Point Blank: Would You Make A Good Promoter?

[thereallybigshow]

Nov 10, 2010 21:45:32 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

So , 50 big ones, eh? That's actually a lot of money, if you think about it, to start a promotion on. Around here, they'd be talking about TV.

Let's see....one used truck, $10K (tops). One decent used ring, $3000 (tops - I've seen them advertised online for less. Promotional materials and production, $2K-5K (banners for ring apron, posters, advertising on truck, website design & maintenance, and brand merchandise.) I'm starting slowly here.

I'd budget about $1000 to $1500 per show on bookings: $100 for each member of my core roster, $50 or so for anyone new to the business who wants to jerk the curtain and pick up some tips and info from the rest of the boys.To break even, I'd need to draw a gate of 100-150 at $10 a pop, plus concessions. Running cards weekly, I could keep up the pace for at least six months. Venue rentals would be smaller- a rec centre or school gym, for example - but I believe in the idea that it's better to sell out a broom closet than to perform at an empty Madison Square Garden.

Wow you are overpaying!

100-150 won't make you money. 150 people = 1500 dollars. If you run a show of 8 SINGLES matches that is 1600 bucks. But let's say you cut it down to $1000 on talents. Don't forget a least two refs. Don't forget you need people to work the door, concessions, cameras, music.

Running a wrestling promotion is so much more complex than it seems.

[bob]

I think I would as long as I have people around me to help with the bookkeeping

I'm TERRIBLE with numbers

[The Possum]

No. I like to think I'd be a pretty decent booker, but I don't have business savvy to be a promoter.

[thereallybigshow]

Ok, I actually have work off today so I'm going to have a little fun on here and put together a hypothetical Indy show for you.

First, here are a few rules of thumb.

1) Do not overpay workers.

Work WITH your local talent. Convince them to help flier and sell tickets. DO NOT pay them more than the # of tickets they sell. For a young worker, just being able to work in front of good house should be payment enough. $20-$40 to cover gas should be enough. If it's not don't book them, why pay $40 to a person nobody will be paying to see?

2) Do not assume internet promotion and of booking a name will draw.

The internet won't sell you 100 tickets under normal circumstances for a small time indy show. If you are shooting for 100-200 people, understand that if you max out you're looking to make 2000 off the gate. Your talent should be 1/3 of that. If you're talent is more than 1/3 of the gate you expect than you're overbooking or overpaying.

3) Being a promoter is about running a business.

I'm guilty of being too lax on the business end in my promotion. While we never really lost money, we never made much either. Promoting a show properly takes hours and hours of promotion. Radio, TV, Local paper, Internet, and local store windows. I've bought TV time, found sponsors, bought commercial during ALL the prime time wrestling shows. Local shows with the same talent draw 1/3 as many people while using the same talent...

------THE COSTS----

The cost for a show isn't just talent. You're talking around $500 for a basic ring rental if you are lucky. Don't forget REAL venues cost money. Most of the time you're paying up front. INSURANCE! Don't be stupid. If you're actually running a large show you should buy event insurance. Many venues require it. It can cost excess of $800 for a typical show. If you shop around you can find it for around $400. Remember all it takes is ONE sloppy worker to hurt somebody in the audience.

At one show, which I had insurance for, a manager took a simple bump off the apron onto the rail. The manager was trying to do a good job but he didn't realize a child was standing near the rail...BOOM! Bloody lip and crying. Luckily it was a regular and she was easily bought off with autographs and t-shirts. ON THE SAME SHOW, one of my regular workers spit at some point in the match. Sure enough I was contacted by the local health officials. They weren't terrible, but it's not a call you will enjoy more than once.

Also, be careful with copyrights. I personally know a promoter who was sued for selling DVD w/ copyrights entrance themes on them. I admit real songs are much better for shows. But, be aware that it is illegal.

What else???

Oh and if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it does it make a sound? Same goes for wrestling. If you run a show and you draw 30 people is it really a show? If you don't tape it did it really happen? If you tape it on a crappy camera with bad lighting is it anything more than a home video?

Don't fool yourself, tape your shows. If you are putting on good shows you'll want to tape them. If you don't feel like taping them is important than you're either making so much money it doesn't matter or maybe deep down inside you're a little embarrassed.

