dpg
Samurai Cop
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Post by dpg on Mar 2, 2010 12:36:32 GMT -5
The arguement that TNA pushes new stars falls apart at the seams when you really look at it. "Mr. Anderson (Kennedy), Desmond Wolfe (I still call him Nigel McGuiness), Rob Terry, Amazing Red, The Pope, Matt Morgan, Hernandez" None of these guys have held anything higher than the Tag Team titles. 3 of them have never held a title at all and two of them just started with the company less than 4 months ago. That is hardly a good indicator. Plus the arguement that Styles is TNA champ is also shakey because Styles is hardly a "new" talent by any stretch of the imagination. He's been with the company since its inception. If you really want to compare which company is pushing younger stars more then, unfortunately WWE wins out. The Miz - US Champ, Unified Tag Team Champ Drew McIntyre - IC Champ, but still very new, so we'll see if he's really going somewhere, but the arguement can be made that at least they're giving the young guy a chance. Daniel Bryan just main evented WWE's newest show against the World Champ in a competitive match. Again - its too soon to tell, but something nonetheless. John Morrison - The only title the guy hasn't held is the WWE Title and that's only a matter of time. He's constantly just below the main event scene and is a star for WWE - they just released a DVD for the guy. CM Punk I have a bias here, but I think they have established the hell outta this guy. MVP and Legacy are also heavily featured. The main even scene does get clogged up with HHH, Cena, Batista and Orton - but that's mainly on the RAW brand. Edge, Jericho, CM Punk, Hardy (while still employed there), and Undertaker (though he's tied up with HBK now) are the mainstays of the SD brand's main event scene. Anderson's been with the company a short time but is being given a push. Desmond Wolfe hasn't been there long either, but again, he was being pushed and seems to be being pushed again. The pope is number one contender for the title, Hernandez and Morgan are tag champs and seeing as the only title belt above that is the world title, they are being pushed. Amazing red was being pushed, but although he's great in the ring, his lack of ability on the mic means he's x-division champ material right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 12:43:07 GMT -5
The arguement that TNA pushes new stars falls apart at the seams when you really look at it. "Mr. Anderson (Kennedy), Desmond Wolfe (I still call him Nigel McGuiness), Rob Terry, Amazing Red, The Pope, Matt Morgan, Hernandez" None of these guys have held anything higher than the Tag Team titles. 3 of them have never held a title at all and two of them just started with the company less than 4 months ago. That is hardly a good indicator. Plus the arguement that Styles is TNA champ is also shakey because Styles is hardly a "new" talent by any stretch of the imagination. He's been with the company since its inception. If you really want to compare which company is pushing younger stars more then, unfortunately WWE wins out. The Miz - US Champ, Unified Tag Team Champ Drew McIntyre - IC Champ, but still very new, so we'll see if he's really going somewhere, but the arguement can be made that at least they're giving the young guy a chance. Daniel Bryan just main evented WWE's newest show against the World Champ in a competitive match. Again - its too soon to tell, but something nonetheless. John Morrison - The only title the guy hasn't held is the WWE Title and that's only a matter of time. He's constantly just below the main event scene and is a star for WWE - they just released a DVD for the guy. CM Punk I have a bias here, but I think they have established the hell outta this guy. MVP and Legacy are also heavily featured. The main even scene does get clogged up with HHH, Cena, Batista and Orton - but that's mainly on the RAW brand. Edge, Jericho, CM Punk, Hardy (while still employed there), and Undertaker (though he's tied up with HBK now) are the mainstays of the SD brand's main event scene. Anderson's been with the company a short time but is being given a push. Desmond Wolfe hasn't been there long either, but again, he was being pushed and seems to be being pushed again. The pope is number one contender for the title, Hernandez and Morgan are tag champs and seeing as the only title belt above that is the world title, they are being pushed. Amazing red was being pushed, but although he's great in the ring, his lack of ability on the mic means he's x-division champ material right now. I'm not debating that these guys are being featured now - and if they keep it up, great. But as of right now they are on the same level as WWE when it comes to pushing their young talent (slightly below WWE, but that's strictly my opinion). Its hard to judge if someone is actual going to be a key player in the company after only a few months or if they're just bringing them in temporarily. The same could have been said for Test and Rikishi at one time. The Miz, Punk, Morrison and MVP have been with the company for a few years and are all key players at this point. I agree that guys like Ziggler, McIntyre and Legacy are still very new to the company and like Kennedy, Pope and Wolfe - their status in the company is still TBD.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Mar 2, 2010 14:06:10 GMT -5
One thing TNA does much better is make their titles feel a lot more important.
