Could anything like Puder at the RR happen again?

[Burst]

I was just watching Daniel Puder getting his sternum smashed in from stiff chops and just generally getting obliterated at the 2005 Royal Rumble by Eddie, Benoit, and Bob Holly, all for putting Kurt Angle in a legit submission hold, apparently.

Yeah, for all intents and purposes Puder was an ass who needed to be brought down, but seven years later, do you think we'd ever see that sort of public retribution again?

I don't think any of the really old school-mentality hazing-type wrestlers are still around, since Benoit and Holly at least were two of the worst when it came to rookies and "respect", so I don't think it would. I really can't think of anybody on the roster anymore that would either be coerced or take it upon themselves to stiff the hell out of someone for a perceived slight like that.

I guess it's mostly because of how much roster turnover there's been, but in a way it's good that for the most part, the roster seems to have matured... at least from what we can see.

[Deleted]

The one thing that always bothered me about that is, during Angle's challenge, Angle apparently messed up one of the TE contestant's ribs. So, I don't really feel bad for Puder putting him in the submission. Obviously, Puder didn't handle it right after the fact but I don't blame him.

[B'Cup x]

in wrestling? yeah just go check out wrest of wrestling right now

in wwe? Im not certain, Im sure there is the potential for this happening again, but its kind of redundant making an assumption without there being any current reason for a wrestler to do it. This question would be much better suited had Reks/Young or anyone else low on the card had recently shot on a wrestler x

[xCompackx]

Probably not, but I wouldn't put it past a guy like Punk or Orton to attempt such a thing.

[Deleted]

Are there any of those 'backstage general' types left? Undertaker is a once-a-year guy now, Hardcore Holly was released, JBL is gone, Benoit...well you know the story there. Are there any backstage guys left involved in hazing or whatever?

[onestepplan]

Nah, I doubt it. Guys like JBL and Benoit cut their teeth in a culture that doesn't really exist anymore. They travelled all over and came through everywhere so respect was a big thing to them, but most guys who started getting into wrestling around the Attitude era and after that have a shot at the E just end up in one of the few bigger named indies or head straight down to Florida.

I suppose you might still be able to head over to Japan and get the s*** kicked out of you enough to start preaching respect to young guys coming back, but there aren't many American guys who head to Japan and then the E. The idea of the journeyman wrestler is kind of dead and that old school mentality, in the big leagues anyway, seems to be dying with it.

[Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!!]

I'm guessing if someone did something as unprofessional as Puder did nowadays they'd probably just be fired. Ken Kennedy was fired for less.

["Gentleman" AJ Powell]

If someone tried to legit hurt someone, they'd probably send out a few people who know how to actually defend themselves to stop it, like Santino, Del Rio, Maybe Punk (I'm pretty sure he trains with the Gracie family.) to take care of 'em. Doubt they'd let 'em stick around to get hazed though, probably just fire 'em.

[bestthateverdidit]

I wonder if Tensai learned a few things from those hard nosed bastards over in Japan.

[Clawley Race]

I doubt they'd send out the champion. Santino sure...but if someone is shooting in the ring...you don't want the champ out there...

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

There was precisely no upside to the Puder thing. The audience had no clue why the contestants all stopped fighting each other to focus on this guy... they basically dropped kayfabe temporarily so we could all see babyish unprofessionalism on display. It was frankly pathetic.

So, yes, given the standards the WWE has set for itself, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

[DragonMasterP]

The way I see it, Puder got the daylights chopped out of him as a way of showing him what it was like to be a serious wrestler.

[BigBadZ]

Aug 1, 2012 13:04:00 GMT -5 Clawley Race said:

I doubt they'd send out the champion. Santino sure...but if someone is shooting in the ring...you don't want the champ out there...

I do think it would be hilarious if they sent Santino to do the job. People unfamiliar with his training will just see the comedy guy beat up the tough guy on the roster. I would only like to see Santino take out a JBL/ Hardcore Holly type bully. On the flip side of that, a new Daniel Puder type guy comes in and they send out Brock Lesnar to take care of him. I'd pay PPV dollars to see this stuff lol.

[thecrusherwi]

Aug 1, 2012 13:23:54 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

There was precisely no upside to the Puder thing. The audience had no clue why the contestants all stopped fighting each other to focus on this guy... they basically dropped kayfabe temporarily so we could all see babyish unprofessionalism on display. It was frankly pathetic.

So, yes, given the standards the WWE has set for itself, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

This. I hate when stuff like this happens. It's like guys like Bob Holly always wanted to show how tough they were by taking liberties with guys. That's real tough. I could beat the shit out of a guy if it was his job to just take it. Guys like that are just insecure bullies. You didnt see guys like Undertaker or Bret Hart taking cheap shots out there cuz they're professionals who are actually good enough to get over.

[Robbymac]

Aug 1, 2012 14:12:56 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

Aug 1, 2012 13:23:54 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

There was precisely no upside to the Puder thing. The audience had no clue why the contestants all stopped fighting each other to focus on this guy... they basically dropped kayfabe temporarily so we could all see babyish unprofessionalism on display. It was frankly pathetic.

