Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Oct 12, 2011 22:01:53 GMT -5
I think I can help you out here. You say you feel adequate at writing beat downs. Think of every match you write as a couple of guys taking turns beating each other down to win. If you ever feel like one guy is getting beaten down too much, switch roles. There's more to match writing than that, but that's a bare essentials style I think anyone could adopt. I hope you give it a try or two and see how relatively simple it is. While I do hope that we get more match writers, I think I understand why some of the members are confident in their ability to write beatdowns but not matches. See, I often get stuck in the middle of writing a match when I try to figure out how to shift the momentum. Like I might have a guy get hit with a vertical suplex, and then a DDT, and then spend some time in a Boston crab, and then I'll start thinking "Okay, I need this guy to come back, but he's got to do it in a way that doesn't make it seem like he's just no-selling all the punishment he took. How am i gonna do this?" With a beatdown, you don't have to worry about figuring that out, since it's totally one-sided. For heels: An eye rake, spit in the eye, low blow, etc. For faces: hulk up.
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Brainbustaaah!
Hank Scorpio
Best Damn Finishing Move Period
Posts: 5,600
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Post by Brainbustaaah! on Oct 12, 2011 22:10:22 GMT -5
While I do hope that we get more match writers, I think I understand why some of the members are confident in their ability to write beatdowns but not matches. See, I often get stuck in the middle of writing a match when I try to figure out how to shift the momentum. Like I might have a guy get hit with a vertical suplex, and then a DDT, and then spend some time in a Boston crab, and then I'll start thinking "Okay, I need this guy to come back, but he's got to do it in a way that doesn't make it seem like he's just no-selling all the punishment he took. How am i gonna do this?" With a beatdown, you don't have to worry about figuring that out, since it's totally one-sided. For heels: An eye rake, spit in the eye, low blow, etc. For faces: hulk up. Hulking up IS no-selling. For a face, I'd say have the heel jaw with the crowd or spend too much time setting up for their finisher/a big move, allowing the face to hit something and get his legs back under him.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,073
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Oct 12, 2011 22:28:58 GMT -5
Also, now that I'm no longer crazy, I finally found a new theme tune. First, it's this:
and then this:
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Oct 12, 2011 22:31:05 GMT -5
For heels: An eye rake, spit in the eye, low blow, etc. For faces: hulk up. Hulking up IS no-selling. For a face, I'd say have the heel jaw with the crowd or spend too much time setting up for their finisher/a big move, allowing the face to hit something and get his legs back under him. Yes. Yes it is no-selling. Faces can get away with that sometimes.
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Brainbustaaah!
Hank Scorpio
Best Damn Finishing Move Period
Posts: 5,600
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Post by Brainbustaaah! on Oct 12, 2011 22:32:19 GMT -5
Hulking up IS no-selling. For a face, I'd say have the heel jaw with the crowd or spend too much time setting up for their finisher/a big move, allowing the face to hit something and get his legs back under him. Yes. Yes it is no-selling. Faces can get away with that sometimes. Only reason I commented on it was Socko explicitly mentioning he didn't want them to just seem like they're no-selling everything that they got thrown at them.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Oct 12, 2011 22:41:06 GMT -5
Yes. Yes it is no-selling. Faces can get away with that sometimes. Only reason I commented on it was Socko explicitly mentioning he didn't want them to just seem like they're no-selling everything that they got thrown at them. Yeah. I mean, that's true. I think normally, when I write matches, I'm kind of uh, formulaic. It's why I don't really write them anymore. I usually have the loser lead the match, go through a few reversals and momentum shifters, and then the winner wins. And that's that.
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Post by Head Detective Aaron Enigma on Oct 13, 2011 0:31:11 GMT -5
I will write myself vs. Colt. I need to shake off my writing rust for matches so I can help again.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Oct 13, 2011 0:51:46 GMT -5
Only reason I commented on it was Socko explicitly mentioning he didn't want them to just seem like they're no-selling everything that they got thrown at them. Yeah. I mean, that's true. I think normally, when I write matches, I'm kind of uh, formulaic. It's why I don't really write them anymore. I usually have the loser lead the match, go through a few reversals and momentum shifters, and then the winner wins. And that's that. Formulaic or not, it's still another match written. That's my $0.02. Besides, since you know your formula, you know how to remix it.
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Oct 13, 2011 1:21:14 GMT -5
Yeah. I mean, that's true. I think normally, when I write matches, I'm kind of uh, formulaic. It's why I don't really write them anymore. I usually have the loser lead the match, go through a few reversals and momentum shifters, and then the winner wins. And that's that. Formulaic or not, it's still another match written. That's my $0.02. Besides, since you know your formula, you know how to remix it. I mean, frankly, right now, I don't write because I'm in three different writing classes. The promos are pretty much all I can muster, even in terms of time wise. With that said though, I can and am willing to write up matches if someone's willing to do the commentary and intros. (The hard part.) That's for sure.
