nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,014
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Post by nate5054 on Dec 19, 2011 3:02:38 GMT -5
Why don't they show the final vote (ie who voted for who like they do at the end of an episode) after it's read? Or do they show it and I've just missed it?
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Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Dec 19, 2011 3:31:16 GMT -5
My finale thoughts
So at what point do you think Coach lost this game? Did he ever even have the game in the bag?
I don't know that I can pinpoint an exact moment, and I suppose a better question would be "At what point did Sophie win this game?"
And my answer would be when she exposed the nature of the hidden immunity idol lie at Final Tribal, although I still contend that she's been playing a damn good "under the radar" game this season, and I do agree with Albert, believe it or not, that he and Sophie were the ones to get the ball rolling with Coach, and not the other way around - I think those two had far more influence than what we were shown, which perhaps owed to Albert's delusions tonight. That said, I don't know if they can be credited with forming the totality of the alliance although I don't remember whether it was Sophie or Coach who brought Rick into the fold - but Coach brought Brandon and the straggler Edna. So I'd say they're about even in terms of earning credit in building their alliance.
But back to the question of when Coach definitively lost what, little more than a month ago, seemed as sure a thing as Rob's win did last season. Overall, I feel what got the ball rolling against Coach's favor was in the last few tribals, when the Honor, Loyalty, Integrity mantra was overtly addressed, starting with Edna and continuing with Brandon, all the way through to Rick's elimination and the final tribal council (there was no way I could have called Rick almost being the lynchpin to Coach's defeat, calling him on his bulls*** in front of the entire jury and making him look like a world class heel). There's a thin veneer of entitlement and snobbery about Coach that grew larger as he got deeper into the game. By the time of the finale, he was all but exposed as a massive hypocrite. Hell, in the first five minutes of the episode, he called Albert to the carpet for affecting a "holier than thou" attitude. Seriously. Let that marinate for a second. COACH! Berating someone for being "holier than thou."
He's been strolling through the game like he (or at least his alliance) is God's choice to win Survivor. He acts as though he's doing all the people in his tribe a favor by assuming a paternal role that nobody asked him to fill (like that horrible Kristen Wiig character on SNL of the transatlantic former showbiz dame who, at dinner parties, insists on the company not to make her sing - when absolutely nobody was asking her to).
As it went on, Coach came off more and more as an overly smug hippie, rich in double standards. His heart breaks for Ozzy, he says, when he hears Ozzy's reasons for why he was so reluctant to trust people in this game, since he'd been burned before. And yet, his heart didn't appear to break for his own tribemate Brandon, who told a similar sob story about misplaced trust and abused loyalty – except that it was Brandon's real life in which he was backstabbed, whereas Ozzy was talking strictly about his game life. I mean, if your heart is going to break for somebody, have it break for the guy who's dealt with this s*** in his real life, and not the guy who's just being a baby because, boo-hoo, he hasn't won Survivor and dammit it's not fair because I'm one of the best!
(And on that note, somehow Ozzy recently received an induction into the inaugural and semi-official, insofar as Probst and other people tied to the show are on the committee, Survivor Hall of Fame Class of 2011. It just seems so random that he's among only three people to get into the first ever HoF class, but hey, half of the vote is fan voting, and he's $100,000 richer thanks to them, after tonight. So I guess he has reason to be smug - although I really enjoyed his motivational speeches about nature tonight. That's the most passionate I've seen him about anything not related to Amanda Kimmel
Ultimately, I feel this was the right result, at the end of the night. I did like how Cochran, as he goes to vote, lampshades the "Bitter jury" trope that has cost so many deserving players the million dollars, in his campaign for Coach. I hope Cochran gets another shot at this (at least, as opposed to bringing back the two Hantzes, which is a bulls*** suggestion, Jeff, and is getting me thinking that your becoming a producer on this show is why all these lousy choices in recent seasons have been happening).
