being deserving of its "classic" status. I think I've finally found the root of our little polite disagreement. ;D IMO, Nightmare on Elm Street IS different from the other classic slasher flicks. It may have only had ambitions, originally, to be just another low-budget but profitable movie amongst the crowd of them coming out at the time. Only its concept, and its character of Freddy Krueger, were so ingenious that there exists the potential to make this story not only one of the great horror movies, but without hyperbole one of the greatest FILMS of all time. I mean, here we have a story about a normal girl and her small circle of friends, on the cusp of graduating high school and facing the world. Suddenly, and through NO fault of their own, they're fighting for their lives against a supernatural menace that's hellbent on destroying their existence with extreme prejudice. Looking at the movie in this way, there is the opportunity to say, and show, so much with Nightmare on Elm Street, to make a metaphor about facing your fears and future as represented by Freddy Krueger, who can use the things you're afraid of against you. At least that's the way I view the NOES movies, and once again, it's all just IMO. As usual, I'm probably looking way too much into it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 14:56:58 GMT -5
Actually, that's the perfect representation of the franchise. I love that it's different though from the "slasher flick #17" out there. Even if some of the movies sucked a big, fat goat...at least the concept to each movie was interesting enough to keep your attention.
And while it was great to see the dark, menancing Kreuger back on screen, there's such a campy, nostaglia feeling to his hilarious quips. As a horror movie, Freddy's Dead is one of the worst. As a comedy though...Freddy's Dead makes me piss myself laughing at some of the over-the-top stuff they did.
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
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Post by erisi236 on May 2, 2010 15:00:24 GMT -5
I will forever love Freddy's Dead just for that Power Glove part, well that and "Kung-fu this bitch!" That movie is a riot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 15:16:51 GMT -5
Classic...in a way.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on May 2, 2010 16:10:46 GMT -5
Nightmare Sequel in 3D
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erisi236
Fry's dog Seymour
... enjoys the rich, smooth taste of Camels.
Not good! Not good! Not good!
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Post by erisi236 on May 2, 2010 16:14:05 GMT -5
Classic...in a way. Hey, I'll take Freddy's Dead over anything that PD has ever made.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2010 16:17:20 GMT -5
Classic...in a way. Hey, I'll take Freddy's Dead over anything that PD has ever made. Umm...actually, you know what...I would too.
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Ken Ivory
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Post by Ken Ivory on May 2, 2010 16:23:56 GMT -5
I will forever love Freddy's Dead just for that Power Glove part, well that and "Kung-fu this bitch!" That movie is a riot. "Looks like a frying pan and some eggs to me!"
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on May 2, 2010 16:31:14 GMT -5
This generation, though....thanks to Form and Fuller, they won't know the joy of having a really FUN, great NOES, or TCM, or F13 film with iconic characters like Tommy Jarvis, or Nancy Thompson or Sally Hardesty battling the big bads. All THEY know is that these movies SUCK, really, really bad. These once iconic slashers have been reduced by Platinum Dunes to just more run of the mill schlock, no different than the piss poor s*** you see on the DTV shelves at Blockbuster. I disagree. Most people I talk to about these remakes, ones who aren't horror enthusiasts who go to these types of films while on dates and whatnot... they actually like these movies. It's very close minded to speak for THEY (as you put it) as you're clearly stating your own opinion under the guise of everyone else. I saw the movie in front of a packed house on opening night and there were screams from people in the audience and in the lobby, everyone was talking about how awesome the film was. Clearly THEY have a differing opinion on the film, when compared to the 'THEY' that you speak of. Seeing how the most recent remake (Elm St.) made 32 million dollars it's opening weekend, I sincerely doubt people were boycotting this in droves because it was a remake or because it wasn't Robert Englund as Freddy. I'm sure it'll drop off next week big time, but not because all the horror fans have already seen it, and not because of bad word of mouth (the only complaints I've seen about this movie have been from the internet TBH), but because Iron Man 2 will pretty much have a stranglehold on the box office starting next Friday here in the states. As a standalone movie, I don't think it was that bad. It told a story competently, and provided its fair share of scares, I think. If compared to the original (which it shouldn't be when reviewing it), I'd say this was sub-par, but only because I was raised on the original Nightmare on Elm Street. I'm sure there will be people of a younger generation who will look at this film years from now and have fond memories of it, whether or not the die-hard fans of the original care or not.
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Lick Ness Monster
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Lick Ness Monster on May 2, 2010 16:50:28 GMT -5
I disagree. Most people I talk to about these remakes, ones who aren't horror enthusiasts who go to these types of films while on dates and whatnot... they actually like these movies. It's very close minded to speak for THEY (as you put it) as you're clearly stating your own opinion under the guise of everyone else. I saw the movie in front of a packed house on opening night and there were screams from people in the audience and in the lobby, everyone was talking about how awesome the film was. Clearly THEY have a differing opinion on the film, when compared to the 'THEY' that you speak of. I understand what you're saying, but I'll back Rorschach up on this one. The movie does fulfill its intended purpose - it provides a few scares for people out at the movies on dates and whatnot (mostly through those CAT scares, natch), but how many of those same people will be talking about how amazing the film was months from now? Even WEEKS from now? This is just anecdotal evidence, but I've noticed this about PD's previous horror remake, Friday the 13th. Most of us agree that it's the best of the recent PD remakes, and here we are a year later and it's already well on its way to obscurity, along with the reboots of TCM, The Hitcher, Prom Night etc. And I'm just making a call here - in 12 months' time, after the DVD has been released and the next horror movie has come along at the multiplexes, nobody will give a s*** about this movie.
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Ken Ivory
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Post by Ken Ivory on May 2, 2010 16:54:08 GMT -5
Best Highlight Package EVAR!
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on May 2, 2010 17:40:10 GMT -5
The Friday the 13th Sequel may still have a chance a slim one at best right now.
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