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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 10, 2012 12:29:47 GMT -5
"Wrestling Matters" - when TNA first wheeled out this as catchphrase-of-the-month, a lot of people went "yea, RIGHT". But in fact there has been a shift more towards the importance of actual wrestling and storylines about the titles themselves. But overall, TNA has shifted its focus - the main storylines by and large are about wrestlers wrestling and being successful, not about them using the ring as a way to gain payback for some other (often personal) grievance. Your last point really drives it home: you don't turn on Major League Baseball and see games or divisions decided by one team coming from nowhere and airing a grievance with the defending champs. You see actual competition. That said, sometimes there are games with a little extra juice: maybe a regional rivalry (NY vs. Philly, NY vs. Boston, LA vs. San Fran, etc.), or maybe there's a given game where there's some bad blood between players, all that good stuff. Wrestling can easily have the same thing going for it: when people say "present it as a sport!", they don't mean to be boring, but to embrace that the heart of what you're watching is competition, yet that sometimes things get spiced up...that can be where the "sports entertainment" side of things comes in. THAT'S realistic. When you base everything around "guys doing whatever the can to become the champion", you ensure that you won't have many "throwaway" matches, since you're making it clear that everybody has a main goal, and that most storylines will play off of guys trying to reach it. I'd like it if they could do that for the Tag belts, as well, but given their airtime limitations I understand wanting to focus more on the World title.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Jul 10, 2012 15:05:24 GMT -5
I'm sure I am over reacting but it seems like finally they look to grow towards a future. They aren't building the shows and titles on the broken backs of has-beens going through the motions for a fraction of the pay they used to make. The people that matter are the people I identify as TNA. Thank you TNA for starting to get it right.
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Jul 11, 2012 12:28:47 GMT -5
1) Wins and losses matter. You don't get a title shot by interrupting the champion while he is giving a promo to start the show. There is a kayfabe pecking order and in order to reach that next tier you have to win matches. Aries didn't win the title overnight. He had to run through the X-Division, beat Bully Ray, beat Samoa Joe, etc. That is why I LOVED the fact that Hogan had Aries vacate the title in order to get a title shot. Aries dropping the title to Ion before beating Roode would have made Aries and Roode look bad and would have been insulting to the audience. Instead, he did not have to lose to an inferior ranked wrestler just to say he dropped the belt, and was able to move forward. Losing has to be taken seriously. Just as seriously as winning, and I think TNA is hitting a home run with that. The only exception is Roode losing in non-title matches, but as I mentioend in another post, it is hard to book a long reign for a heel champion without making the faces look bad, so a loss here or there to give the babyfaces an out for losing later is understandable. 2) Keeping it simple. I know that seems odd, but the WWE and Russo's TNA never seemed to be able to do that. How many heel/face turns have there been since Russo left? I think Angle turned face, but that's about it. Give characters a chance to breathe and grow. Let feuds develop over a period of time. Make being the world champion mean something (BFG Series). Make being the X-Division champion mean something (Destination X title shot every year). It is amazing how fluid a wrestling company can be when every feud means something. I agree wholeheartedly with the 'guy interrupts and gets a title shot' bit. That kind of schtick got old years ago, but is still being used. In fact, wrestling in general (especially WWE) reminds me of the pre-attitude days. They were stuck in a rut with a booking style that was out of date but they couldn't see it, so kept going with the same stuff that made them big a few years previously. ECW changed that, for better or worse. TNA needed to boot out the old late 90's Russo booking for the most part as it had become stale to a jaded audience who could no longer be shocked with swerves or shocked with dangerous stuff. They had to change back to a more wrestling orientated style but still with Sports entertainment segments (like the AJ Daniels thing, which I don't like much but is just an example) to get the audience back into watching wrestling. At least that trope is ripe for subversion. Let's say someone does the whole I-want-a-title-shot-so-I'm-going-to-interrupt-the-champion's-promo bit, only to be interrupted by the #1 contender. Said contender objects because he had to earn a title shot, he didn't just whine while someone else was talking, and the GM decides to book a match between the two for the title shot. The #1 contender refuses to do that because he actually had to work for this shot and there's no reason he should have to defend it against some whiner. He then reminds the interrupter that if this match gets booked, it will never happen because he'll jump him before it can start. Match gets booked anyway, and the #1 contender jumps the other guy before it can start, so there's no contest. The feud can then go wherever the hell you want: interrupter interferes in a title match, another match where the #1 contender will not lose his shot, but the other guy gets a title shot if he wins... take your pick.
