Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2011 20:46:38 GMT -5
The current Evil M probably wouldn't tap, but the sniveling heel Evil M did on multiple occasions.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Aug 13, 2011 20:55:50 GMT -5
Sounds like we should just forget about submissions if no one wants to lose by it, then.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,578
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Aug 13, 2011 22:32:41 GMT -5
I'd probably be too bullheaded to tap out.
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Post by hossfan on Aug 13, 2011 22:51:06 GMT -5
WWCF now stands for "We Wannabe Cena Federation."
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Aug 13, 2011 23:59:04 GMT -5
Yeah, makes me glad that I originally wrote my dragon sleeper as an actual sleeper hold (btw, why DO they call it a sleeper if it's a tapout move?). There's no shame in passing out, after all.
But for the people who don't want to tap, here's some info that may change your mind. Some of the top faces in this fed have lost that way. Jackson has (and this was back when he was really active, in a steel cage match against Colt), Sparks has, Jonathan Michaels lost the Championship Of Honor to Evil M that way, and I'd venture to guess that pretty much every opponent Naitch ever beat lost via submission since his only finisher was the Figure Four.
As far as real life is concerned, not even HHH's ego prevents him from tapping, as he has tapped to Chris Benoit's Crossface and Undertaker's Hell's Gate when he could have used his influence to refuse. In the case of Benoit, it was a triple threat with HBK, and Hunter could have had Shawn tap instead. Incidentally, Michaels tapped out to a double team submission move from DiBiase & Rhodes during the Breaking Point PPV.
For those of you who know the people in ROH, here are more examples: Davey Richards tapped out to Eddie Edwards in the finals of the Television Title tournament with both guys being face-ish tweeners and Davey being one hell of a badass either way, El Generico tapped to Davey's cloverleaf, Colt Cabana has also tapped to Davey, during the time Claudio Castagnoli was a face he lost to Nigel McGuinness via submission, and I'm sure that there are plenty more examples.
Here's my opinion: if you don't want to tap out to other guys in this fed, then don't put a submission finisher in your profile. Because I'm sorry, but I don't think it's reasonable to say "I want to be this guy who can torture other people enough that they tap out, but I don't ever want to put those other guys over in the same way by tapping out to them." I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding this, but that's what it sounds like to me.
And by the way, do you know what happens in real life if you don't submit in that situation in a legitimate competition? You're risking serious f***ing injury is what. That's part of the logic I've got behind Blood tapping even as a face, because even if he were completely immune to pain (which he isnt) it's better to stay healthy enough to fight another day than be sidelined for god knows how long with a broken arm or leg.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Aug 14, 2011 0:23:04 GMT -5
I remember a time when I was using the "Judo Joint Jacker" as a main finisher, but I remembered for the most parts that Faces aren't supposed to submit as much as Heels do. So, I switched. (Come to think of it, did I ever win with that?)
Nowadays, any submissions holds in my profile are usually just to wear a guy out before a big power move crushes them.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Aug 14, 2011 0:38:30 GMT -5
I've tapped out to Colt in the first Thunderdome and if it wasnt for the fact that I could not submit, I would have tapped out like a bitch in the No Easy Way Out Dog Collar Match I had with Little Naitch.
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Aug 14, 2011 10:33:20 GMT -5
I actually don't mind tapping, even tapping quickly if it's advantageous to do so. I was trying to say DON'T make him inhuman in his pain tolerance, he is simply a moderately fit individual with an abnormal digestive constitution and horrible luck. He also has a STRONG sense of self preservation, more willing to tap quickly than risk injury if put in a move too far from the ropes. Basically go with the 5 sec rule: if I can't conceivably start making a move to the ropes after 5 seconds, I'll consider tapping.
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Jeremy Dupoe
Don Corleone
Your lack of intelligence disgusts me
Posts: 1,414
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Post by Jeremy Dupoe on Aug 14, 2011 10:41:51 GMT -5
I would try to find a way to reverce the way I got into the hold and if I just can't, I would try to grab the ropes and if that fails, tap
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Aug 14, 2011 12:26:03 GMT -5
Yeah, that's how it ought to go, IMHO, what MPM and Dupoe said. Absolutely try to get free or get a rope break instead of tapping immediately. But if you can't, then unless your character is deranged (like Lodi) or extremely hardcore (like Vokoun) or both, then the logical thing to do is tap.
