|
Post by garybusey on Dec 24, 2011 10:04:50 GMT -5
10%? Hang on, 99% of people are on the internet. What do you mean? Internet darling? What do you mean? The language the IWC and the wrestling insiders or whatever you want to call them, use is just aggrevating. Everyone who watches on monday night has looked up WWE online whether its twitter, wrestling sites, forums, WWE.com or whatever.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Dec 24, 2011 10:10:40 GMT -5
The difference is between usage. It's true that wrestling fans are pretty much all capable of accessing the internet, but not all subscribe to newsletters or go sign up on forums and discuss wrestling in their free time. That tends to be the difference between the "10%" and the "90%" It's like the fans of Lost who went on forums and overanalyzed every frame and come up with fan theories and such and those who were just fans of the show and happened to be on the internet. There is a different level of devotion between fans, and when companies and fans separate the IWC from other fans, they're separating the former group from the latter.
That said, 10% is probably far too low a number anymore.
|
|
|
Post by garybusey on Dec 24, 2011 10:18:06 GMT -5
I'm not accepting that. I see what your trying to say but what you are describing are "superfans" so to speak, no internet fans because most of the audience are somehow using the internet for wrestling needs. WWE has been trending worldwide which also counts as the internet.
|
|
r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,465
|
Post by r. on Dec 24, 2011 10:30:17 GMT -5
The IWC is an imaginary fall guy.
The IWC is the minority because even if they all like a particular wrestler,It doesn't matter as they are a small group of elitists.
The IWC is the majority when a relative nobody,underdog,or any wrestler who was previously not being used much sudden gets a push,It is then proclaimed "Oh they are just trying to please the IWC".
The reality is it is both those things and neither of those things,If any fan at all has used the Internet to discuss their love for say Dolph Ziggler they are now apart of the I.W.C(Internet Wresting Community).
Every single wrestler has some fans on the Internet and to assume that it is this mythical super group,Unhappy with anything that doesn't resemble the attitude era,Controlling WWE's booking from the shadows all while ruining everyone Else's fun time with their unmatched super smarkiness is just ridiculous.
[/rant]
|
|
|
Post by garybusey on Dec 24, 2011 10:32:31 GMT -5
The IWC is an imaginary fall guy. The IWC is the minority because even if they all like a particular wrestler,It doesn't matter as they are a small group of elitists. The IWC is the majority when a relative nobody,underdog,or any wrestler who was previously not being used much sudden gets a push,It is then proclaimed "Oh they are just trying to please the IWC". The reality is it is both those things and neither of those things,If any fan at all has used the Internet to discuss their love for say Dolph Ziggler they are now apart of the I.W.C(Internet Wresting Community). Every single wrestler has some fans on the Internet and to assume that it is this mythical super group,Unhappy with anything that doesn't resemble the attitude era,Controlling WWE's booking from the shadows all while ruining everyone Else's fun time with their unmatched super smarkiness is just ridiculous. [/rant] You win everything.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Dec 24, 2011 10:35:24 GMT -5
I'm not accepting that. I see what your trying to say but what you are describing are "superfans" so to speak, no internet fans because most of the audience are somehow using the internet for wrestling needs. WWE has been trending worldwide which also counts as the internet. The problem is that the stereotypical IWC used to represent the superfans, but as you said, most fans have the internet now. So it's not that the segment they are talking about doesn't exist, it's that the term used to describe them is outdated. Now, this idea that there's some big hivemind who only cheers CM Punk and Daniel Bryan and Puro stars and hates Cena is completely and totally mythical. That never existed.
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Dec 24, 2011 10:55:37 GMT -5
The IWC is an imaginary fall guy. The IWC is the minority because even if they all like a particular wrestler,It doesn't matter as they are a small group of elitists. The IWC is the majority when a relative nobody,underdog,or any wrestler who was previously not being used much sudden gets a push,It is then proclaimed "Oh they are just trying to please the IWC". The reality is it is both those things and neither of those things,If any fan at all has used the Internet to discuss their love for say Dolph Ziggler they are now apart of the I.W.C(Internet Wresting Community). Every single wrestler has some fans on the Internet and to assume that it is this mythical super group,Unhappy with anything that doesn't resemble the attitude era,Controlling WWE's booking from the shadows all while ruining everyone Else's fun time with their unmatched super smarkiness is just ridiculous. [/rant] For me the IWC are people who only talk about who should be pushed, who shouldn't be pushed are generally unhappy with what' happening. Not that it's always the same people but there's this general tendency to be quiet when you like what's happening and post heavily when you feel something's wrong.