Final finale results:
-Cannot WAIT for Survivor: One World. No Redemption Island, no returning castaways, and everybody living on the SAME beach/island. It's one shade away from my friend's old suggestion of a season where it's an individual game from the start (which wouldn't work, of course, since alliances would create artificial tribes, in a sense). Hopefully, this means the return of reward challenges, a final two, and maybe even no hidden immunity idols. I mean, they stopped meaning anything to the game a while ago. And Coach didn't even PLAY his (another bit that the jury could read as needless arrogance). Very optimistic about this season.
-That was really dick of Probst to make Cochran, for a brief second, think he'd won the Sprint Player of the Season award. Poor form, Jeff. Poor form.
-Man, did I feel bad for Brandon at the reunion. Getting shunned by his family all because he wasn't as ruthless as his uncle Russell? Poor kid. What the hell is in that family's blood? That said, my sympathy for him is somewhat offset by that redneck mohawk. So let's just call it a wash.
-Lastly, Most dramatic clean-up at the reunion? I'm going with Sophie. Maybe it's the shine of a million dollars, but girlfriend looked infinitely, unrelentingly bangable.
See you next season, guys!
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
Posts: 7,014
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Post by nate5054 on Dec 19, 2011 3:55:03 GMT -5
Russell totally looks like one of those cartoon villains from the 30s. All he's missing is a giant cigar hanging out of his mouth.
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Post by Shy Guy on Dec 19, 2011 9:52:58 GMT -5
jeff mentioned it briefly at the reunion, but is ozzy a member of the 100-days on survivor club?
and if yes, does that make him member 4, joining amanda, parvati, and boston rob?
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Post by MGH on Dec 19, 2011 10:46:32 GMT -5
I just finished the finale (haven't watched the reunion yet) but I just wanted to say that I'm thrilled Sophie won. This entire season I was pulling for Coach and at the end I would have still been good with him winning, but I was talking with Roxie on here yesterday and realized I had started shifting towards Sophie over the last couple of episodes. Especially throughout the finale. By the end I would have been OK with it, but disappointed if she had lost to Coach.
I feel like she got the under the radar game right. She wasn't floating through the game doing nothing. She wasn't a coat tail rider whose presence in the game held no consequence. I think she played a strong game. Is she as good as Sandra, Rob, Earl, Yul, and winners like that? No, I can't say that. But as far as playing strong enough to deserve a win without making the mistakes to lose it? Great job.
I feel like Coach lost the game at the same time Sophie started winning it. Coach really had done a great job all season up until the last few boots at not stabbing people in the back who were counting on him and he had given his word to. Cochran and Edna made their deals with him and he honored them. But when he stabbed Brandon in the back and hid it under the guise of religion, then voted out Rick when he told him to his face not five minutes earlier that he wouldn't? I knew his game was falling apart then. Rob came close to making that same mistake last season, but aside from Grant he pulled himself back and stopped the bleeding before he made it worse. Coach kept digging himself a bigger and bigger hole with Ozzy and by then it was snowballing.
Meanwhile, Sophie started showing a more vulnerable side of herself (BS or not, whatever your opinion on it is) and she had an amazing final tribal. Not an all timer, but within the context of this season she killed it. She outed Coach for lying about the idol, she busted Albert, and she slyly took credit for the alliance's game which I think was smart. I called her winning in the Tribal Rick went home when she broke down. People always want to read the edit, well that edit was a dead give away. The producers kept showing the jury looking empathetic, and Dawn crying, and then I figured she had this won. That was a neat little bit of foreshadowing by the show.
So yeah, I'm very happy Sophie won. I'm glad Coach got close to winning, because he honestly deserved it for the 80% of a great game he played. Edna gets love for being the latest in a growing line of jurors to be like, "you guys got fooled, stop being bitter asses.". Not the best season ever, but a solid one and it netted a good ending so all in all, I'm pleased. Now, to watch Russell make an even bigger ass out of himself (what else is new) at this reunion.