There have been 8 different title reigns by 4 different guys since the title began. Compare that to the same timeframe in WWE where there have been like 20 title reigns.
At least in TNA when a guy wins a title, you can be assured his reign will mean something. I didn't care about Sheamus winning the title because I knew they wouldn't go anywhere with it or give him a chance to shine and within a month or two we would be back to either John Cena, Batista, Orton or HHH holding it and fighting some combination of the other three.
If say, Matt Morgan wins the belt I will be excited and pay attention because I know TNA will actually focus on him, give him a good reign and not cut his legs out from under him.
Sure, more guys win titles in WWE. WWE HAS more titles. Even their WWE Title is extremely devalued at this point.
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Post by Michael Coello on Mar 2, 2010 14:32:46 GMT -5
I said it before, that people don't want TNA to succeed if you have guys like Russo, Hogan, Biscoff, and such are around, mostly cause they are so painted as villains that it's not possible. I don't think anyone can top the level of hate these guys get, and since they're in charge, it's worse for TNA, since any mistake, no matter how little and insignificant, is attributed to them killing the company.
Heck, you can probably toss Bubba in there, getting so much hate for doing jack on screen, even before he did anything on TV or off, just cause he's Bubba. Same with some of the talent that came in, just cause they came in with Hogan.
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Post by jobsquad on Mar 2, 2010 15:22:18 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I don't think WWE guys are really let go to do their best stuff. I mean, why take risks/work harder than you have to? If I am an agent, you never see me coming up with matches that have highly injury prone spots in them. It is like an Angle/Styles match, they do exactly what I am talking about, and so do most of the guys on their current roster that are on TV post 1/4. However, in WWE, anyone can work a match with anyone else, and it comes off good because they follow the formula, but they don't seem to come up with the cool spots. Since I was talking about technical anyway, from a working standpoint, you should be able to go out there and have a good match without even talking to the guy your working with, because you both know the 'ingredients' for a match. I don't know why WWE wrestler's don't put the creativity into all of their matches. They be intentionally holding back for PPV's and such. To be honest, I'm not talking about highspots; you could plop me down in front of a card full of mat-based or submission based matches and I'd be happy as a clam. Highspots are fun, but I agree they should be saved for when they're needed. I've never thought that WWE's problem is the lack of guys hitting stiffer, or flying more off the top rope; I've always felt that, once you've seen one, say, Randy Orton match, you've seen them all. He'll basically wrestle the same way against Triple H that he will against someone like Sheamus, the same way he'll wrestle against Cena. That goes beyond the "Five Moves of Doom" argument; Bret Hart gets ragged on (inappropriately) for that, yet Bret was a master at using minutiae and subtlety to make most of his matches come off as unique from one another. He'd repeat some spots, yes, but the actual psychology of the match changed depending on the opponent/circumstances. I recently got to see some of the Royal Rumble pay per view, first time I've seen WWE pay per view matches in, well, about five and a half years. I saw the Orton/Sheamus match (big reason why I'm brought those two names up before), and having seen both guys work on Raw previously, again, even at Royal Rumble, arguably the second or third biggest show of the year...they wrestled it almost exactly as they would have on Raw. Again, I'm not saying "Orton should've done a dive off the top!", or "Sheamus should have stiffed him!", I'm just saying they need to start doing something, ANYTHING, differently. Though I do have to give credit to the Undertaker/Rey Mysterio match I saw; they put on a good show, wrestled a smart match. Ah, Ok, I see where you are coming from now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 19:02:28 GMT -5
The funny thing about the original post is that the guys he is clamoring the company to push are all getting major air time and pushes, yet the OP still bashes Hogan and the company. You want to see Pope pushed? Watch the show. You want to see AJ pushed? Watch the show. Anderson? Abyss? Morgan? Hernandez? Beer Money? All being pushed.
In other words, this was a Hogan bashing thread. Nothing more, nothing less. TNA is pushing the young guys. Just because they are featuring Hogan, Flair, Bischoff, The Band, Jarrett, and Foley as well doesn't take away from that. It's called balance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 19:17:34 GMT -5
Its called opinion.
The only fact is that things haven't drastically changed since Hogan took over. Ratings are marginally better, but they were slowly increasing before Hogan's arrival. The 1.1 jokes were laid to rest months before Hogan showed up as Impact was getting 1.3's then.
If people like the show better now - that's great, but aside from the addition of Anderson - guys like Hernandez/Morgan, Abyss, Wolfe and the Pope were all being featured. Beer Money was established long before TNA even though of bringing Hogan in.
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