I'd like to apologize for my little rant. I didn't ask the question intending for it to end up like that; I hoped to get a better idea of how to write different people's matches, expected maybe two or three guys to say that they wouldn't tap at all, others to say they'd hold out a while before tapping, others to say that they'd last a shorter time, etc. So I was surprised at how many people said (or in a couple cases just seemed to be saying) they simply would not submit no matter what.
Anyway, changing the subject slightly: Amigo, I don't think you ever won with the Judo Joint Jacker, but I remember that you did use it to break Hideo Nakatomi's arm after Blood broke two of his fingers.
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
Posts: 8,748
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on Aug 14, 2011 12:52:51 GMT -5
Hell I won my first title by submission. Granted it WAS essentially a submission match, but still....it counts
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The Punisher
Unicron
"They don't fear the law. They fear me..."
Posts: 3,082
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Post by The Punisher on Aug 14, 2011 14:35:34 GMT -5
I see what you mean about tapping - and I think you're right the hardcore tough guys should probably be more resistant to submission moves, but I do think there needs to be a mix of guys who are resistant to them and guys who are not.
I think it's also worth pointing out that some submission holds don't require you to tap, because if you don't you just pass out, and you don't have a choice in the matter. I have no problems with this happening to my character, because no matter how tough Frank is, he can be knocked out just like anyone else. My finisher is in essence a knockout punch as well, so it wouldn't be fair not to be vulnerable to that too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2011 18:43:40 GMT -5
See, I didn't say I don't want my character to tap. I just don't feel that the current incarnation of the character would tap out. The current character is a by any means necessary type of character. He wouldn't be one to just tap out because someone caught him in a hold.
The previous version of the character actually tapped many times, I believe.
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Jazzman
King Koopa
Trombone Shorty > Your Favorite Musician
Posts: 11,231
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Post by Jazzman on Aug 14, 2011 21:35:43 GMT -5
No issue in tapping, as long it makes sense. I don't want to be worked over in a match on the leg then lose to someone who has an armlock submission as soon as it gets slapped on, you know?
Just be smart with how the subs get written and I have no problem tapping.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Aug 14, 2011 21:56:59 GMT -5
Yeah, that's how it ought to go, IMHO, what MPM and Dupoe said. Absolutely try to get free or get a rope break instead of tapping immediately. But if you can't, then unless your character is deranged (like Lodi) or extremely hardcore (like Vokoun) or both, then the logical thing to do is tap. I'd like to apologize for my little rant. I didn't ask the question intending for it to end up like that; I hoped to get a better idea of how to write different people's matches, expected maybe two or three guys to say that they wouldn't tap at all, others to say they'd hold out a while before tapping, others to say that they'd last a shorter time, etc. So I was surprised at how many people said (or in a couple cases just seemed to be saying) they simply would not submit no matter what. Anyway, changing the subject slightly: Amigo, I don't think you ever won with the Judo Joint Jacker, but I remember that you did use it to break Hideo Nakatomi's arm after Blood broke two of his fingers. Yeah, I definitely agree with that second paragraph. I mean, I could see my current character (after developing the extremely high pain threshold rehabbing the injuries caused by Colt) passing out, or tapping out of pure exhaustion in extreme cases. But I think in my characters perspective, it's one of those things where like, if a young up and comer makes him tap, it's a huge rub. I wouldn't just do it. I've been through a lot of pain, and submissions wouldn't affect me as much as impact moves or something would.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Aug 14, 2011 22:09:27 GMT -5