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 12:08:24 GMT -5
A pretty good reunion show, except when they treated Ozzy like he was Jesus for those ten minutes. That was rather nauseating. That was pure torture.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
When Toronto sports teams lose, Alison Brie is sad
Posts: 11,090
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Dec 19, 2011 12:57:31 GMT -5
The arrogance of both Coach and Ozzy by the end of the game was overwhelming and it certainly cost Coach. If you wanna pinpoint exactly where the tide turned against Coach, I say look no further than to when, for absolutely no good reason, he approached Ozzy about an alliance at Redemption.
What was the purpose of that? There was no need to go that extra mile in politicking when the only probable outcome was that he was going to piss off a jury member and that's exactly what happened.
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 13:09:40 GMT -5
The arrogance of both Coach and Ozzy by the end of the game was overwhelming and it certainly cost Coach. If you wanna pinpoint exactly where the tide turned against Coach, I say look no further than to when, for absolutely no good reason, he approached Ozzy about an alliance at Redemption. What was the purpose of that? There was no need to go that extra mile in politicking when the only probable outcome was that he was going to piss off a jury member and that's exactly what happened. I was always torn on what the thought process was there. Part of me thought "hey, maybe he's being smart and hedging his bets should Ozzy come back and go on to win all the immunities. He wants to give Ozzy a reason to keep him around." But then he'd have his confessionals and it wouldn't sound like that was the motivation. I think Coach got a little overwhelmed with keeping all the balls he was juggling in the air towards the end there. I'm not saying he didn't make his own bed, because he did, but I don't think the motivations were as heinous as I hear some people talk about it/him. I don't know, maybe this is just me, but there's a vast difference in Ozzy's arrogance and Coach's. Don't get me wrong, I think they both have arrogance but I think Coach's comes from a place of insecurity and bravado whereas Ozzy just always seems so tickled with himself.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 19, 2011 13:57:59 GMT -5
I can respect Sophie winning. I think she will do good things with the money and even though she didn't show as much poise as I think she is creditted for she also didn't self destruct nearly as bad the other two.
Albert is a huge disappointment. He seemed to always be playing toward the end game and the closer he got to it the worse he got. Sophie totally melted him down and he never recovered. At that point he should have buddied up to cowboy and gotten rid of Sophie. I actually think Sophie would have shown Albert more respect from the jury booth than anyone there. A jury which completely broke him down. All his attempts at jury pandering went up in smoke when he refused to answer them on there level. He let Sophie take the credit for the same things he took the blame for. Hell the immunity idol scheme Sophie was just the person who they told, but she got credit for the scheme while Coach and Albert looked like fools. And they let it go that way.
Coach absolutely melted down worse than anyone I have ever seen. After the Cochran flip everyone at Ponderosa was ready to hand the game to Coach. The final jury interviews show just how bad Coach lost the game more than Sophie won. He overplayed when he did play and tried not to play when he should have been stepping up. He was the exact opposite of Rob was. All the jury wanted was for Coach to stand behind his actions. Instead he just puts his head in his hands and tells them he sucks at strategy. They hated him for everything else but begrudgingly respected his strategy because it got him where they weren't and he completely discounted that aspect of his game in some foolish effort to salvage his perception of himself. He wanted to portray himself as the player Brandon went out of the game as but at the same time he couldn't point to any point in the game where he put anything on the line like Brandon did. The immunity idol could have been so much for him instead it was another nail in his coffin. He COULD have given to Albert at the end if he didn't want to use it himself and give some speech about truly believing Albert to be a strong player and a loyal ally. He SHOULD have played it himself and not looked like an overconfident douche. If wasn't going to play it he should have commented on why instead of just sitting there smirking.
