crup
Bubba Ho-Tep
The Loose Cannon
Posts: 639
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Post by crup on Apr 22, 2007 18:42:50 GMT -5
Fly ball.........caught
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Apr 22, 2007 19:52:11 GMT -5
I really like these "Some random _______ thoughts".......I think you should do one on Wrestlemania 8. Eh? Believe it or not, I'm watching that show now. So expect another thread about that very show.
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Post by humanoid on Apr 22, 2007 20:29:22 GMT -5
I really like these "Some random _______ thoughts".......I think you should do one on Wrestlemania 8. Eh? Believe it or not, I'm watching that show now. So expect another thread about that very show. Weird...I'm watching it right now too.
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Post by Aceorton on Apr 22, 2007 20:37:28 GMT -5
I'll add some of my WM4 thoughts:
* I love how the Islanders just splash Heenan down on top of Koko like he's a Hefty bag full of old clothes. He is their manager, after all -- you'd think they'd be a little more gentle with him. * Is it me, or does Hogan look like a total candy-ass when he suplexes Virgil in the aisleway but doesn't fall back with him? He just lets Virg drop carelessly behind him so he doesn't have to take the bump.
* I wonder if Donald Trump, in 1988, imagined that 19 years later he'd be part of a Wrestlemania storyline.
* After Finkel introduces "Canada's strongest man, Dino Bravo!" listen for the woman in the crowd who immediately yells "THAT'S DEBATABLE!"
* Muraco's signature spot where he twist/hangs himself between the top and second ropes ... awfully dangerous, I would think, depending on how the ring is set up. If tight ropes can pop Cactus Jack's ear off, imagine what it must feel like around your neck.
* Frenchy Martin and Superstar Billy Graham may have been the two most useless managers of the '80s. Well, and the Baron.
* I mark for the Killer Bees/Rougeaus feud.
* Vanna White is so unintentionally funny trying to figure out the appropriate body language in her segments with Okerlund.
* Vanna White is awfully tan.
* But Vanna White is still pretty hot.
* Interesting concept with the Harts at the time: Bret walks out as a tweener/face, while Neidhart is still a heel, but the team is intact. They continued this into the summer. At WrestleFest, Bret (face) lost to Bad News, and Neidhart ran out to help him attack Bad News afterward. Then later in the show, Neidhart (heel) squashed Lanny Poffo. They never teased a Hart Foundation split, and eventually Neidhart also was a solid face. I wonder where they were originally going with this.
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Post by Freakzilla on Apr 23, 2007 10:58:11 GMT -5
I have always been underwhelmed by Wrestlemania 4 mainly because it felt more like a King of The Ring ppv with the elimination tournament element. Other than Randy Savage winning the title there is little that stands out in this show. Add to that the rather dead crowd and you can see why it is'nt regarded very highly amongst fans. It is'nt the worst but is not a Wrestlemania that I remember fondly. I thought WM V which was held in the same venue a year later was a lot better.
Speaking of random thoughts does anyone remember Greg DeGeorge losing his voice and trying to interview people backstage sounding like a pubescent teenager. ;D
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Post by Cactus Jack on Apr 23, 2007 15:49:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Korderas was KO-ed for real with the megaphone.
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Post by Cheeto Smith on Apr 23, 2007 20:41:58 GMT -5
I'm a firm believer that a PPVs place in our heart often has a lot to do with biases and perspectives completely unrelated to anything substantive about the event.
For example, WM 3 does not mean nearly the same thing to me as it probably does to those who remember it going down live. I saw WM 3 two years after the fact, I didn't become a fan until 5.
I didn't see WM 4 until a year after the fact too, and I think that has left me with a generally positive view of it. It wasn't a disappointment to me, I wasn't expecting much of it, I wasn't expecting it to top 3, and even if I did, I didn't hold 3 in all that high esteem anyway. (I LOVE 5, I think there is just something about your first)
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Post by Cheeto Smith on Apr 23, 2007 20:44:58 GMT -5
One other related point.
I am much more fond of the Mega Powers feud than Hulk/Andre. This is a view that is almost certainly based on my own bias, since I first became a fan of WWF a few weeks prior to WM 5 and remember being SO excited about it. WM 3 was just a tape I watched later.
And I think I like Wrestlemania 4 in large part because of its association with the Mega Powers. It was sort of like the backstory to the feud I already was in love with.
