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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 18, 2011 17:38:17 GMT -5
Here are the ones I felt:
-FCW pushing muscleheads It's not that some of the guys don't have potential, but how good is someone gonna be, after they just started wrestling. I did hear that Mason Ryan was actually wrestling a bit in the UK before coming over, and did a training camp that a lot of guys have done before. Plus, pushing too many new people on television, it's hard to keep track and get behind someone.
-Midcard Yo-Yo pushes It's two different things, but I think it's a theme. People try to get behind somebody that they push, but they're forgotten about after awhile. So, you build up somebody a little bit, and all that steam you get, you lose, and you have to start all over again, and that makes things harder in the long run. You're putting helium in a balloon, you let it rise up, but then you take air out of it. It's gonna be harder and harder to get high enough, if you keep letting helium out of it.
-Comedy mixed with serious Funny don't draw money. People use the Rock as an example, but Rock used comedy at the start of his promos, and then sold the hell out of whatever he was doing, and was deadly serious. I think there can be a place on the card for it, but putting it in with major storylines, or putting in really ridiculous things, and now, here comes serious wrestler wanting to win the belt. Keep it to a minimum, don't be over the top, etc.
-Heels not getting enough heat WWE and TNA are total opposites in this direction. WWE has too little, TNA has too much. Nexus should have killed people for weeks, maybe even a few months, until they get that chink in the armour. It's the same helium example. Things need to have heat in them, and then slowly let it back down. Money can be drawn that way, because when someone is finally beaten, the crowd may pay to see that moment, when the bad guy is finally defeated.
-Babyfaces not selling I have a feeling that this is the fault of management, wanting to make John Cena and others into supermen. It's bad though, because he's not helping his cause of being liked by more people. Who is tougher. A guy who gets beaten up, but comes back easily from anything, or a guy who gets the dog shit beaten out of them, can barely fight back, but somehow fights back, and a few weeks later, struggles to get back to fight again. It's the underdog. That's a comeback. Like, in wrestling, when the heel gets heat on someone, and the babyface makes that good comeback, the fans get really into it. Like, Ricky Morton, he gets beaten up, and he gets that guts to make that tag, the crowd goes nuts. So, when building up long term angles, I don't understand why they don't let Cena off for a few weeks or so, build up his return, and then bam, he's back. He's not feeling the best, but he'll do his best against this vicious heel. It's drama. It's not wrestling logic, it's movie, theatre, and entertainment logic.
-Bad gimmicks I think people are getting no gimmicks. The last really bad gimmick was given to Steve Lewington/DJ Gabriel, with the dancing gimmick. It's giving nobody a shot to get to know people. That I remember anyway.
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andy82
Trap-Jaw
andy82, by request only
Posts: 429
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Post by andy82 on Jan 18, 2011 17:57:24 GMT -5
Near refusal to let main event talent job clean Midcard yo-yo pushes
These two interlink and are the worst culprits for what has happened to the product. They take midcard guys and give them a small, couple week push, but try and get them over without them beating the main guys cleanly, which simply doesn't work. Sheamus is the last main eventer from the last few years, how did he get there? He beat Cena and drew heat from it, that's how.
I'm a firm believer that WWE can turn anyone into a main event star, it's just they are too worried about protecting their main eventers from looking even slightly weak.
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Ozman
Samurai Cop
Chi-Town!!!
Posts: 2,378
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Post by Ozman on Jan 18, 2011 18:01:39 GMT -5
Other. Simply put pro-wrestling is no longer "cool". You can put on 5 star matches, have the best storylines, and amazing booking, and the ratings, and buyrates still won't go up much if the mainstream still thinks wrestling as something "dorky". This right here is your answer!!! The current "slump" has nothing to do with Cena or Hornswoggle. Wrestling simply isn't important to anyone but die hard wrestling fans. You could duplicate everything that was done in the "Attitude Era", and I GUARANTEE that ratings wouldn't go up one bit (just ask TNA). You could drop all of the Hornswoggle skits & the Soaring Eagle, and focus simply on wrestling, and I GUARANTEE ratings would go down even more (just ask the soon to be canceled ROH on HD Net). Think about it, if WWE is the reason for all that's wrong with wrestling, then why are TNA's ratings so damn bad despite being on the air for over FIVE YEARS!!! If WWE is the reason for all that's wrong with wrestling, then why is ROH on HD Net being canceled in a few months, despite the focus of the show being mainly the in ring product? WWE ain't the problem, wrestling simply isn't what's "in" right now, and it's a good chance it never will be "in" again, ESPECIALLY with the current HUGE popularity of UFC. I say simply be thankful that WWE is still in a profitable position, despite not being popular with the masses. And just for the record, I'm still a HUGE WWE fan, despite the fact that I've been also watching a lot of UFC lately, and starting to become a pretty big UFC fan as well.