I was also very disappointed in the jury. I was expecting a Russel type roasting. Instead they went very easy on them with the exception of Rick and Brandon on Albert. I think it's because they wanted Albert to win but he just didn't do anything to deserve a single vote. There were no hard questions. Nobodies feet got held to the fire. Edna and Cochran I know are favorites with fans but they proved why they were on the jury and shouldn't be brought back. They are losers. I'm not saying that in a mean way, like to make fun of them, I mean they play to lose. They play the game to let other people win. They just passively accepted there fates were sealed and didn't ask why the people on the final three were there and not them. I just can't understand people accepting that someone else is inherently better without wondering what makes them better. I understand recognizing when you have been bested but they didn't even challenge that notion at the end. Everyone else on that jury was envisioning themselves up there and how and what happened that made that not happen. Was Sophie really that much better than you Cochran? Because you just let her tell everyone she was without so much as challenging her.
As for Sophie, yes I said I am ok with her winning. That being said, the post results Sophie praise is a bit over the top. She is not in Sandra's league at all. She wouldn't have captured a single vote had Ozzy won one more immunity. No matter who else she sat beside. Coach would have still gotten a vote or two probably. She is a more charismatic and better at challenges version of Natalie from Samoa. She was lucky enough to get on a successful and lucky alliance with two people who managed to destroy their reputations with a jury. I think her meltdown and Probst pushing to get her voted off then made the jury soft on her. Ozzy reaffirmed his belief she was a brat and moved on to hold Coach to the test he failed. She didn't have to own up to anything she just had to maintain and let everyone else fail. Whitney called her out but then just moved on. She wasn't given the chance to choke like the other two were, which probably wouldn't have happened. Still it would have been nice to see her held to a higher standard before being handed the million. Natalie at least had to answer some questions. The only notable thing she did at this jury was reveal the idol scam, which was big. However, it's also a summation of the entire finale in one small moment. Albert laid the groundwork by finding the clue. Coach did the legwork by finding the idol. Sophie was let in on it to gain loyalty and she got to look good by revealing it while the other two looked like fools.
I wish they would have played up the redemption aspect of the game more. Not just in the twist, but as a theme. Cochran got redemption(or did he?) by betraying those who hurt his feelings. Ozzy got redemption by using the island and was one challenge away from winning. Brandon found redemption and got to go out on his terms. Savaii got redemption when Ozzy beat Cochran. Coach came looking for redemption and failed.
I know everyone would have been pissed if Ozzy would have won but I think it would have been the best result and the one I was hoping for. He dominated the challenges and almost made it to the end using that twist. He took the opposite path of Coach. He started out an aloof dick and became more humble and respectful of the game and other people. The day after they voted out Elyse his game got better and better. Ironically, I suppose that is also the day every other Savaii lost. You can't make an argument that Coach or Sophie or Albert played a better game then Ozzy when there only social connections at the end were each other. It's a social game. They did a remarkable job of burning every bridge the came to. Even with forgiving people like Brandon. Edna was rooting for Ozzy and she was Coach's biggest fan.
Other notes -Please save all-star players for all star seasons and quit mixing them with new players. It's too hard for new players to breakout standing in such big shadows.
-Another thing they hinted at is fan loved should not make someone an all-star. Cochran is a student of the game, sure but totally out of his element out in the actual game. Why does he have to play to be brought back. I mean nobody expects Gus Johnson to suit up and go against the pro's. He is still respected as a student of his game. I have said before Survivor should have all-star commentators. Nobody wants to see Russel play again and he is never making it to a merge unless he is given a tribe of illiterates without tv's or computers but he would make for a fun one off appearance to be color for Probst play by play during a challenge. Cochran would be perfect for that too or questioning a tribal council.
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 14:07:19 GMT -5
I love Sophie, but no one is in Sandra's league. No one. Only Boston Rob comes close and if it comes down to it, Sandra wins every time.