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HRH The KING
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
Posts: 15,079
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Post by HRH The KING on Apr 24, 2007 0:17:24 GMT -5
This is how I would have framed the tournament
Quarter Finals
Hulk Hogan vs Andre The Giant (double DQ)
Ted Dibiase vs Don Muraco (Dibiase wins)
Greg Valentine vs Ricky Steamboat (Steamboat wins)
Randy Savage vs Rick Rude (Savage wins)
Semi Finals
Ted Dibiase gets a bye
Randy Savage vs Ricky Steamboat (Savage wins)
Final
Randy Savage vs Ted Dibiase (Savage wins title)
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Post by Mister Yummy on Apr 24, 2007 0:51:21 GMT -5
That's not enough people. You've gotta have 14. You can replace people, change winners, and change the order any way you like, but you have to use 14 people who wrestled on the card(The entire roster at the time)
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HRH The KING
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
Posts: 15,079
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Post by HRH The KING on Apr 24, 2007 1:42:44 GMT -5
Why use 14?
A smaller tournament would have reduced the excessively long PPV.
Between all the other matches plus the tournament, it would have still resulted in a PPV about three hours long.
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localh
ALF
We are 138
Posts: 1,218
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Post by localh on Apr 24, 2007 2:01:41 GMT -5
One Man Gang and Butch Reed should of switched spots with Harley Race and Bad News
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,975
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Apr 24, 2007 3:23:32 GMT -5
Even though it never happened, I can imagine the posts if it did.
"Why did the have to ruin WM3 Steamboat/Savage by doing it again the next year? The WM3 match is a classic, the best WM match ever. They do it at WM4 and they don't have enough time and both were face. It's so stupid. They ruined it for me!!"
I always enjoyed 4 for some reason. Though, I see why folks would say it's weak.
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Post by Aceorton on Apr 24, 2007 4:43:06 GMT -5
Why use 14? A smaller tournament would have reduced the excessively long PPV. Between all the other matches plus the tournament, it would have still resulted in a PPV about three hours long. I think the idea was that with 14 guys in the mix, it would be slightly less obvious that they were about to put the belt on Savage. Looking back on the star power at the time, this would be my revised tournament of 14, booked like this: First round:Ted DiBiase def. Jake Roberts Hacksaw Duggan def. Harley Race (blowing off their feud) Randy Savage def. Greg Valentine Rick Rude def. Ricky Steamboat (rematch from Royal Rumble) One Man Gang def. Bam Bam by DQ Brutus Beefcake-Honky Tonk Man double-CO Quarterfinals:Andre-Hogan double-DQ (same as before) DiBiase def. Duggan Savage def. Rude (now THAT would be a good match) OMG bye (same as before) Semifinals:DiBiase bye (same as before) Savage def. OMG by DQ (same as before) Final:Savage def. DiBiase (same as before) I didn't get a sense that Muraco, Bravo or Reed belonged in the tournament. Stick all three in the battle royal to give it some bigger names -- along with Hercules and the Warrior to save time -- and dump the useless undercard filler: Sika, the Young Stallions, Sam Houston and Danny Davis. Or hell, call it a 25-man battle royal and keep everybody. Folding Beefcake vs. Honky into the tournament would save more time, and their double elimination could set up a rematch on SNME, this time with the IC belt on the line. THEN have Jimmy Hart cost Beefcake the belt and proceed with the feud as planned.
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Post by Mister Yummy on Apr 25, 2007 3:46:50 GMT -5
If you did the Honkey vs. Beefcake match, then the Intercontinental Title wouldn't have been defended at Wrestlemania, and it was too big a title for that back then.
Harley Race would have been great in the tournement. Give him Bravo's spot, or maybe Rude's. Ultimate Warrior could have replaced Muraco. Butch Reed, I agree, had no place in the tourney, but it's fun watching Macho beat him. Alas, there's no one better to give the spot to. Hercules might have worked nearly as well as Reed, but probably not. Bad News Brown could probnably pull it off, leaving Bret Hart to feud with someone else...Bravo would be good. Yeah, that could work. Let's put up my new card to make the show better, using just what the WWF Had.
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Wrestlemania 4 - March 28, 1988; Tramp Plaza, Atlantic City, New Jersey(AU)
20 man Battle Royale featuring: Bret Hart, Jim Neidhart, Jim Powers, Paul Roma, Sika, Danny Davis, Sam Houston, Hillbilly Jim; Brian Blair, Jim Brunzell, "The Natural" Butch Reed, Ray Rougeau, Jacques Rougeau, Junk Yard Dog; Ken Patera, Ron Bass, Dino Bravo, Nickolai Volkoff, Boris Volkoff, George Steele
Bravo wins, last eliminating Bret Hart after a double cross. Hart breaks his trophy, turning face and starting their feud(Same as with Brown).
14 man single elimination tourneyment to crown the undisputed World Wrestling Federation Heavyweight Champion.
