543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
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Post by 543Y2J on Mar 16, 2012 19:18:11 GMT -5
But Wrestlemania DOES feel important this year.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Mar 16, 2012 19:43:32 GMT -5
they should have had Sheamus announce which belt he was going after the night after the Rumble They did that with del Rio last year, and while there were plenty of other factors contributing to the horrible buyrate the Elimination Chamber did, the fact that they ended up telegraphing who'd win the big matches certainly didn't help.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Mar 16, 2012 19:56:54 GMT -5
So basically Wrestlemania 4 minus the world title? Also the Miz current storyline is that he's going to miss being on the card due to his losing record.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 16, 2012 20:53:01 GMT -5
Ok, anyone posting "But Wrestlemania does feel important this year" hasn't read the original post, so cut it out, now. At least address the actual topic. Outside of maybe cancelling the Feburary PPV, I don't think there's much else they can do to increase Wrestlemania's already huge importance. Wrestlers scrambling and desperately trying to get to Wrestlemania is already a tried and true storyline, and I fear a playoff would just drive that into the ground. And as for making it feel more like a real sport, I dunno. The cat's been out of the bag for a while, so I don't think that suspension of disbelief has been the primary allure of pro wrestling since the rise of Hulkamania. I know that over-the-top stuff like the Cena/Kane/Ryder affair doesn't make wrestling look very dignified, but that's not something it's ever going to be anyway. To avoid having done-to-death matchups, I'd suggest a brand merger- and I still think the roster's a bit too big to implement that right now, Supershows or not. Now I'm not saying that any change would necessarily be bad, but Wrestlemania is pretty much guaranteed to get superfight-level PPV buys just on name value alone, so it's not as if its current format is failing. I'm not really sure what "tried and true" storyline you're referring to. Outside of guys trying to win the title or the Rumble, I've never heard of a storyline where a few guys had a chance to make it onto a match, any match, at WM, but could only do it if they qualified in some way. In fact, WM is usually a show where everybody gets on the card, which used to be fine, but means a lot less (in my opinion) in this post-jobber era. I also didn't say to make it like a real sport when it comes to characters or whatever; quite the contrary, in fact. I'm referring to getting fans to actually cheer for a guy based on a storyline that has parallels with the world of sports: it's like cheering an underdog college to make the big dance as a #15 or #16 team, or cheering for a second tier hockey or basketball team to sneak in as the #8 seed in the playoffs. Wrestling's obviously predetermined, but it'd be nice for fans to actually give a damn about who wins or loses matches a lot more often. You could build entire angles around just trying to qualify. What my theory boils down to is that just putting everybody on WM these days really doesn't do anything anymore, not when it feels like everybody is on every Raw and Smackdown every week, and on every PPV every month. You used to be able to do it (e.g. WM 4 battle royal, etc.), but again, back then every big name guy seemed important, and you never saw the same guys every week. Since you can't do that anymore, it'd be cool, to me, if WM became something a guy could kind of "put on his resume". Lower Card Guy A gets to run with it for the entire year.
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Post by KofiMania on Mar 16, 2012 21:09:08 GMT -5
Ok, anyone posting "But Wrestlemania does feel important this year" hasn't read the original post, so cut it out, now. At least address the actual topic. Outside of maybe cancelling the Feburary PPV, I don't think there's much else they can do to increase Wrestlemania's already huge importance. Wrestlers scrambling and desperately trying to get to Wrestlemania is already a tried and true storyline, and I fear a playoff would just drive that into the ground. And as for making it feel more like a real sport, I dunno. The cat's been out of the bag for a while, so I don't think that suspension of disbelief has been the primary allure of pro wrestling since the rise of Hulkamania. I know that over-the-top stuff like the Cena/Kane/Ryder affair doesn't make wrestling look very dignified, but that's not something it's ever going to be anyway. To avoid having done-to-death matchups, I'd suggest a brand merger- and I still think the roster's a bit too big to implement that right now, Supershows or not. Now I'm not saying that any change would necessarily be bad, but Wrestlemania is pretty much guaranteed to get superfight-level PPV buys just on name value alone, so it's not as if its current format is failing. I'm not really sure what "tried and true" storyline you're referring to. Outside of guys trying to win the title or the Rumble, I've never heard of a storyline where a few guys had a chance to make it onto a match, any match, at WM, but could only do it if they qualified in some way. In fact, WM is usually a show where everybody gets on the card, which used to be fine, but means a lot less (in my opinion) in this post-jobber era. I also didn't say to make it like a real sport when it comes to characters or whatever; quite the contrary, in fact. I'm referring to getting fans to actually cheer for a guy based on a storyline that has parallels with the world of sports: it's like cheering an underdog college to make the big dance as a #15 or #16 team, or cheering for a second tier hockey or basketball team to sneak in as the #8 seed in the playoffs. Wrestling's obviously predetermined, but it'd be nice for fans to actually give a damn about who wins or loses matches a lot more often. You could build entire angles around just trying to qualify. What my theory boils down to is that just putting everybody on WM these days really doesn't do anything anymore, not when it feels like everybody is on every Raw and Smackdown every week, and on every PPV every month. You used to be able to do it (e.g. WM 4 battle royal, etc.), but again, back then every big name guy seemed important, and you never saw the same guys every week. Since you can't do that anymore, it'd be cool, to me, if WM became something a guy could kind of "put on his resume". Lower Card Guy A gets to run with it for the entire year. 1. WrestleMania usually feels super important every single year. 2. "Qualifying" to get on the card sounds nice in theory but then wouldn't the storylines for the actual Mania matches that they qualify for be kind of lacking?