But I'm still gonna disagree on Ozzy winning being the best outcome. I'll stand by this until the day I die - Survivor is a social and strategic game first and a physical game last. Redemption Island goes against the heart and point of the entire game. Combine that with someone like Ozzy, who has consistently shown weaknesses in the two main aspects of the game, winning, and you've got the complete opposite of what a Survivor winner should *ever* be, as far as I'm concerned.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Dec 19, 2011 14:16:45 GMT -5
I love Sophie, but no one is in Sandra's league. No one. Only Boston Rob comes close and if it comes down to it, Sandra wins every time. gotta diasgree there and I like Sandra too. Yes she's won twice, but in my opinion there have been better games played by winners. (Rob, Tom, Yul, even Parvati and Todd) Maybe I'm just a fan of the "head honchos" who are always in the drivers seat. I can't knock Sandra's game because it worked twice, but I enjoy people who worked for themselves, and not just be at the right place, right time
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 14:18:05 GMT -5
I love Sophie, but no one is in Sandra's league. No one. Only Boston Rob comes close and if it comes down to it, Sandra wins every time. gotta diasgree there and I like Sandra too. Yes she's won twice, but in my opinion there have been better games played by winners. (Rob, Tom, Yul, even Parvati and Todd) Maybe I'm just a fan of the "head honchos" who are always in the drivers seat. I can't knock Sandra's game because it worked twice, but I enjoy people who worked for themselves, and not just be at the right place, right time She put herself in the right place at the right time. No one did that but her. Doing it twice proves it's her and not luck or someone else's work. But you and I totally don't see eye to eye on this anyhow, so there's no real point to the conversation.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 19, 2011 14:31:09 GMT -5
I love Sophie, but no one is in Sandra's league. No one. Only Boston Rob comes close and if it comes down to it, Sandra wins every time. But I'm still gonna disagree on Ozzy winning being the best outcome. I'll stand by this until the day I die - Survivor is a social and strategic game first and a physical game last. Redemption Island goes against the heart and point of the entire game. Combine that with someone like Ozzy, who has consistently shown weaknesses in the two main aspects of the game, winning, and you've got the complete opposite of what a Survivor winner should *ever* be, as far as I'm concerned. Survivor is an ever evolving game. The first season wasn't so much about the social aspect and the strategic aspect was a lot different. It was just that one player played a strategic and socially manipulative game and every player since then has had to either play that game or play wary of it. In this evolution of the game you had to plan for RI. Rob had never seen it but planned well for it. These guys all had the chance to see it unfold once. Whether you like it or not that's the game they are playing. It's like people complaining about bitter juries. You know it's an aspect of the game if it costs someone that's there fault. I'm not saying Ozzy is a great strategist. Eliminating himself to get rid of Christine is the stupidest successful move ever. Socially though his game improved while everyone else in the final four got worse. Look at Ozzy from after his meltdown after Elyse's elimination and look at Coach from the point Cochran flipped. Ozzy reconciled with his tribe. He held no grudge against Jim. He reconciled with Cochran, Coach got smugger and stupider. I don't think Ozzy is a winner on the calibre of Rob or even JT who could dominate challenges and still keep his crap together. However I would be more happy with someone winning the jury votes as opposed to someone being the least of the losers. Sophie was the least hated. She wasn't liked so its not like her social game is really all that impressive, but she won because that's the way the game unfolded. If she lost the last challenge to Ozzy she gets no votes. Her strategy wasn't much more than Natalie on Samoa than Sandra. She had a good alliance of idiots and didn't rock the boat. Sandra may have prostituted her vote but her votes at least changed outcomes. After the Savaii were gone you could replace Sophie with anyone who got voted out and the outcomes would still have been as predictable. They voted out whomever Coach ok'd.
