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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 28, 2012 16:13:10 GMT -5
The reason they don't do that is simple. They honestly can't afford to. If they called their wrestlers employees, they'd have to give them the benefits that they give everybody else, which would include health insurance. That alone would cost them an OBSCENE amount of money to cover everybody on the active roster and those in FCW. If they went that route, they'd be hemorrhaging money and a LOT of wrestlers would be out of a job simply because the WWE couldn't afford to keep them. If the WWE could find a way to classify the wrestlers as employees, and have it not take a giant blunderbuss shot to their bank account, they would. OH, give me a break: this is clearly not a fair argument. IF the WWE had their wrestlers on as true employees with true benefits, then clearly it's not useful to imagine that situation as somehow identical to the way things work now except with that single change. The culture of the company would have to change: They'd have to hire fewer people and be more careful about it, they'd have to give up their obsession with maintaining the illusion that "you make it on your own if you deserve to!", they'd have to have MUCH better organization and structure, they'd have to have ways of motivating their wrestlers beyond the carrot of just getting to be a wrestler in front of big crowds one more night. It's not that the poor little WWE can't afford to give its wrestlers benefits and cries in its pillow about it every night. It's that they've stumbled upon a business model where the workers will put up with being treated these terrible ways, because they've all wanted to do this since they were eight. It's below us all to act like the WWE somehow couldn't make money if they restructured to treat their wrestlers better. It's just, they'd have to change and finally break out of the ludicrous antiquated territory mindset, and eh, why should we do that if we don't have to? It's laziness.
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Post by xCompackx on Apr 28, 2012 16:43:34 GMT -5
The reason they don't do that is simple. They honestly can't afford to. If they called their wrestlers employees, they'd have to give them the benefits that they give everybody else, which would include health insurance. That alone would cost them an OBSCENE amount of money to cover everybody on the active roster and those in FCW. If they went that route, they'd be hemorrhaging money and a LOT of wrestlers would be out of a job simply because the WWE couldn't afford to keep them. If the WWE could find a way to classify the wrestlers as employees, and have it not take a giant blunderbuss shot to their bank account, they would. OH, give me a break: this is clearly not a fair argument. IF the WWE had their wrestlers on as true employees with true benefits, then clearly it's not useful to imagine that situation as somehow identical to the way things work now except with that single change. The culture of the company would have to change: They'd have to hire fewer people and be more careful about it, they'd have to give up their obsession with maintaining the illusion that "you make it on your own if you deserve to!", they'd have to have MUCH better organization and structure, they'd have to have ways of motivating their wrestlers beyond the carrot of just getting to be a wrestler in front of big crowds one more night. It's not that the poor little WWE can't afford to give its wrestlers benefits and cries in its pillow about it every night. It's that they've stumbled upon a business model where the workers will put up with being treated these terrible ways, because they've all wanted to do this since they were eight. It's below us all to act like the WWE somehow couldn't make money if they restructured to treat their wrestlers better. It's just, they'd have to change and finally break out of the ludicrous antiquated territory mindset, and eh, why should we do that if we don't have to? It's laziness. How do we know they don't treat their guys well? They have a strict Wellness Policy, they offer rehab to any ex-wrestler, and they have a fully trained medical team. The idea that "WWE could give these guys full health insurance if they wanted to" just can't happen. Could you imagine how much ANY health insurance place would charge them for all of their wrestlers? You'd be seeing a lot of gimmick matches go away if they did that (MitB, steel cage, HIAC, others). It really isn't a morality issue or a way to treat people badly, it really would destroy them financially.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 28, 2012 17:52:15 GMT -5