|
|
r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,465
|
Post by r. on Dec 24, 2011 11:42:12 GMT -5
The IWC is an imaginary fall guy. The IWC is the minority because even if they all like a particular wrestler,It doesn't matter as they are a small group of elitists. The IWC is the majority when a relative nobody,underdog,or any wrestler who was previously not being used much sudden gets a push,It is then proclaimed "Oh they are just trying to please the IWC". The reality is it is both those things and neither of those things,If any fan at all has used the Internet to discuss their love for say Dolph Ziggler they are now apart of the I.W.C(Internet Wresting Community). Every single wrestler has some fans on the Internet and to assume that it is this mythical super group,Unhappy with anything that doesn't resemble the attitude era,Controlling WWE's booking from the shadows all while ruining everyone Else's fun time with their unmatched super smarkiness is just ridiculous. [/rant] For me the IWC are people who only talk about who should be pushed, who shouldn't be pushed are generally unhappy with what' happening. Not that it's always the same people but there's this general tendency to be quiet when you like what's happening and post heavily when you feel something's wrong. That would be a jaded detractor and not the "IWC" again the terms get misued all the time: See people that disagree with my opinions: Must be IWC smarks See people starting a thread which goes against my personal favorite wrestler: Must be those wwe hating IWC folks See people rooting for a guy I don't like: must be those indy loving IWC people And countless other examples,IWC is a convienant fall guy to use to justify making Troll,Flame baiting or in general extereme declarations all under the guise of "Hey I'm just trying to seperate myself from the rest of those IWC sheep".
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Dec 24, 2011 11:43:25 GMT -5
It all goes in the label, "IWC" made sense in the mid-90s when only a small portion of the fans were reading about wrestling on the internet, but the definition has just obviously evolved now. And as often happens in language, the term itself isn't accurate anymore, but we still use it (for example, we still talk about "dialing" phone numbers).....the definition has changed, it's still the very small portion of superfans who do have very strong opinions, and who are, on the average, very cynical and critical. I think the debate is how much the WWE should care about these fans - do they buy PPVs, do they buy tickets, do they buy t-shirts, relative to the "average" fan (who also of course, uses the internet and even posts on message boards).
|
|
mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
|
Post by mrjl on Dec 24, 2011 12:00:28 GMT -5
For me the IWC are people who only talk about who should be pushed, who shouldn't be pushed are generally unhappy with what' happening. Not that it's always the same people but there's this general tendency to be quiet when you like what's happening and post heavily when you feel something's wrong. That would be a jaded detractor and not the "IWC" again the terms get misued all the time: See people that disagree with my opinions: Must be IWC smarks See people starting a thread which goes against my personal favorite wrestler: Must be those wwe hating IWC folks See people rooting for a guy I don't like: must be those indy loving IWC people And countless other examples,IWC is a convienant fall guy to use to justify making Troll,Flame baiting or in general extereme declarations all under the guise of "Hey I'm just trying to seperate myself from the rest of those IWC sheep". except I'm not talking about an individual. I'm talking about in groups. A lot of people talk less when they see something they like, and the people who disagree with them start getting loud. I wish more people on line would heap some praise when they're ahppy, it would do a lot to get rid of the idea that everyone on the net is negative and no one is ever happy
|
|
|
Post by AztecaDragon on Dec 24, 2011 12:26:08 GMT -5
except I'm not talking about an individual. I'm talking about in groups. A lot of people talk less when they see something they like, and the people who disagree with them start getting loud. I wish more people on line would heap some praise when they're ahppy, it would do a lot to get rid of the idea that everyone on the net is negative and no one is ever happy ...that's not how stereotypes work. People could do that, but then they'd just be written off as the exception to the rule. It'll take busloads of people many years to shake off that perception. Besides, that's more of a problem for the people stereotyping anyway. It's not like I care what those people think of me.
|
|
r.
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Bye
Posts: 16,465
|
Post by r. on Dec 24, 2011 12:26:08 GMT -5
That would be a jaded detractor and not the "IWC" again the terms get misued all the time: See people that disagree with my opinions: Must be IWC smarks See people starting a thread which goes against my personal favorite wrestler: Must be those wwe hating IWC folks See people rooting for a guy I don't like: must be those indy loving IWC people And countless other examples,IWC is a convienant fall guy to use to justify making Troll,Flame baiting or in general extereme declarations all under the guise of "Hey I'm just trying to seperate myself from the rest of those IWC sheep". except I'm not talking about an individual. I'm talking about in groups. A lot of people talk less when they see something they like, and the people who disagree with them start getting loud. I wish more people on line would heap some praise when they're ahppy, it would do a lot to get rid of the idea that everyone on the net is negative and no one is ever happy I get what you mean,I think people just can't grasp the idea there may be other groups of people who have the opposite opinion as they do,Rather then discuss why they have chossen their posistion they instead scream out "You IWC smarks hate everyone,You're never happy!" That being said,A lot of what I see is one guy will make a tatement "Dolph Ziggler's hair is silly" a few people will agree with him perhaps and someone will say something along the lines of "Looks like the IWC are hair experts now ".
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Dec 24, 2011 14:24:02 GMT -5
I go to live shows fairly frequently -- at least a couple per year, sometimes four or five -- and I can tell you the people who are shelling out money to go to shows and buy merch are not, for the most part, members of the IWC. They are the 90 or 95 percent who support the product financially without actually caring about the behind-the-scenes part, the how-WWE-should-have-booked-it part, etc., etc.