So, yes, given the standards the WWE has set for itself, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

This. I hate when stuff like this happens. It's like guys like Bob Holly always wanted to show how tough they were by taking liberties with guys. That's real tough. I could beat the s*** out of a guy if it was his job to just take it. Guys like that are just insecure bullies. You didnt see guys like Undertaker or Bret Hart taking cheap shots out there cuz they're professionals who are actually good enough to get over.

Except for that the Puder thing made sense in the context of kayfabe.

Think about who was in the ring. Benoit and Guerrero, who had a kayfabe (and real) friendship. Both were babyfaces as well. So they stopped fighting each other to turn on the sleazy heel who was entering the ring. That spot had been done in several Rumbles before.

Holly was also a no nonsense face in 2005 as well, so him joining in when he entered made sense as well.

Whether it was unprofessional is up for debate, but it certainly didn't break kayfabe.

[zeez]

Aug 1, 2012 14:11:10 GMT -5 BigBadZ said:

Aug 1, 2012 13:04:00 GMT -5 Clawley Race said:

I doubt they'd send out the champion. Santino sure...but if someone is shooting in the ring...you don't want the champ out there...

I do think it would be hilarious if they sent Santino to do the job. People unfamiliar with his training will just see the comedy guy beat up the tough guy on the roster. I would only like to see Santino take out a JBL/ Hardcore Holly type bully. On the flip side of that, a new Daniel Puder type guy comes in and they send out Brock Lesnar to take care of him. I'd pay PPV dollars to see this stuff lol.

I bet Dana White would too.

[Todd's crazy , Man.]

Aug 1, 2012 14:12:56 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

Aug 1, 2012 13:23:54 GMT -5 carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) said:

There was precisely no upside to the Puder thing. The audience had no clue why the contestants all stopped fighting each other to focus on this guy... they basically dropped kayfabe temporarily so we could all see babyish unprofessionalism on display. It was frankly pathetic.

So, yes, given the standards the WWE has set for itself, I have no doubt it'll happen again.

This. I hate when stuff like this happens. It's like guys like Bob Holly always wanted to show how tough they were by taking liberties with guys. That's real tough. I could beat the s*** out of a guy if it was his job to just take it. Guys like that are just insecure bullies. You didnt see guys like Undertaker or Bret Hart taking cheap shots out there cuz they're professionals who are actually good enough to get over.

But The legion of Doom took liberties , are you saying they only did that because they weren't or couldn't get over?
Also JBL worked incredibly stiff in the APA , Are you saying former world champion JBL wasn't good to get over? Or former World Champion Vader or Stan Hansen or Kenta Kobashi or KENTA or The Great Muta.

I mean look at muta here.




He's incredibly stiff there , are you saying Muta wasn't good enough to get over? Because he was pretty over in his feud with Sting.

[nate5054]

Aug 1, 2012 8:45:55 GMT -5 onestepplan said:

Nah, I doubt it. Guys like JBL and Benoit cut their teeth in a culture that doesn't really exist anymore. They travelled all over and came through everywhere so respect was a big thing to them, but most guys who started getting into wrestling around the Attitude era and after that have a shot at the E just end up in one of the few bigger named indies or head straight down to Florida.

I suppose you might still be able to head over to Japan and get the s*** kicked out of you enough to start preaching respect to young guys coming back, but there aren't many American guys who head to Japan and then the E. The idea of the journeyman wrestler is kind of dead and that old school mentality, in the big leagues anyway, seems to be dying with it.

I'm usually bummed when tradition and stuff dies, but the Bob Holly's of the world can't fade out soon enough.

[carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army)]

Aug 1, 2012 15:54:07 GMT -5 Robbymac said:

Aug 1, 2012 14:12:56 GMT -5 thecrusherwi said:

This. I hate when stuff like this happens. It's like guys like Bob Holly always wanted to show how tough they were by taking liberties with guys. That's real tough. I could beat the s*** out of a guy if it was his job to just take it. Guys like that are just insecure bullies. You didnt see guys like Undertaker or Bret Hart taking cheap shots out there cuz they're professionals who are actually good enough to get over.

Except for that the Puder thing made sense in the context of kayfabe.

Think about who was in the ring. Benoit and Guerrero, who had a kayfabe (and real) friendship. Both were babyfaces as well. So they stopped fighting each other to turn on the sleazy heel who was entering the ring. That spot had been done in several Rumbles before.

Holly was also a no nonsense face in 2005 as well, so him joining in when he entered made sense as well.

Whether it was unprofessional is up for debate, but it certainly didn't break kayfabe.

Except Puder was hardly a heel himself.... he'd just won a popularity contest, for pete's sake.
And it's the Royal Rumble. Every man for himself. Watching the competitors suddenly stop trying to eliminate one another and gang up on this one person is certainly a breach of kayfabe. They should all be trying to win the match.

[BigWill]

Forgive my ignorance, but what was the full story on the Puder/Angle situation? Why did Puder shoot on Angle, and how was the challenge suppose to be?