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 16, 2012 23:46:06 GMT -5
Ok, anyone posting "But Wrestlemania does feel important this year" hasn't read the original post, so cut it out, now. At least address the actual topic. I'm not really sure what "tried and true" storyline you're referring to. Outside of guys trying to win the title or the Rumble, I've never heard of a storyline where a few guys had a chance to make it onto a match, any match, at WM, but could only do it if they qualified in some way. In fact, WM is usually a show where everybody gets on the card, which used to be fine, but means a lot less (in my opinion) in this post-jobber era. I also didn't say to make it like a real sport when it comes to characters or whatever; quite the contrary, in fact. I'm referring to getting fans to actually cheer for a guy based on a storyline that has parallels with the world of sports: it's like cheering an underdog college to make the big dance as a #15 or #16 team, or cheering for a second tier hockey or basketball team to sneak in as the #8 seed in the playoffs. Wrestling's obviously predetermined, but it'd be nice for fans to actually give a damn about who wins or loses matches a lot more often. You could build entire angles around just trying to qualify. What my theory boils down to is that just putting everybody on WM these days really doesn't do anything anymore, not when it feels like everybody is on every Raw and Smackdown every week, and on every PPV every month. You used to be able to do it (e.g. WM 4 battle royal, etc.), but again, back then every big name guy seemed important, and you never saw the same guys every week. Since you can't do that anymore, it'd be cool, to me, if WM became something a guy could kind of "put on his resume". Lower Card Guy A gets to run with it for the entire year. 1. WrestleMania usually feels super important every single year. 2. "Qualifying" to get on the card sounds nice in theory but then wouldn't the storylines for the actual Mania matches that they qualify for be kind of lacking? For #1, I simply disagree. I don't see much important about it, especially since the last two I saw seemed like very lackluster shows (especially last year). For #2...how so? There's ways around it, and feuds and #1 contenders to belts can be set in place well in advance of WM.
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zing
Don Corleone
Talk about him more!
Posts: 1,545
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Post by zing on Mar 17, 2012 8:54:56 GMT -5
I reckon qualifying is a decent idea across the board. It was idiotic that the EC participants were just announced this year without any kayfabe reasoning. It's an easy way to build up the importance of the match, build up the chances of those who qualify by showing them as strong contenders and start feuds with those who fail to qualify. Same could be said for a MITB match. Having worthwhile number 1 contenders matches for all of the belts would do likewise. Making the belts below the world titles important again would also help a great deal. Do any of the champions other than Punk and DBD actually have a proper angle going at the moment? It's an easy way to start a feud that gets lower and midcard talent over! The main thing to make PPVs seem important is to make sure everyone has something to do on the weekly shows so that interest is retained without having to spend hours a week on Cena and Rock promos. Don't just say that someone like Justin Gabriel isn't over enough, get him over! That way, you can rely on other guys fans are interested in carrying the show without needing to put the PPV match on five times in the lead up to the climax of a feud. Plus, you get the added benefit of guys being able to move up the card convincingly and boring repetitive predictable feuds are avoided.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Mar 17, 2012 9:58:02 GMT -5
I do think that they should be doing a lot more to really emphasize how important it is to be apart of the WrestleMania card. I don’t see the harm in having superstars incorporate into their promos or backstage segments just how good it feels to be going there. How it means more money and more exposure, how good their standing in the company has to be in order to be a part of it. Only the best that WWE has to offer should be a part of WrestleMania. If you’re seeing Cody Rhodes or Dolph Ziggler participating on the card, it’s because they actually matter to the company. That’s something that should be drilled into the audiences’ heads. “Hey, Kofi Kingston is at WrestleMania. He must be getting pretty big.”