Tournement Bracket:
---------------Hogan -------------------------- ---------------Andre --------------------------------- DiBiase --------------- Hacksaw ------------------------- Hercules --------------- Muraco ----------------------------------------- Valentine --------------- Steamboat ------------------------- Savage --------------- Brown ---------------------------------- Gang --------------- BamBam ------------------------- Race --------------- Snake
Tournement Round 1:
"Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase vs. "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan - Same match as the real one. DiBiase Pins Duggan after a kneedrop after interferance by Andre.
Hercules vs. "The Rock" Don Muraco - Rock wins by DQ after Herc gets caught using his chain while he thinks the ref is down.
Greg "The Hammer" Valentine vs. Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat - They start off even, but, early in the match, Jimmy Hart trips Steamboat in a common bit of heel manager interference. However, instead of falling to get symapthy for the face and heat for the heal, Steamboat trips and injures his leg. Valentine capatilizes, working on the leg at every opportunity. He keeps the upper hand through most of the match, but Steamboat keeps making comebacks. He finally gets Valentine down long enough to go for the Big Chop off the turnbuckle, and hits it, but hurts his leg badly in the process. Before long, Valentine is up, and he slaps on the Figure 4. Steamboat's leg can't take it, and he submits. Valentine wins with a submission via the Figure 4, with seconds to go in the time limit. Valentine proceedes to brutally beat on Steamboat after the match, until Savage comes down to make the save. Steamboat thanks him, and says he was looking forward to a rematch, and that it's a shame that they won't have one on that night. Maybe some other time, he says. Steamboat's music plays as he heads to the back. Savage stays in the ring, joined by Elizabeth, and waits for his match.
Randy "Macho Man" Savage vs. "Bad News" Brown - Savage wins by pinfall in a match very similiar to the origional against Reed, except a bit longer to show off Brown's better abilities as a wrestler. The match goes slightly in Bad News' favor, as Savage is out-brawled by Brown. Savage, however, is able to make a comeback and land some good offensive moves because of his quicker speed. The match is pretty even, going back and forth, rough and tumble brawling vs. speed and quickness, until Brown takes some shortcuts to get the upper hand. He climbs the turnbuckle, but is distracted by arguing with Elizabeth. Savage recovers, and hits the elbow for the pin.
One Man Gang vs. BamBam Bigelow - This match is similiar to their origional match, but with more fat guy spots, a different referee, and a vastly different finish. The referree counts slowly through the whole match, but is consistent. Gorilla complains whenever he counts slow for BamBam, but Ventura says it's okay since he counts slowly for the gang too, "As long as it's consistent, Gorilla". Eventually, Gang hits the splash, but Bigelow kicks out. After one too many slow counts, Gang gets enraged, yelling in anger at the ref until he backs him into the corner. He eventually snaps, whips the ref into the opposite corner, and hits an avelanche. He drops an elbow and as splash for good measure. Other referee's come out, and revive the origional ref as Gang and Slick beat on BamBam, Slick using his cane. When the ref is revived, he disqualifies Gang, allowing the very beaten Bigalow to advance.
"King" Harley Race vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts - The match goes back and forth, with alot of wrestling holds, alot of wearing down, and alot of working on the neck and head by Roberts. When Jakes goes for the DDT while Race is in the Corner, Harley grabs the ropes and stops the move, while Jake hits the mat hard. Harley climbs to the second rope and hits a diving headbutt for the win.
Non Tournement Match: The Ultimate Warrior vs. "Ravishing" Rick Rude - Warrior and Rude start off their feud early, in a teaser of sorts. The source of their conflict is Rude insulting Warriors physique, and bragging about how he won the Jesse the Body award. The match is power vs. Quickness, with Warrior often coming out with the advantage, and Rude taking shortcuts to keep in the match. After escaping the Power Press Slam with a Greco Roman Thumb to the Eye, Rick Rude talks a walk with Bobby, and Warrior wins by count out. This will keep their heat going for their next encounter, as they feud over the Intercontinantal Championship over the summer.