You wouldn't believe the things I overhear that people take as gospel truth about different wrestlers -- people in the stands, people in the concourse or at the merch tables or at concession stands. They go to a SD house show and think Cena is going to be there. They don't know who the f*** Daniel Bryan was in the indies, and pretty much (as of a few months ago) who he is now. Etc., etc.
So even though I'm sure the vast majority of them have the internet, even though they can afford to buy tickets to see PPVs, TV tapings and house shows (and often drive a couple of hours to attend), they for the most part don't know all these internet things the OP seems to assume they know.
Sure, a few of them do, but not even 10 percent in my experience.
As for whether there's a groupthink element to the IWC, sure there are varied opinions, but in general I think it's hard to argue against it. For instance:
* Most people in the IWC like Punk more than Cena. But in the larger WWE "universe," Cena is more popular. You can measure this by signs at shows, by merch, by TV ratings, by PPV sales.
* I was at a friend's house for the Summerslam PPV where Bryan made his return. Me and the guy who hosted the party, which had half a dozen "fans" who definitely aren't IWC members, marked and jumped up and down. The others all said, "Who is that???" This board, and others like it, melted down and thought it was the greatest thing ever -- pages and pages of threads and threads. I'd say the majority of WWE fans did not react the same way.
So while it may not be something that can be 100 percent clearly identified and defined, it definitely exists.
And to think that all WWE fans care about this stuff is like thinking that because I watch Law & Order -- the original, the spinoffs, the UK version, the new shows and the reruns, ALL of it (and I do) -- that I spend time on the internet learning intricate back stories and details and discussion Law & Order history and plot lines. I don't. But I'm willing to bet that there are a lot of people who do on some forums somewhere out in cyberspace. Wrestling, on the other hand, I do (obviously) spend time discussing on forums, with texts to friends, etc.
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,104
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 24, 2011 14:53:31 GMT -5
The IWC is an imaginary fall guy. The IWC is the minority because even if they all like a particular wrestler,It doesn't matter as they are a small group of elitists. The IWC is the majority when a relative nobody,underdog,or any wrestler who was previously not being used much sudden gets a push,It is then proclaimed "Oh they are just trying to please the IWC". The reality is it is both those things and neither of those things,If any fan at all has used the Internet to discuss their love for say Dolph Ziggler they are now apart of the I.W.C(Internet Wresting Community). Every single wrestler has some fans on the Internet and to assume that it is this mythical super group,Unhappy with anything that doesn't resemble the attitude era,Controlling WWE's booking from the shadows all while ruining everyone Else's fun time with their unmatched super smarkiness is just ridiculous. [/rant] "Community" implies "acceptance", so I'm still disagreeing.
|
|
|
Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Dec 24, 2011 15:00:21 GMT -5
Ive said this for a while.
John Cena has over a million Twitter followers. How the hell does John Cena not qualify as an "internet darling"? This isnt 2003 anymore. The internet is a HUGE part of wrestling.
|
|
|
Post by garybusey on Dec 24, 2011 15:03:01 GMT -5
Ive said this for a while. John Cena has over a million Twitter followers. How the hell does John Cena not qualify as an "internet darling"? This isnt 2003 anymore. The internet is a HUGE part of wrestling. Exactly
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 15:15:24 GMT -5
Obviously if you're being entirely literal about it then every single WWE fan who has internet access would be a part of the "internet wrestling community.'
Personally, when I hear the term IWC I think of people who are members of forums like this and analyze what goes on, on and off screen. Not your average fan who might occasionally visit wwe.com or "like" John Cena on Facebook.
Monday Night Raw has 4-5 million viewers each week. Even if you took every wrestling message board in existence and added up every single member you would only have a tiny fraction of WWE's casual audience. The average WWE fan doesn't really take any part in the wider internet wrestling community outside of maybe following their favorite wrestlers on Twitter. That's just the way I see it anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 24, 2011 16:08:25 GMT -5
I don't count fans who only partake of the WWE as members of the IWC. I would classify them as members of the WWE Universe because anything wrestling related outside of the WWE they either don't watch or don't care about.
The IWC to me is the community of fans who use the internet to discuss wrestling in general, not just one company. People who like to discuss and analyze the product and state of companies/talent, people who are fascinated by the backstage stuff and want to find out more, people who dream about being in the business and want to share/gain knowledge, people who think they're right and want to voice their opinion at the risk of coming off as an elitist, people who have crushes on wrestlers, people who want to photoshop bastita's head on things... all part of the IWC.
|
|
|
Post by moneyman20 on Dec 24, 2011 16:09:44 GMT -5
Ive said this for a while. John Cena has over a million Twitter followers. How the hell does John Cena not qualify as an "internet darling"? This isnt 2003 anymore. The internet is a HUGE part of wrestling. Exactly.
|
|
saintpat
El Dandy
Release the hounds!!!
Posts: 7,664
|
Post by saintpat on Dec 24, 2011 16:36:52 GMT -5
Maybe the IWC is the "community" of fans who watch pirated PPVs, then go to forums to discuss how horrible they think they were -- and get mad because the WWE doesn't do things the way they want and instead caters to paying customers?
|
|