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Post by Connor Mackenzie on Oct 13, 2011 10:21:29 GMT -5
I will write myself vs. Colt. I need to shake off my writing rust for matches so I can help again. Sure thing Aaron. I prefer to let those in a match who want to write it do so. Since I hadn't heard anything though, would it be alright if I contributed to the commentary of the match? With that being the case, I'd be willing to write the Seth vs Ryan match or the tag match. Which ever anyone doesn't want to write I guess. lol I mean, frankly, right now, I don't write because I'm in three different writing classes. The promos are pretty much all I can muster, even in terms of time wise. With that said though, I can and am willing to write up matches if someone's willing to do the commentary and intros. (The hard part.) That's for sure. I'm always willing to help if I'm able Viva so if you needed someone to write commentary and entrances I can certainly do that.
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smokinvokoun
Dennis Stamp
Daffy's Gonna Kill You
Posts: 4,770
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Post by smokinvokoun on Oct 13, 2011 10:58:18 GMT -5
I'll write Vokoun/Punisher vs Bergman/Evil M
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Post by Head Detective Aaron Enigma on Oct 13, 2011 11:59:12 GMT -5
That's fine. I have no problem with you writing commentary.
I honestly feel like commentary is the easiest part of the match to write, at least for me.
Once the match is written, it's really easy for me to put in commentary where it is needed.
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smokinvokoun
Dennis Stamp
Daffy's Gonna Kill You
Posts: 4,770
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Post by smokinvokoun on Oct 13, 2011 12:00:58 GMT -5
I don't know if I ever been in a Three way Dance. And with two guys who has been here longer than I have....I don't like my chances in retaining at all.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Oct 13, 2011 12:14:40 GMT -5
If Bergman wins, he could be the first person to win every belt that is considered legit.
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Post by Connor Mackenzie on Oct 13, 2011 13:10:04 GMT -5
That's fine. I have no problem with you writing commentary. I honestly feel like commentary is the easiest part of the match to write, at least for me. Once the match is written, it's really easy for me to put in commentary where it is needed. Blerg, my bad. I meant to have Connor added to commentary on that match as I was hoping to maybe have him there since it's the CoH contender match. If you want to do the commentary too and I just add in Connor's bits after we could do that too.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Oct 13, 2011 13:47:39 GMT -5
Speaking of commentary, the style I've lately used kills two birds with one stone by being actual play-by-play commentary that leaves description for actions that are not clearly conveyed by commentary. Ever since I adopted the style, match-writing had become far quicker for me without losing the dynamics I had before. I recommend others try it out (Evil M mentioned that he used to do it that way too).
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Oct 13, 2011 13:53:12 GMT -5
Hulking up IS no-selling. For a face, I'd say have the heel jaw with the crowd or spend too much time setting up for their finisher/a big move, allowing the face to hit something and get his legs back under him. Yes. Yes it is no-selling. Faces can get away with that sometimes. It happens, sure, but it's not necessarily popular; if it were, then everybody would love John Cena. And it isn't just him either, or even just WWE; Dragon Gate's gotten some criticism for having their workers bounce right back up sometimes after getting hit with a big move or four, for example. I'll write Vokoun/Punisher vs Bergman/Evil M I really appreciate you volunteering for that, Vokoun, but I remembered earlier that when Punisher had sent me Zombo/Crulk he included a request to write the next match with Castle in it, and I never got back to him. Anyway, since he sort of called it first he can have it if he wants it, and if he doesn't then it's yours, I guess.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Oct 13, 2011 13:59:41 GMT -5
I think Viva's point is that heels can shift match momentum by using cheap tactics whereas faces can shift momentum with willpower and fighting spirit. That pretty much is the case with most actual pro wrestling.
One can look at it as the face no-selling the heel moves, but all you need is to describe the face as fighting through their injuries or the like.
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Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Oct 13, 2011 14:14:45 GMT -5
I think Viva's point is that heels can shift match momentum by using cheap tactics whereas faces can shift momentum with willpower and fighting spirit. That pretty much is the case with most actual pro wrestling. One can look at it as the face no-selling the held moves, but ask you need is to describe the face as fighting through their injuries or the like. Hmm, okay. The phrase "hulking up" always makes me think of Hogan's shtick where nothing you hit him with had any effect, as opposed to a face stopping the heel's offense with a big move out of nowhere and then really expending a lot of effort to get back up and go on the attack some more before the heel can shake it off. The latter's a lot better IMHO.
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The Punisher
Unicron
"They don't fear the law. They fear me..."
Posts: 3,082
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Post by The Punisher on Oct 13, 2011 15:09:33 GMT -5
Yes. Yes it is no-selling. Faces can get away with that sometimes. It happens, sure, but it's not necessarily popular; if it were, then everybody would love John Cena. And it isn't just him either, or even just WWE; Dragon Gate's gotten some criticism for having their workers bounce right back up sometimes after getting hit with a big move or four, for example. I'll write Vokoun/Punisher vs Bergman/Evil M I really appreciate you volunteering for that, Vokoun, but I remembered earlier that when Punisher had sent me Zombo/Crulk he included a request to write the next match with Castle in it, and I never got back to him. Anyway, since he sort of called it first he can have it if he wants it, and if he doesn't then it's yours, I guess. I'm happy if Vokoun wants to write our tag match instead of me - if so, I'm happy to write any of the others not yet allocated.
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