Yeah, that's how it ought to go, IMHO, what MPM and Dupoe said. Absolutely try to get free or get a rope break instead of tapping immediately. But if you can't, then unless your character is deranged (like Lodi) or extremely hardcore (like Vokoun) or both, then the logical thing to do is tap. I'd like to apologize for my little rant. I didn't ask the question intending for it to end up like that; I hoped to get a better idea of how to write different people's matches, expected maybe two or three guys to say that they wouldn't tap at all, others to say they'd hold out a while before tapping, others to say that they'd last a shorter time, etc. So I was surprised at how many people said (or in a couple cases just seemed to be saying) they simply would not submit no matter what. Anyway, changing the subject slightly: Amigo, I don't think you ever won with the Judo Joint Jacker, but I remember that you did use it to break Hideo Nakatomi's arm after Blood broke two of his fingers. Yeah, I definitely agree with that second paragraph. I mean, I could see my current character (after developing the extremely high pain threshold rehabbing the injuries caused by Colt) passing out, or tapping out of pure exhaustion in extreme cases. But I think in my characters perspective, it's one of those things where like, if a young up and comer makes him tap, it's a huge rub. I wouldn't just do it. I've been through a lot of pain, and submissions wouldn't affect me as much as impact moves or something would. Well, all depends on what's been toughened up by repeated attacks to it. Like, even when he was wrestling, dropping Mick Foley on his head or back probably wouldn't do too much compared to other people, but when Ken Shamrock did a Ankle Lock on him, he literally had to knock himself out from submitting. Compared to someone from the UWFI like....Takada. Lots of limb submissions over there, yet him and a lot of the others got rocked once Vader started dropping his bombs. So, it's all a matter of perpestive, I suppose.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,578
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Aug 15, 2011 0:46:52 GMT -5
I'll have my match done tomorrow night, hopefully. It won't be long, but it'll really be packed.
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Post by Connor Mackenzie on Aug 15, 2011 8:04:09 GMT -5
So overall how are we looking for this show? I know we had a few more matches then normal but with all of the matches having writers it seems like we should be able to get things in tonight.
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Aug 15, 2011 9:50:56 GMT -5
So far I've got Mulligan vs. Cageking, Jackson vs. Punisher, and I've almost got ViVA vs. Connor vs. Dupoe finished. Haven't received any others yet...
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Aug 15, 2011 9:51:17 GMT -5
I just realized that it's time for some awards! Specifically, ""The Gookers - WWCF's Third Anniversary". Here are the categories from last year, with the last one on the list being a new one added by me. And if anybody else has any ideas for other categories, don't be shy about suggesting them! SUPERSTAR OF THE YEAR TAG TEAM OF THE YEAR STABLE OF THE YEAR ROOKIE OF THE YEAR GIMMICK OF THE YEAR FEUD OF THE YEAR MATCH OF THE YEAR MOST AWESOME MOMENT OF THE YEAR
So let's nominate some people/teams/stables between now and BattleBowl, and I'll send out the voting for these awards with the BattleBowl voting. My nominations: Superstar Of The Year: Colt. The guy became the first ever two-time world champ and ended what I believe was the longest reign in the history of the company. Tag Team Of The Year: While it doesn't feel right to nominate myself, I feel like I kind of have to since for the majority of the last year it was pretty much Blood & Stone vs. two guys who didn't normally tag together but did so just once to challenge for the belts, and then after not winning them they went their separate ways. Or, in the case of Richlen and Naitch, won them, lost them, and then stopped tagging together afterwards. Some of those guys are tagging together again fairly regularly now that I'm booking them as a team more (and btw, if anybody would prefer to switch partners for any reason, don't hesitate to let me know), and Blood & Stone were finally dethroned for good by the Steampunks. If the Steampunks had been together for a longer period of time I would nominate them instead. Stable Of The Year: It kind of comes down to the Pantheon, Whitey Inc., and maybe Hideo's guys. I guess I'm going with the Pantheon, although I promise that this is gonna be the last time I nominate myself in any way. Rookie Of The Year: Richlen. The WWCF has seen a lot of new blood over the last year, but Richlen's been the most active and has accomplished a hell of a lot in his first year, with two title reigns to his name already. Gimmick Of The Year: I'm gonna say Mad Pirate Mulligan. Feud Of The Year: Evil M vs. Jonathan Michaels. That was one hell of a feud. Match Of The Year: This was a tough one, as there have been a lot of great matches. After pondering it for a while, I feel like the Chicago Death Match between Smokin' Vokoun and Starshine deserves to at least be on the list. (And no, I'm not saying that just to make Vokoun feel appreciated and stick around longer. ) Most Awesome Moment Of The Year: I'm gonna nominate Sparks' getting revenge on Evil M in their no disqualification match.
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