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Post by Diamond Cutter Out of Nowhere! on Jul 11, 2012 15:52:29 GMT -5
I really like the concept of "Option C" or whatever Aries and Hogan called it.
The idea that the current X-Division Champ can vacate the title once a year, before Destination X, for a shot at the TNA Title is a brilliant idea to me.
It makes the X-Division title leagues more important and gives guys who may not be in the main event picture a good reason to jump up for a shot.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,036
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2012 16:15:30 GMT -5
Could do with a lot more Pope winning clean on TV but I'm enjoying the last three weeks I've watched of Impact. They do need to flesh out some of their midcard however. They give them time to wrestle, but letting them give more meat to their characters would help.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,476
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Post by dpg on Jul 11, 2012 16:32:05 GMT -5
Could do with a lot more Pope winning clean on TV but I'm enjoying the last three weeks I've watched of Impact. They do need to flesh out some of their midcard however. They give them time to wrestle, but letting them give more meat to their characters would help. I agree, the mid-card guys have been given some time to get over but I think they need more, problem is they only have two hours a week to do it in :/
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,476
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Post by dpg on Jul 11, 2012 16:42:39 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly with the 'guy interrupts and gets a title shot' bit. That kind of schtick got old years ago, but is still being used. In fact, wrestling in general (especially WWE) reminds me of the pre-attitude days. They were stuck in a rut with a booking style that was out of date but they couldn't see it, so kept going with the same stuff that made them big a few years previously. ECW changed that, for better or worse. TNA needed to boot out the old late 90's Russo booking for the most part as it had become stale to a jaded audience who could no longer be shocked with swerves or shocked with dangerous stuff. They had to change back to a more wrestling orientated style but still with Sports entertainment segments (like the AJ Daniels thing, which I don't like much but is just an example) to get the audience back into watching wrestling. At least that trope is ripe for subversion. Let's say someone does the whole I-want-a-title-shot-so-I'm-going-to-interrupt-the-champion's-promo bit, only to be interrupted by the #1 contender. Said contender objects because he had to earn a title shot, he didn't just whine while someone else was talking, and the GM decides to book a match between the two for the title shot. The #1 contender refuses to do that because he actually had to work for this shot and there's no reason he should have to defend it against some whiner. He then reminds the interrupter that if this match gets booked, it will never happen because he'll jump him before it can start. Match gets booked anyway, and the #1 contender jumps the other guy before it can start, so there's no contest. The feud can then go wherever the hell you want: interrupter interferes in a title match, another match where the #1 contender will not lose his shot, but the other guy gets a title shot if he wins... take your pick. That sounds good, I could see TNA or RoH doing that, but I doubt WWE would.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 11, 2012 18:15:57 GMT -5
Could do with a lot more Pope winning clean on TV but I'm enjoying the last three weeks I've watched of Impact. They do need to flesh out some of their midcard however. They give them time to wrestle, but letting them give more meat to their characters would help. I agree, the mid-card guys have been given some time to get over but I think they need more, problem is they only have two hours a week to do it in :/ If you think about it, though, I don't think TNA has too many midcarders right now. I guess you could say the X-Division is a midcard division, but twelve guys are in the BFG series, while Roode, Aries, and Abyss can all fit into upper card matches/main events...that's fifteen guys right there. Ok, 14, since we shouldn't count Robbie E. The X-Division can be seen as a midcard division, but we'll have to see how it's handled going forward. Devon counts as a midcarder, maybe Kaz (though his ties to AJ and Daniels elevate his status), Hernandez if he's going to be sticking around, but there really aren't many guys featured on the show who couldn't be put into a main event if needed. Given TNA's television airtime limitations, that's honestly for the best. If you're going to have a weekly show but only have a two hour time slot, you need a lot of high profile guys you can rotate using to a certain degree. TNA used to go too far with that by basically "half-pushing" guys, never fully pulling the trigger and allowing certain guys to look like megastars, but I think what's on now seems a bit more balanced. It's not the same as WWE's midcard issues; WWE DOES have a midcard, but they simply don't do anything of interest with it.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jul 11, 2012 18:31:46 GMT -5
Could do with a lot more Pope winning clean on TV but I'm enjoying the last three weeks I've watched of Impact. They do need to flesh out some of their midcard however. They give them time to wrestle, but letting them give more meat to their characters would help. I disagree, aside from the new X-Division guys (who haven't got a chance to flesh their characters out yet) I think pretty much everyone TNA has is distinctive as their own person. If I was watching Impact for the first time I don't think I'd be able to say anyone was too similar to anyone else. Whereas with WWE there are a lot of guys who (on first viewing) appear to be very similar (the generic, cookie-cutter criticism).