WWE could also be doing a lot more to emphasize just how big WrestleMania is for them as well. I like how in the lead up to SummerSlam and the Royal Rumble, WWE often has a list of famous moments that happened at those pay-per-views. Why they don’t do that for ‘Mania, which is full of legendary moments and matches, I have no idea. Video packages made of that special “WrestleMania moment”, of superstars talking about their favorite ‘Mania experiences, maybe even fans talking about their favorite WrestleManias and their favorite moments to happen at those shows (e.x. someone talking about how they witnessed Hogan slamming Andre; Austin discussing his first title win at ‘Mania 14). I liked how some elements of this were brought into Triple H’s feud with Sheamus before WrestleMania 26. That kind of stuff goes a lot way towards making the show actually feel important.
Fresh matchups would be pretty nice, but in an age where Cena (who’s always going to be in the main event) has fought with every upper-midcard/main event superstar at least once, I don’t think that’s very possible. If not Rock, then who exactly would Cena go against? CM Punk? Sheamus? Randy Orton? Triple H? Miz? Alberto del Rio? Mark Henry? They’ve all be done several times before. The only fresh options that could actually be a ‘Mania main event would be Undertaker and Daniel Bryan. That’s something that WrestleMania 28 has in its favor, and makes it feel bigger than the shows before it. Cena vs. Rock is a big match that fans haven’t seen yet. Hopefully, that will result in a good buyrate. WWE should do a lot more to keep its main event guys from running into each other so that this stops being a problem. I know this was touched on in the OP, but it’s pretty relevant to the discussion. As long as WWE keeps exhausting every big match, WrestleMania won’t feel pretty important. Why should I pay for matches that I’ve seen dozens of times before?
I like the idea of qualifying matches, but I don't think they should be applied to everyone. Certain guys like John Cena, CM Punk, Randy Orton, Undertaker, etc. shouldn't have to qualify. They've already proven that they deserve their spots. Keep it for more midcard level people.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 10:18:04 GMT -5
I LOVE the idea of the OGP. It plays well off of March Madness, and it adds that sports feel that could set Mania apart more. It's in a massive football stadium for starters, play that up more.
My main thing for Mania is not having all these epic encounters...in fact, I like the older Wrestlemanias with a solid midcard building to THE big time main event match for the WWF title, and that match has THE big angle running behind it. Now that there's 2 top belts plus legend/special attraction matches, and they're all fighting for TV time and the promotion is scattershot as a result. Mania 4 had Steamboat/Savage and Hogan/Andre, Mania 14 had Taker/Kane and Austin/Michaels. You need a main event, and you need a semi-main event. You don't need 4 main events you try to push on an equal level.
The main problem is having 2 top champions and having these overblown legend showdowns overshadow them. It's good for business in one way, loading up the card to sell the show, but in my humble, uninformed opinion it hurts business in the long term.
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klapaucius
Don Corleone
Johnny Two Times
Posts: 1,486
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Post by klapaucius on Mar 17, 2012 10:54:34 GMT -5
It feels important every year to me
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Post by PTBartman on Mar 17, 2012 11:02:39 GMT -5
I LOVE the idea of the OGP. It plays well off of March Madness, and it adds that sports feel that could set Mania apart more. It's in a massive football stadium for starters, play that up more. My main thing for Mania is not having all these epic encounters...in fact, I like the older Wrestlemanias with a solid midcard building to THE big time main event match for the WWF title, and that match has THE big angle running behind it. Now that there's 2 top belts plus legend/special attraction matches, and they're all fighting for TV time and the promotion is scattershot as a result. Mania 4 had Steamboat/Savage and Hogan/Andre, Mania 14 had Taker/Kane and Austin/Michaels. You need a main event, and you need a semi-main event. You don't need 4 main events you try to push on an equal level. The main problem is having 2 top champions and having these overblown legend showdowns overshadow them. It's good for business in one way, loading up the card to sell the show, but in my humble, uninformed opinion it hurts business in the long term. Steambot/Savage and Hogan/Andre was WM3. It also had Roddy Pipers retirement Match vs Adonis.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 17, 2012 11:14:08 GMT -5
I'm mixed about eliminating the Feb PPV. I do agree however either A. They end the brands or B. Go back too Brand only PPVs. Which I know the reason why the stop doing brand only is because the very weak Buyrates and Cards.
I think they need to get rid of one of the World titles. I feel it takes away from the guy who wins the Rumble. When someone else like Jericho this is was a runner Up still has a shot at the gold. What did Jericho do too get his shot? Really Nothing. Yes I look forward too the match itself don't get me wrong. But Jericho didn't really earn it.
Or if not get rid of a title. Make someone really earn that other title shot. Maybe instead of the Elimination Chamber being two title matches. Make it just one chamber match. And this chamber match has six guys who between The Rumble and PPV qualify to be in it. The winner gets the shot at the other title that the Rumble winner doesn't pick. So no only is the chamber match means more by being just one. But someone has too go through hell too get the other shot like the Rumble winner did.
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