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 14:36:37 GMT -5
I love Sophie, but no one is in Sandra's league. No one. Only Boston Rob comes close and if it comes down to it, Sandra wins every time. But I'm still gonna disagree on Ozzy winning being the best outcome. I'll stand by this until the day I die - Survivor is a social and strategic game first and a physical game last. Redemption Island goes against the heart and point of the entire game. Combine that with someone like Ozzy, who has consistently shown weaknesses in the two main aspects of the game, winning, and you've got the complete opposite of what a Survivor winner should *ever* be, as far as I'm concerned. Survivor is an ever evolving game. The first season wasn't so much about the social aspect and the strategic aspect was a lot different. It was just that one player played a strategic and socially manipulative game and every player since then has had to either play that game or play wary of it. In this evolution of the game you had to plan for RI. Rob had never seen it but planned well for it. These guys all had the chance to see it unfold once. Whether you like it or not that's the game they are playing. It's like people complaining about bitter juries. You know it's an aspect of the game if it costs someone that's there fault. I'm not saying Ozzy is a great strategist. Eliminating himself to get rid of Christine is the stupidest successful move ever. Socially though his game improved while everyone else in the final four got worse. Look at Ozzy from after his meltdown after Elyse's elimination and look at Coach from the point Cochran flipped. Ozzy reconciled with his tribe. He held no grudge against Jim. He reconciled with Cochran, Coach got smugger and stupider. I don't think Ozzy is a winner on the calibre of Rob or even JT who could dominate challenges and still keep his crap together. However I would be more happy with someone winning the jury votes as opposed to someone being the least of the losers. Sophie was the least hated. She wasn't liked so its not like her social game is really all that impressive, but she won because that's the way the game unfolded. If she lost the last challenge to Ozzy she gets no votes. Her strategy wasn't much more than Natalie on Samoa than Sandra. She had a good alliance of idiots and didn't rock the boat. Sandra may have prostituted her vote but her votes at least changed outcomes. After the Savaii were gone you could replace Sophie with anyone who got voted out and the outcomes would still have been as predictable. They voted out whomever Coach ok'd. Basically, you wanted Ozzy to win. I'm not being rude, just bringing it down to brass tacks. Survivor doesn't evolve, it adds twists - exile island, hidden immunity idols, final 3 instead of final 2 - but its core, its heart, is the same game. Redemption Island island is just a twist that completely and totally went against the basic structure of the game. It didn't evolve the game, it f***ed with it. Ozzy or anyone else who had come back from RI has no place winning whatsoever because they failed at the basic premise of the game - not getting voted out. Ozzy not only got voted out once, he got voted out three times. No one who gets voted out three times in a single game is worthy of winning a game where the whole point is to dodge getting voted out.
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Post by Allison Reynolds on Dec 19, 2011 14:56:50 GMT -5
I was totally not paying attention to this season. But Sophie won?
Hahaha, I didn't like her as much during the season, but pregame she was one of my choices to win. So yay? =P
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 19, 2011 15:07:26 GMT -5
Of the final 4 I did want Ozzy to win. As did every member of the jury at that time except Cochran who was on the fence. That says a lot about the remaining players strategic social game.
I still maintain the game evolves, through twists but also through the players. Christine tried to Russel this game and ended up making Coach's voting block solid. Russel played a game that took him to the final three twice the third time he didn't make the merge because he didn't evolve his game but the players evolved to fit his find HII and two girls strategy.
Ozzy did get voted out three times but look deeper into that. The first of those eliminations was a strategic one that he volunteered for. He wasn't voted out by his tribe for any reason indicative of his game play. Was it stupid? IMO yes. Did it work. Yes. Just the way he thought it would. He used the twist as stupid as it is to his advantage. I mean its more strategy then anyone of the final three would take credit for.
I just hate seeing people say someone wasn't deserving. I don't think Sophie is a great player but she is deserving. Had Ozzy made it to the end, even if it isn't the way you liked you'd have to give him credit for dominating in the places he needed to and not making the mistakes the other three did. The entire game is a balance of physicality, wits, and manipulation. RI isn't a surprise twist. They had all season to prepare for it. In fact Ozzy did prepare and successfully gamed the system to eliminate Christine. Upolu had no backup plan besides pray that Ozzy fails. They did nothing to sway any Savaii who were not all that in love with Ozzy up until the Cochran flip. They then managed to flip every single one of their former tribemates and allies into the Ozzy fan club. Ozzy could capitalize where they failed.
