Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,391
|
Post by Legion on May 23, 2011 17:56:02 GMT -5
Marvel might not have done a Crisis style event, but they've certainly gone back and retold character's origins and previous adventures quite often. I may not be getting exactly what you mean here, so if I interpreted this wrong, please correct me, but Marvel's only really done that whole hog with the Ultimate Universe, and maybe the Noir universe(I'm not too deep into those books, so I don't know how accurate that is to say), and those are standalone universes as opposed to full reboots like DC does every decade or so. I think they have updated Tony's origin in canon so as to fit both with the film and with a more recent war. So instead of him being stuck in Vietnam he gets stuck in Afghanistan or something. Beyond that I can't think of any though and suppose his makes sense in so far as it was linked to a historical event so it had to be changed. In twenty years it'll likely need changing to another place.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on May 23, 2011 18:01:39 GMT -5
And yes, I would agree on the WCW thing. Although one has to wonder if that means that DC is now TNA? Come on, be fair. DC isn't that incomprehensible.
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,391
|
Post by Legion on May 23, 2011 18:09:52 GMT -5
Pfffft, Morrison says hi (I know he's flavour of the month but I think the guy writes a terrible event)
|
|
|
Post by hossfan on May 23, 2011 18:11:42 GMT -5
Marvel might not have done a Crisis style event, but they've certainly gone back and retold character's origins and previous adventures quite often. I may not be getting exactly what you mean here, so if I interpreted this wrong, please correct me, but Marvel's only really done that whole hog with the Ultimate Universe, and maybe the Noir universe(I'm not too deep into those books, so I don't know how accurate that is to say), and those are standalone universes as opposed to full reboots like DC does every decade or so. I mean they've retold characters' origins and histories in new books in order to update them. Spider-Man Chapter One being the most infamous example, but there's been others.
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,391
|
Post by Legion on May 23, 2011 18:16:58 GMT -5
I may not be getting exactly what you mean here, so if I interpreted this wrong, please correct me, but Marvel's only really done that whole hog with the Ultimate Universe, and maybe the Noir universe(I'm not too deep into those books, so I don't know how accurate that is to say), and those are standalone universes as opposed to full reboots like DC does every decade or so. I mean they've retold characters' origins and histories in new books in order to update them. Spider-Man Chapter One being the most infamous example, but there's been others. No longer canon. It was, but they changed it back seen as the series didnt work out.
|
|
Thaal Sinestro
Hank Scorpio
In Brightest Night, In Blackest Day. Etc.
Posts: 5,012
|
Post by Thaal Sinestro on May 23, 2011 18:18:37 GMT -5
Pfffft, Morrison says hi (I know he's flavour of the month but I think the guy writes a terrible event) I'll agree with that. Only thing I understood was Manhunter getting killed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 18:19:03 GMT -5
It'll be just another gimmick that'll be ignored after a few months. Though this does have the stink of Heroes Reborn about it.
I have mixed feelings about DCs decisions over the last few years. Bringing back Hal Jordan undid some rubbish stories (Zero Hour, pretty much everything to come out of Jordan's heel. Though Rayner's run on the title was usually pretty good) and gave us some awesome ones (Sinestro Corps War and I personally much prefer Parallax as the bug, makes everything seem grander to me). Plus we've recently seen the return of Swamp Thing and Constantine to the main DCU and hopefully that will result in some good stories. But some of it seems unnecessary. People have clamoured for Barry Allen's return for years, but it was completely at the expense of Wally West. He's barely been featured since the return and to me he's such a great character that its an enormous shame.
It really depends on the character that these supposed Silver Age influences are a good thing or not. Green Lantern - Good. Flash - not so much. I personally would love a return to the Silver Age situation of Superman but with modern writing. I love Superman but he's never been done better than in All-Star Superman, which combined more modern elements (just general writing style, Superman fighting on an incredibly cosmic scale such as the Bizarro fight) with Silver Age aesthetics such as the Superman-Lois relationship, the characterisation of Luthor and the Daily Planet. With the exception of Action Comics #775, no Superman stories have come even close to touching on the awesomeness of the character and I believe that much of that comes from the character's convoluted yet somehow ill-defined history.
However, in my opinion at least, Batman is is phenomenal at the moment, and any attempts to 'go back to basics' or a return to the silver age formula would severly undermine that, as his history is well-defined and has lead to real development in the character, his mythos and his rogues gallery.
As I said, I doubt its permenant and will probably just last a couple of months. It is annoying, it is gimmicky and I don't see the point, but at least it'll be temporary. All I'm saying is that some of the Silver Age redux stuff has been fantastic, but it as at best very hit and miss and, really, intensely subjective.
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,391
|
Post by Legion on May 23, 2011 18:23:32 GMT -5
I'm one of the few that loved heel Hal. I loved Zero Hour. I loved Kyle. He was my GL. Parallax was a brilliant concept - the hero gone mad. Unfortunately it was an event that DC used to make sweeping changes and it just pissed people off.
I wont comment on Superman. I've never got the character. I wont spew hate at fans.