Don't hire outside companies to film your shows. THEY OWN THE TAPES. THAT MEANS YOU DO NOT OWN THE FOOTAGE.

Oh! TV costs a ton of money! Obviously we all know about most of the costs, but did you know that you LEGALLY have to have closed captioning? Closed captioning either means you spending thousands on the perticular program OR you're paying a company to caption it for you. Either way...you're paying...

WHAT ELSE?!?! WHAT ELSE>!>

[thereallybigshow]

OK here a couple of tips about actually putting on the show.

1) Refrain from giving out COMP tickets.

Obviously it's ok to hook up somebody you know or talked into checking out your show. Sometime talent will come down to check out your show. If you see yourself booking them, comp them. If not, make them pay, they are nothing more than fans in that case. If you start giving wrestlers comp EVERYONE will want comps. "Oh, my sister is visiting""Hey, my dad wanted to come" NO NO NO. If somebodies family or friends won't pay $10 to watch them wrestle then forget about them. Sure it's great to have people in the audience, but if your ticket prices are fair don't sweat it. Comp = Free. Free= less gate. Less gate = less profit. Less profit = bad move.

2) If you like promoting on the internet, befriend a person with skills in photoshop and filming and editing footage.

If you're flier looks like it was done in MS Paint, you will draw more laughs than ticket sales. If you have no cameras, editing software, or other important promotional stuff you ARE fighting a losing battle. Your promotion is only as professional as you promotional material looks. Can you run crappy shows but have great promotional materials? Yes. Can good shows have crappy promotional materials? Yes. But, if you put on a good show and have professional promotional materials you are actually on your way to running business and therefore you're becoming a promoter.

3)You will NEED able bodies for all sorts of tasks.

Doors, Security, Concessions, trained refs, music, cameras, and a whole lot more. I personally promoted (with tons of help) and booked the shows. Remember it's impossible to be backstage explaining your vision to 20 different egos and be behind the curtain and make sure your workers are being safe, respectful and generally not crappy.

You will need friends, workers, and fans who believe in your vision. You CAN NOT do it alone. It's impossible. I promise.

-------

I was lucky enough to work for several successful promotions and run my own. I had several great wrestling minds working with me behind the scenes. I've been lucky enough to work with some of my favorite wrestlers from my childhood. Hell, I even had an evil ref screw Hacksaw Jim Duggan out of my title.

Wow, think about it. Everything I typed is the tip of the iceberg! NEVERMIND actually booking a show that doesn't suck. Remember more matches doesn't equal more entertainment. More money on talent doesn't equal more fans.

Well, if anyone want to know the do's and don't of booking a show let me know... I have all sorts of blunders and huge successes I can give examples with.

[thereallybigshow]

Ok ,here is some visual proof to support my other post. We started in a trucking GARAGE. We had about 50-60 people at this show, which was impressive for us. We were just having fun. You can see SOME of the same talent. you can see how overtime our production value went up and how our roster improved.


2nd show in 2007



I'm not even sure what show # this is...but it's a later show. But it was maybe a year and a half later. Almost 2 years.

Oh and this show seems even more impressive now the Robbie E has joined TNA!

[Brandon Walsh is Insane.]

Thanks for the info and the 'inside' look at running a show!

That information can be really beneficial to people that don't realize all the work involved.

Great read!

[thereallybigshow]

Nov 11, 2010 13:21:23 GMT -5 Brandon Walsh is Insane. said:

Thanks for the info and the 'inside' look at running a show!

That information can be really beneficial to people that don't realize all the work involved.

Great read!

No problem. I don't really post much. But, I do enjoy discussing promoting. If anyone has any questions, comments, or ideas feel free to post here or PM me.



Here is a video my buddy and I produced for a larger promotion. You can see me about the 50 second mark doing my best backstage interviewer impression, while interview Jimmy Hart and Brian Anthony.

[Ultimo Chocula]

No. I cannot book for a large audience. I know what I like and I know that it's not for everybody.

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

No.

Too much of the stuff I'd book would be just crap I'd personally like to watch. Every promoter's done that to an extent, but odds are I don't want to see the same things a lot of wrestling fans do.