Tournement Quarterfinal Round:
Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant - The previous 2 champions square off in a highly anticipated rematch from the previous Wrestlemania. Both have had a taste of the gold, and both want it back. They feel each other out at first, and then start slugging away on each other. Both display alot of power and endurance, both getting in powerful moves, showing the full extent of both men's talents. Unlike Andre's early advantage, followed by Hogan's comeback and win the previous year, this time, neither man is able to gain a significant advantage, and the match stays pretty even. As the clock ticks on, both men attack harder and harder. Eventually, Andre whips Hogan for the big boot, but Hogan ducks, hitting an Axe Bomber as he comes back from the other side. This rocks the giant, and Hulk picks up and slams Andre. Hogan goes for the big Leg Drop, but Andre rolls our of the way and avoids it. Hogan hurts his butt when he misses the leg, and Andre picks him up and takes the advantage. Andre Double Underhook Suplexes Hogan and lands the Hip Drop, but can't get the pin as Hogan hulks up. Hogan blocks a Giant Chop, and punches Andre in the head once, twice, three times, and Irish Whips the frenchman. Hogan lifts his leg, and hits the Big Boot Kick, but Andre doesn't go down. Hogan hits the ropes for another Axe Bomber when Virgil grabs his leg. Hogan turns around to grab Virgil, and pick him up by the vest. Andre gets up and grabs Hogan from behind. He locks in the Nerve Hold, and begins Headbutting the Hulkster, as his face turns red and his arms flail about. Andre slips his hands into a Hoke Hold, and headbutts Hogan again and Again, before shaking him around. Hogan gasps for air, and goes down to his knees. Andre keeps choking, switching back to the nervehold on the 4 count, grinning with his many extra teeth as he squeezes the life out of hogan. The ref lifts Hulk's arm. It drops once, twice, but the third time, Hogan keeps it up. He shakes his arm, and powers his way back up. Hogan lands some back elbows and, just as Andre starts showing pain, and Hogan breaks the hold, the bell rings to signify that the time limit has expired. Hogan and Andre continue to brawl in the ring as officials pour out. Hogan eventually gets distracted by Virgil and DiBiase, and chases them into the back, leaving Andre in the ring, clearing the cobwebs.
"Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase vs. "The Rock" Don Muraco - The same match as their origional one. DiBiase pins Muraco after a Stungun.
Greg "The Hammer" Valentine vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage - Pretty much the same match they had origionally. Savage wins rolling up Valentine during a Figure 4 attempt.
BamBam Bigelow vs. "King" Harley Race - BamBam comes out, still battered, bruised, and beaten from his encounter with the Gang. He's obviously at an extreem disadvantage against Race, who won his match quickly, and without incident. BamBam manhandles and throws around Race a lot, but every time he gets the advantage, he gets woozy, allowing Race to re-capitalize. Eventually, Race gets BamBam in position for the Diving Headbutt, and lands it, but ends up hurting himself more than BamBam. Bigelow no-sells the headbutt, and capatilises on Race, who's holding his head in pain. Bigelow goes to the middle turnbuckle and hits a headbutt of his own. After landing it, he gets up, ooks groggy for a minute, and taunts to the crowd that it's over. He runs to the ropes for a splash or a running diving headbutt, but gets lowbridged by Heenan. Bigelow lays on the ground woozy just a bit too long, and gets counted out by the angry screaming ref, even though he made it back onto the apron before 10, and Harley was beating him down, not letting him into the ring.
WWF Intercontinental Championship match: Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake(challenger) vs. Honkey Tonk Man(Champion) - same match as the origional
6 Man Tag Team Match: The Islanders & Bobby "The Brain" Heenan vs. The Brittish Bulldogs & Koko B. Ware - Same match as the origional.
Tournement Semi-final Round:
"Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase gets a Bye into the final round.
"Macho Man" Randy Savage vs. "King" Harley Race - A highly technical match, giving Savage the advantage for the most part. Savage gets the pin with the Flying Elbow Smash, going cleanly over Harley Race.
WWF Tag Team Championship Match: Demolition(Challengers) vs. Strike Force(Champions) - Same match as the origional, except the end. Instead of the cane shot, Ax clubs Martell with a Double Ax Handle to break the Boston Crab. The Demos then use Decapitation, and win cleanly, while Santana is distracted beating up Fuji.
Tournement Final for the WWF Heavyweight Championship: "Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage - Same match as the origional. This was a great match, and should be kept just as it was.
Tournement Results:
---------------Hogan --------------------------Draw ---------------Andre ---------------------------------DiBiase DiBiase ---------------DiBiase Hacksaw -------------------------DiBiase Hercules --------------Muraco Muraco -----------------------------------------Savage Valentine ---------------Valentine Steamboat -------------------------Savage Savage ---------------Savage Brown ----------------------------------Savage Gang ---------------BamBam BamBam -------------------------Race Race ---------------Race Snake
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Now tell me that wouldn't have been a hell of a show! I ended up still using everybody, having the same number of matches, and ending the night pretty much the same way. I switched people around a bit to give some better opponents, and I changed a few matches around, using hindsight as a tool. All in all, my show would have been a bit longer than the realy one, but much more exciting, and much more satisfying for all concerened. What do you guys think?
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Post by seanwalsh on Apr 25, 2007 5:23:32 GMT -5
Hillbilly Jim was a favorite because of his size. That bit I understand, but Hillbilly Jim was basically a Jobber with a Gimmick. I don't recall him ever pinning anyone (except for the WWF Superstars Squashes) so that makes him a favourite how? Wasn't he (kayfabe at least) a friend of Hogan's? That pretty much explains it if he was.
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