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 15:13:25 GMT -5
Of the final 4 I did want Ozzy to win. As did every member of the jury at that time except Cochran who was on the fence. That says a lot about the remaining players strategic social game. I still maintain the game evolves, through twists but also through the players. Christine tried to Russel this game and ended up making Coach's voting block solid. Russel played a game that took him to the final three twice the third time he didn't make the merge because he didn't evolve his game but the players evolved to fit his find HII and two girls strategy. Ozzy did get voted out three times but look deeper into that. The first of those eliminations was a strategic one that he volunteered for. He wasn't voted out by his tribe for any reason indicative of his game play. Was it stupid? IMO yes. Did it work. Yes. Just the way he thought it would. He used the twist as stupid as it is to his advantage. I mean its more strategy then anyone of the final three would take credit for. I just hate seeing people say someone wasn't deserving. I don't think Sophie is a great player but she is deserving. Had Ozzy made it to the end, even if it isn't the way you liked you'd have to give him credit for dominating in the places he needed to and not making the mistakes the other three did. The entire game is a balance of physicality, wits, and manipulation. RI isn't a surprise twist. They had all season to prepare for it. In fact Ozzy did prepare and successfully gamed the system to eliminate Christine. Upolu had no backup plan besides pray that Ozzy fails. They did nothing to sway any Savaii who were not all that in love with Ozzy up until the Cochran flip. They then managed to flip every single one of their former tribemates and allies into the Ozzy fan club. Ozzy could capitalize where they failed. I didn't say twists were surprises, just twists to the basic structure of the game, which I maintain my stance on what it is. As far as deserving goes - RI is where my beef lies, not a person in particular. It could have been anyone coming back, not Ozzy specifically (though he certainly has traits that don't help his case, IMO) and I don't see that as a proper winner. RI is a horrid idea that screws with the whole point of the game. I'll never change my mind on that. Not ever. We could go around in circles all day but it's easier for me to say I don't agree with your viewpoint on what kind of game Survivor is or has ever been and I don't agree with your assessment of Ozzy in particular. It's cool, no harm no foul, I just don't agree with you whatsoever.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Dec 19, 2011 17:46:05 GMT -5
I totally do get what your saying and I understand the lack of Ozzy fandom. I wasn't much of a fan but I do give him credit for the game he played.
And don't get me wrong either I hate RI the way they use it. I hope if it's ever brought back it is tweaked severely. I just don't get how it's not what Survivor is. If someone plays Thriller on accordian it might suck but its still Thriller. My opinion can't change that. The twists of RI have totally sucked but that's the game those guys signed on to play. If it was sprung on them in the middle of the game I could see them being pissed but they knew the entire time how things could go. That's totally irrelevant though I guess since it didn't occur though so, cheers to Sophie I guess.
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Post by King Boo on Dec 19, 2011 18:16:34 GMT -5
I totally do get what your saying and I understand the lack of Ozzy fandom. I wasn't much of a fan but I do give him credit for the game he played. And don't get me wrong either I hate RI the way they use it. I hope if it's ever brought back it is tweaked severely. I just don't get how it's not what Survivor is. If someone plays Thriller on accordian it might suck but its still Thriller. My opinion can't change that. The twists of RI have totally sucked but that's the game those guys signed on to play. If it was sprung on them in the middle of the game I could see them being pissed but they knew the entire time how things could go. That's totally irrelevant though I guess since it didn't occur though so, cheers to Sophie I guess. Cool. We'll shake on it But I will say RI goes against the grain of the foundation of the game because it allows someone, like Ozzy did or Matt Elrod before him, to not have to work at anything for the duration they're "in the game." They don't have to strategize, they don't have to make anyone angry and they don't have to make enemies. Basically, they don't have to play. That will always be a bone of contention with me because I don't think that's right at all. Just because it's in the game doesn't mean it doesn't completely go against everything the game is actually about. I'm glad it's gone.
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Post by BlackHoleMark on Dec 20, 2011 0:17:36 GMT -5
To me, the worst season I can remember in quite a while. A poor man's version of last season.
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