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,036
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2012 18:35:05 GMT -5
Could do with a lot more Pope winning clean on TV but I'm enjoying the last three weeks I've watched of Impact. They do need to flesh out some of their midcard however. They give them time to wrestle, but letting them give more meat to their characters would help. I disagree, aside from the new X-Division guys (who haven't got a chance to flesh their characters out yet) I think pretty much everyone TNA has is distinctive as their own person. If I was watching Impact for the first time I don't think I'd be able to say anyone was too similar to anyone else. Whereas with WWE there are a lot of guys who (on first viewing) appear to be very similar (the generic, cookie-cutter criticism). It's not the looking similar, it's just basic stuff as to whether the're a Heel or not at times. Like Magnus for instance. He's in the BFG series but the only thing that's clearly defined him as a Heel so far is during a match on Xplosion when he used underhanded tactics to beat the Pope. If he came out on Impact Thursday night, there isn't much reason to cheer or boo him. Giving him a minute's worth of promo or something before a match would do a lot of good.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jul 11, 2012 18:39:31 GMT -5
I disagree, aside from the new X-Division guys (who haven't got a chance to flesh their characters out yet) I think pretty much everyone TNA has is distinctive as their own person. If I was watching Impact for the first time I don't think I'd be able to say anyone was too similar to anyone else. Whereas with WWE there are a lot of guys who (on first viewing) appear to be very similar (the generic, cookie-cutter criticism). It's not the looking similar, it's just basic stuff as to whether the're a Heel or not at times. Like Magnus for instance. He's in the BFG series but the only thing that's clearly defined him as a Heel so far is during a match on Xplosion when he used underhanded tactics to beat the Pope. If he came out on Impact Thursday night, there isn't much reason to cheer or boo him. Giving him a minute's worth of promo or something before a match would do a lot of good. Yeah I suppose, but are there any other examples in addition to Magnus? Magnus also won by underhanded tactics against Styles after interference. He could definitely have used a small promo to get himself over as a heel after basically being a face team with Joe.
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dav
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,036
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Post by dav on Jul 11, 2012 18:48:50 GMT -5
It's not the looking similar, it's just basic stuff as to whether the're a Heel or not at times. Like Magnus for instance. He's in the BFG series but the only thing that's clearly defined him as a Heel so far is during a match on Xplosion when he used underhanded tactics to beat the Pope. If he came out on Impact Thursday night, there isn't much reason to cheer or boo him. Giving him a minute's worth of promo or something before a match would do a lot of good. Yeah I suppose, but are there any other examples in addition to Magnus? Magnus also won by underhanded tactics against Styles after interference. He could definitely have used a small promo to get himself over as a heel after basically being a face team with Joe. Pope's another. He's returned and hasn't been given much of anything aside from one Impact match, two if you count the battle royale. He's not been given chance to re-establish himself at all. Hernandez is another as he's floating around at the minute. Douglas Williams as well and just a few others here and there. Something like an old school promo with the screen within a screen during a match could help a fair bit. I'm not knocking on TNA here as their current situation is a lot better than WWE as they mix and match at least, but they could do a bit better with it.
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Jul 11, 2012 19:04:43 GMT -5
The fact that Hulk is not on it that much helps.Hell Brooke barely shows up.
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jul 11, 2012 19:11:17 GMT -5
Yeah I suppose, but are there any other examples in addition to Magnus? Magnus also won by underhanded tactics against Styles after interference. He could definitely have used a small promo to get himself over as a heel after basically being a face team with Joe. Pope's another. He's returned and hasn't been given much of anything aside from one Impact match, two if you count the battle royale. He's not been given chance to re-establish himself at all. Hernandez is another as he's floating around at the minute. Douglas Williams as well and just a few others here and there. Something like an old school promo with the screen within a screen during a match could help a fair bit. I'm not knocking on TNA here as their current situation is a lot better than WWE as they mix and match at least, but they could do a bit better with it. Yeah I guess I agree with you there. Hernandez and Doug have hardly been used though (wish Doug would be used more). And Pope has only just come back. Hopefully they'll build them up a bit more over the coming weeks. Magnus and Pope especially need it since they are in the BFG Series.
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