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Post by WhiteFu on Jan 18, 2011 18:03:23 GMT -5
An out of touch senior citizen being in charge.
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Post by Timmy8271 on Jan 18, 2011 18:08:14 GMT -5
Too many matches being put on free tv. Cena should almost never wrestle on Raw and if he does, it should be against mid carders.
As for the FCW guys, if anything, they should bring up more guys. Bo Rotundo, Seth Rollins, Steamboat and AJ are all ready for the big time. Thank god they already put Curtis and Bateman on tv.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Jan 18, 2011 18:16:11 GMT -5
Unless they stop having a gigantic dork as their "star", get comedy writers who actually know that comedy isnt spelt with a K, and get a competent set of bookers, there will be no way of proving this. Wrestling was cool in the mid 80's, and then became less cool, and then had a huge resurgence in the late 90's. There is no reason to suggest pro wrestling cant have another boom period. But we'll never know because things dont seem like they'll change. Well then going by that pattern we'd have to wait a few years for another boom period. But I'm still not convinced that better booking and a better face of the company will create said boom. Was the attitude era so much better in booking and raising superstars than it is today? <- Serious question because I wasn't watching at the time so I would like to know what you think. I wasnt watching devoutly, but you had 2 undeniable stars of the highest quality, the greatest heel in the history of the business in Mr McMahon, a midcard and lowercard that were treated with respect, and a thriving tag division. Being in direct competition with WCW brought the best out of WWE. Here, you have 2 guys that are pushed as "stars" yet dont carry that aura. Plus a lazy booking team that books a main event and only a main event, is convinced that every tag team suscribes to the Jannetty/Michaels rule, and insists that John Cena is funny. Yes, the Attitude Era had a lot of tasteless parts, but the 90's was full of that, and as a result, it became wildly popular.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,911
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Post by Dub H on Jan 18, 2011 18:17:29 GMT -5
No doubt Yo Yo Push and not let top faces lose cleanly
Jack Swagger MVP
Both are victima of these injustices!
And wwe chosing what they like over what the fans like
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 18, 2011 18:19:15 GMT -5
[ Plus a lazy booking team that books a main event and only a main event, is convinced that every tag team suscribes to the Jannetty/Michaels rule, and insists that John Cena is funny. Believe it or not, a lot of people actually do find him funny. And they're not in the wrong for thinking that.
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Post by smokey1980 on Jan 18, 2011 18:26:26 GMT -5
I'll go with Other - UFC....not because I 100 percent agree with that argument, but because I'm shocked no one has mentioned it yet. I do think it plays a role.
EDIT : Oops! OzMania did mention it. I skimmed much too quickly before responding.
But I do think it is mostly because of wrestling not being cool. In the Monday Night Wars era, groups of friends would chip in and buy ppv's. I no longer have enough friends who like wrestling to do so, and sure as heck can't afford the luxury by myself.
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BHB
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,778
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Post by BHB on Jan 18, 2011 18:37:10 GMT -5
Stop start pushes seem to be a theme of the last few years.
Swagger - Pushed to the title then dropped a few months later, did nothing, got an eagle then when that got over was dropped - he's done nothing since
Sheamus - He's a guy who's been champion twice yet has only recently seemed to be at main event, but not championship, level.
Kofi - Got over huge against Orton then got dropped.
People won't care about these guys unless they steadily move up, earn there spot at the top and have the WWE's backing in doing so. In the case of Sheamus and Swagger it just makes the title look weak if anyone can win it and then lose it fairly quickly.
And of course there should only ever be one world champion.