OH, give me a break: this is clearly not a fair argument. IF the WWE had their wrestlers on as true employees with true benefits, then clearly it's not useful to imagine that situation as somehow identical to the way things work now except with that single change. The culture of the company would have to change: They'd have to hire fewer people and be more careful about it, they'd have to give up their obsession with maintaining the illusion that "you make it on your own if you deserve to!", they'd have to have MUCH better organization and structure, they'd have to have ways of motivating their wrestlers beyond the carrot of just getting to be a wrestler in front of big crowds one more night. It's not that the poor little WWE can't afford to give its wrestlers benefits and cries in its pillow about it every night. It's that they've stumbled upon a business model where the workers will put up with being treated these terrible ways, because they've all wanted to do this since they were eight. It's below us all to act like the WWE somehow couldn't make money if they restructured to treat their wrestlers better. It's just, they'd have to change and finally break out of the ludicrous antiquated territory mindset, and eh, why should we do that if we don't have to? It's laziness. How do we know they don't treat their guys well? They have a strict Wellness Policy, they offer rehab to any ex-wrestler, and they have a fully trained medical team. The idea that "WWE could give these guys full health insurance if they wanted to" just can't happen. Could you imagine how much ANY health insurance place would charge them for all of their wrestlers? You'd be seeing a lot of gimmick matches go away if they did that (MitB, steel cage, HIAC, others). It really isn't a morality issue or a way to treat people badly, it really would destroy them financially. It's not solely black or white either way though. In fact, it's pretty plain to see that the old carny mentality of bookers treating talent 'like a prize horse that they run till it breaks its leg and take 'em out back and shoot 'em' does have some validity. It's gotten better in the last decade or so, sure, but it's still pretty draconian the way they utilize the whole "independent contractor" thing. While there's probably some truth to what some are saying about the financial feasibility, or at least the difficulty there-in, of things like health insurance etc, let's also not act like that's the only reason talent isn't given standard employee contracts and the contractor thing isn't a loophole that benefits the company as much, if not more, in some cases WAY more, than the wrestlers themselves.
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Post by Red Impact on Apr 28, 2012 17:56:31 GMT -5
But again, even if they treated them as employees, unless they were forced to by law, they wouldn't put wrestlers on a company health insurance plan. That's not a legally required benefit as of right now. They'd have to give Worker's Comp, but IIRC, they pretty much do that already by paying for injuries and rehab. The only benefits that they wrestlers would be entitled to are unemployment and social security.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 28, 2012 17:59:45 GMT -5
Not necessarily, as they could also potentially unionize and fight for more as standard employees. As of now, it's every man and woman for themselves.
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Post by Red Impact on Apr 28, 2012 18:04:04 GMT -5
And as Connecticut is an at-will employment state, WWE would be able to fire anyone who starts talking union on the spot. Even if you got, say, John Cena aboard, someone they wouldn't fire, they'd have no qualms about firing people beneath him until the guys coming in got the message.
"You're not on his level, if you utter the word union, you're gone."
There are far too many people on the indies who would jump at the chance at WWE for a union to form.
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Famous Rocking Chimes
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Post by Famous Rocking Chimes on Apr 29, 2012 9:53:52 GMT -5
As noted before, Rey Mysterio was suspended for 60 days last week for violating the WWE Wellness Policy for a second time. Rey reportedly failed the drug test back on February 13th but wasn’t suspended until this month.
Rey reportedly tested positive for amphetamines.
Rey showed up to the RAW Supershow on February 13th in San Diego but before he could settled in and say hello to everyone, he was informed that he had to go right in for drug testing. A week later, Vince McMahon was upset with Rey but at the time, nobody knew why.
Rey couldn’t believe that he tested positive for amphetamines and says he has been living his life clean. WWE officials asked Mysterio about which medications he was taking and he was upfront about everything. A few days ago, officials called him and asked when he would be ready to return. Rey informed WWE that he could come back in June but was then told that he would have to wait another month because he was being suspended for 60 days.
Rey believes he failed the test because of something he took that caused the positive for amphetamines. WWE obviously did not buy his story as they went public with the failure last week.
Rey was scheduled to go to Japan in a few weeks to do promotional work for WWE but has been replaced by Alberto Del Rio.
wrestlechat.net/report-rey-mysterio-failed-test-back-in-february-more-info-on-his-wwe-suspension/
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Post by The Shareholder is nude on Apr 29, 2012 10:55:28 GMT -5
Health care is NOT a RIGHT.
The WWE, or ANY company for that matter is under NO legal obligation to provide it if they choose not to, unless it is part of some contracted collective bargaining agreement.
With the amount of people who will never set foot in a ring outside of an Indy fed, the WWE would not run out of workers if their entire roster walked out demanding health insurance.
People these days mix up what is a RIGHT and what is a "benefit" and I am sorry but health care is NOT a right.