Current Bruce Wayne is great, current Batman is watered down. But alot of that comes from my dislike of the Batman Inc branding.
|
|
|
Post by hossfan on May 23, 2011 18:24:52 GMT -5
I mean they've retold characters' origins and histories in new books in order to update them. Spider-Man Chapter One being the most infamous example, but there's been others. No longer canon. It was, but they changed it back seen as the series didnt work out. Doesn't matter whether its canon or not anymore. My point was Marvel has done more than its fair share of rebooting or retelling their characters' stories just like DC.
|
|
Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,391
|
Post by Legion on May 23, 2011 18:30:50 GMT -5
No longer canon. It was, but they changed it back seen as the series didnt work out. Doesn't matter whether its canon or not anymore. My point was Marvel has done more than its fair share of rebooting or retelling their characters' stories just like DC. Well, two examples so far, one that's since been retconned away again. It doesnt really come close to comparing, but I see your point. With some character it's almost inevitable, with others, utterly unneeded. Which helps me remember another Marvel example - Max Eisenhardt or whatever the hell
|
|
|
Post by hossfan on May 23, 2011 18:45:13 GMT -5
One More Day/Brand New Day is essentially a reboot. Bucky/Winter Soldier as well. Then there are series like Thor: First Thunder, Strange, Captain America: Man Out of Time, and the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes stuff Joe Casey did.
|
|
|
Post by s l i k on May 23, 2011 19:06:55 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 23, 2011 19:19:41 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I know it's a well worn opinion, and I'm not exactly original for having it, but Silver Age Batman was freaking gay as the day is long. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but just.....wow. What are you talking about? That's not Silver Age though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 19:36:11 GMT -5
I'm one of the few that loved heel Hal. I loved Zero Hour. I loved Kyle. He was my GL. Parallax was a brilliant concept - the hero gone mad. Unfortunately it was an event that DC used to make sweeping changes and it just pissed people off. I wont comment on Superman. I've never got the character. I wont spew hate at fans. Current Bruce Wayne is great, current Batman is watered down. But alot of that comes from my dislike of the Batman Inc branding. And thats all fine. One of the great things about comics is theres so many characters that theres something for everyone. The trouble is that you're never gonna make everyone happy and thats what events like Flashpoint seem to try. It just annoys me because its such a tired gimmick. All I want, is fun and inventive stories with my favourite characters, with character development that emerges slowly and organically from the narrative. I'm so tired of HERE IS WHERE EVERYTHING CHANGES events, or hell just events in general. Whilst I haven't been amazed with Fear Itself so far, its been a while since a BIG Marvel event (Siege didn't really count) and I like that fact that its an event that has spawned from two different books and focuses on them. Flashpoint is yet another multiverse/reset button event that will ultimately mean nothing and interrupts stuff I'm interested in because the company has decided that this is what I want to read. Urgh, sod it and ah well <goes back to reading Booster Gold tpbs>
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 23, 2011 19:41:05 GMT -5
I'm one of the few that loved heel Hal. I loved Zero Hour. I loved Kyle. He was my GL. Parallax was a brilliant concept - the hero gone mad. Unfortunately it was an event that DC used to make sweeping changes and it just pissed people off. I wont comment on Superman. I've never got the character. I wont spew hate at fans. Current Bruce Wayne is great, current Batman is watered down. But alot of that comes from my dislike of the Batman Inc branding. And thats all fine. One of the great things about comics is theres so many characters that theres something for everyone. The trouble is that you're never gonna make everyone happy and thats what events like Flashpoint seem to try. It just annoys me because its such a tired gimmick. All I want, is fun and inventive stories with my favourite characters, with character development that emerges slowly and organically from the narrative. I'm so tired of HERE IS WHERE EVERYTHING CHANGES events, or hell just events in general. Whilst I haven't been amazed with Fear Itself so far, its been a while since a BIG Marvel event (Siege didn't really count) and I like that fact that its an event that has spawned from two different books and focuses on them. Flashpoint is yet another multiverse/reset button event that will ultimately mean nothing and interrupts stuff I'm interested in because the company has decided that this is what I want to read. Urgh, sod it and ah well <goes back to reading Booster Gold tpbs> Agreed; as I said, this is just lazy. You don't have to do any sorta real character development or keep a compelling narrative going when you can just have ' THE UNIVERSE THREATENED!!!' one more time over and over again. It obviously sells, but given that comics fans by and large are in our same age range and for the most part have seen this same thing over and over again I can't understand why as I got beyond tired of the same ploy under the guise of storytelling YEARS ago. Eh, I guess it's obviously not really for me, so it doesn't matter. I'm just glad there's Vertigo and Dark Horse around.
|
|
Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
|
Post by Bub (BLM) on May 23, 2011 20:35:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I know it's a well worn opinion, and I'm not exactly original for having it, but Silver Age Batman was freaking gay as the day is long. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but just.....wow. Only up to a certain point, though. The Denny O'Neil/Neal Adams run on Batman in the 70's is what really defines the Silver Age Batman, and that was arguably the best run on any comic ever. They turned Batman back into a mysterious detective, turned The Joker back into a psychopathic murderer, and they created Ra's al Ghul. It's really phenomenal stuff.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,950
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 23, 2011 20:39:35 GMT -5
I never really got a gay vibe from Batman, at least in his dealings with Robin, who is pretty much his kid.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 23, 2011 22:02:58 GMT -5
The Batman/Robin gay thing came solely from Frederic Wertham's book 'Seduction of the Innocent' where he implied that just because Batman, Robin, and Alfred shared a house that there were homosexual implications, which I think says more about where Wertham's head was at than anything else.
As a result DC introduced Aunt Harriet for awhile; and decades worth of lame jokes ensued.
Like you said though, Dick was Bruce's ward, or essentially adopted son, the vibe was never in the actual books.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2011 22:13:21 GMT -5
LOL. So what's he going to do about securing locations that are landlocked?
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on May 23, 2011 22:17:26 GMT -5
LOL. So what's he going to do about securing locations that are landlocked? Aquaman still has superpowers on land, you know? Also, you'd have to imagine that someone who could completely cut off the oceans from being used by the land would be able to seriously screw stuff up. They're relied on quite a bit.
|
|