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Post by Hurbster on Jan 18, 2011 18:40:24 GMT -5
No proper competition would be my vote.
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Post by Kevin's Thorn on Jan 18, 2011 18:49:13 GMT -5
Great poll. I think I'll make a counterpoint poll based on this one to examine the WWE's possible saving graces for the future.
As far as this thread goes, I agree with everyone who picked the 'main event talent refusing to look weak' one. Not everyone should be booked like Goldberg, only Goldberg should be booked like Goldberg-- because never losing is a gimmick. I remember loving the old WCW product because even though that was Goldberg's gimmick, the booking was very unpredictable and the storylines were compelling-- to the point that they had me convinced that The Disco Inferno was about to be the one to break Goldberg's win streak (when he was trying to get into the nWo Wolfpac). There is no such unpredictability with the WWE product, and the fact that Cena has verbatim buried the Miz as a champion not worthy of headlining Wrestlemania on live TV is pretty a shameless symptom of this curse.
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Post by potpie on Jan 18, 2011 18:56:43 GMT -5
How about the dang PRICE of the PPV's themselves? Even in a good economy, I wouldn't shell out $50 USD for Wrestlemania. I can think of better things to do with that money...like see a house show live in the front row. Even with the best card in the world booked, I can't afford to buy the PPVs, and most Americans can't either. That's why I fight the belligerently drunk fat guy for the best TV at Buffalo Wild Wings. Oh, and also- the sheer # of PPVs is too much to allow for enough time to book solidly for each one. They should cut back to 5 or 6 at the most.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Jan 18, 2011 19:02:34 GMT -5
[ Plus a lazy booking team that books a main event and only a main event, is convinced that every tag team suscribes to the Jannetty/Michaels rule, and insists that John Cena is funny. Believe it or not, a lot of people actually do find him funny. And they're not in the wrong for thinking that. He can be. Last nights opening promo was horrible.
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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on Jan 18, 2011 19:08:05 GMT -5
Selling shows based on stories rather than matches: This is fine except it's almost never the end, They always have a follow up on raw negating the purpose of the match.
I miss when a particular fued absolutly ended at X ppv, and if need be you can always re kindle later on.
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Post by Citizen Zero on Jan 18, 2011 19:11:01 GMT -5
Again, all of this comes back to a lack of competition. Vince and company thinkg they can book whatever they want, put whoever they want in the ring. And quite frankly,for now, they're right. There's nobody left to light a fire under their ass, so to speak.
Until another federation proves itself capable of competing directly with the WWE or the WWE starts screwing up so badly it puts itself out of business I don't think we're going to see another boom period for a long, long time.
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Post by foreveryoung on Jan 18, 2011 19:11:52 GMT -5
Wrestling isn't cool? Well you can add WWE itself to the list because WWE was either directly or indirectly involved in not making wrestling cool anymore. You had the best thing going in the history of wrestling with the monday night raws making viewership an all time high next to the 80s era and when WWE bought WCW that pretty much made wrestling just not cool to watch anymore. WCW lifted WWE's game and lets face it.. WWE or wrestling in general has never been right since. We all need different options. And two wrestling products going on Monday Night was great. What made wrestling "cool" was competition and two companies bring out the best in each other but at the same time you also had guys at the top who KNEW how to draw and get over and work and put on great interviews. Today you got a handful and the rest just aren't ready
In regards to just WWE, well lets face it.. Sure the company may not have a whole lot of confidence outside of a select choice of guys, but lets not forget the territories died where guys could earn their craft and we already years SEASONED before joining WWE. How many young seasoned guys are there in the WWE currently.. Not many. These guys need more then 6 months to a year playing in the minors before being brought up to the majors. I agree, creative is lacksidasical at times, but its tough to put a ton of money and stock into a guy who just isn't ready.
But the biggest problem is what happened going on 10 years ago in March. Wrestling hasn't been right since
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 18, 2011 21:06:11 GMT -5
Wrestling runs in cycles.
WWE is still doing astonishing business. Buildings are selling out, their ratings are extremely high. They're just comparing their current ratings to ratings at the very peak of the business itself, which is ridiculous.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Jan 18, 2011 22:29:56 GMT -5
Pretty much all of the choices
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