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FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by FinalGwen on Apr 29, 2012 11:35:45 GMT -5
Health care is NOT a RIGHT. The WWE, or ANY company for that matter is under NO legal obligation to provide it if they choose not to, unless it is part of some contracted collective bargaining agreement. With the amount of people who will never set foot in a ring outside of an Indy fed, the WWE would not run out of workers if their entire roster walked out demanding health insurance. People these days mix up what is a RIGHT and what is a "benefit" and I am sorry but health care is NOT a right. People these days mix up what they deem to be correct in their culture/nation state with what is immutable fact. Trying to avoid the no-politics rule here, but all rights are only rights when they're accepted by the ruling class. Today in most first-world countries, we consider it a right not to be treated as slaves. That was debatable a while back, though. However, if you think that the U.N.'s current declaration on human rights is the be all and end all... Well, lookie here. "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Apr 29, 2012 11:42:23 GMT -5
Rey believes he failed the test because of something he took that caused the positive for amphetamines. Hmm...Maybe amphetamines?
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Apr 29, 2012 11:46:57 GMT -5
Rey believes he failed the test because of something he took that caused the positive for amphetamines. Hmm...Maybe amphetamines? That sounds a bit far fetched, I think he was taking amphetamines.
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SAJ Forth
Wade Wilson
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Post by SAJ Forth on Apr 29, 2012 12:19:30 GMT -5
So which wrestler will take Rey's injure someone with bulky knee brace workload?
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Post by Shy Guy on Apr 29, 2012 12:36:28 GMT -5
A few days ago, officials called him and asked when he would be ready to return. Rey informed WWE that he could come back in June but was then told that he would have to wait another month because he was being suspended for 60 days. i find this part to be funny, and the phone call was like: WWE: Rey, just doing an update on when you think you'll probably be able to return? Rey: I was thinking around June would be good, my knee if feeling really good these days... WWE: Yeah, we have papers here that said you failed a drug test so...we're thinking maybe July might be better? You're suspended for 60 days, so..... yeah. We'll see you in July. Fell better! *hang up before Rey can defend himself*
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Apr 29, 2012 12:55:18 GMT -5
I honestly find the amphetamines part particularly disturbing.
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Post by molson5 on Apr 29, 2012 17:17:59 GMT -5
Health care is NOT a RIGHT. The WWE, or ANY company for that matter is under NO legal obligation to provide it if they choose not to, unless it is part of some contracted collective bargaining agreement. With the amount of people who will never set foot in a ring outside of an Indy fed, the WWE would not run out of workers if their entire roster walked out demanding health insurance. People these days mix up what is a RIGHT and what is a "benefit" and I am sorry but health care is NOT a right. People these days mix up what they deem to be correct in their culture/nation state with what is immutable fact. Trying to avoid the no-politics rule here, but all rights are only rights when they're accepted by the ruling class. Today in most first-world countries, we consider it a right not to be treated as slaves. That was debatable a while back, though. However, if you think that the U.N.'s current declaration on human rights is the be all and end all... Well, lookie here. "Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control." The WWE provides more free medical care to its contracted wrestlers (and former contracted wrestlers) than 99% of American employers. But as others have said, healthcare has nothing to do with the independent contractor/employee thing, it's really about taxes.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Apr 29, 2012 17:23:41 GMT -5
Also, I think employee liability is a big reason for it. Remember Charles Austin, who was awarded $25 million when Marty Jannetty broke his neck? I have a feeling that incident was the major impetus for switching to independent contractor status. Employers are liable for negligent acts committed by employees, but there is no liability for an independent contractor, since the other party has no control over how they complete the job.
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Post by SassovsHart on Apr 29, 2012 17:44:08 GMT -5
Wrestlezone is now taking Meltzer's story from his podcast yesterday morning about the amphetamines and reporting it today as a "Wrestlezone Exclusive" that they heard from "WWE Sources".
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ronin705
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Post by ronin705 on Apr 29, 2012 17:57:39 GMT -5
So since i played a role in ignoting the whole company debate, let me try to turn the tide. Now that it seems that the drug has been publicly stated, what's everyone's opinion now??
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BigWill
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Post by BigWill on Apr 29, 2012 18:03:17 GMT -5
Wrestlezone is now taking Meltzer's story from his podcast yesterday morning about the amphetamines and reporting it today as a "Wrestlezone Exclusive" that they heard from "WWE Sources". Journalism at it's finest.
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