WWF 1995 or WCW 2000

[britstap]

I always hear about these years being bad, but which year was worse to sit through?

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

In my opinion, WCW 2000. It was just painfully bad, not amusingly bad like 95 WWF was, to me anyways. Then again, I'm someone who's incredibly happy and nostalgic for the days of silly gimmicks like Mantaur and Well Dunn and the like.

[Mayonnaise]

95 WWF I guess. WCW 2000 from about Aug. or so onward was real good, IMO.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

At least when you watch WWF 1995, you can feel that someone is trying, and they are actually trying to make the Kliq guys look like stars. The midcard may have been pathetic, but at least their main event and upper card guys like Michaels, Ramon, Diesel, the Harts, Yokozuna, Bulldog, etc. were all portrayed as above the rest of the pack. Even with their big duds like King Mabel, you at least got the idea that they were trying to make something of him.

WCW 2000 undermined almost everyone on the roster. Whereas 1995 WWF had guys like Nash and Bret as champions, they put their title on Arquette and Russo. People like Goldberg and Scott Steiner had non-sensical heel and face turns, and they made jokes out of guys like Sting, Flair, and Mike Awesome who should be treated as big stars. There were a few glimmers of light like Positively Kanyon, Vampiro, and Lance Storm, but they were stuck amongst the midst of That 70s Guy, the Kiss Demon, and the Viagra on a Pole match. That, and with the head booker changing on a monthly basis, you couldn't count on an angle to finish the way it was intended to at all.

[Mac]

WCW 2000 was better. You still had the feeling anything could happen, and wrestling in general was hotter at the time. in 1995 we had bad matches and guys just not worth caring about.

[trillionaireted]

WCW 2000 had the following:

Screamin' Norman Smiley
Viagra on a pole.
YAPPAPI
Leather Jacket on a pole.
GI Bro.
David Arquette WCW champion.
Dancing Tank Abbot.
THATS THE WALL UP THERE BROTHER!
Vince Russo WCW champion.
'Pregnant' Stacy Kiebler.
Russo frequently calling his star talent pieces of sh*t on live television.
David Flair.
Tank Abbot pulling a knife on Big Al.
Judy Bagwell on a pole
Vince Russo pope mobile.
Goldberg 'not following the script'
Kevin Nash vs Scott Steiner in a straight jacket match.
Positively Kanyon

what is not to like?

[eDemento2099]

Year 2000 WCW was worse. Even at the height of the Wrestlecrap years in 1995, the WWF had guys like Razor Ramon, Shawn Michaels, and Bret Hart consistently putting on incredible matches. If Malenko, Benoit, Saturn, Guerrero, and the Mexican luchadores had not already left WCW by 2000, their presence in the company did not count for much, as I don't remember much good stuff coming from WCW during that time.

I was NOT a fan of the WWF during the Attitude era; I wanted to like WCW, but hated what it became. ECW was the only wrestling promotion I followed regularly after 1998. I tuned into the WWF after it bought out WCW and ECW to see what it would do with those properties, and was so disgusted and disappointed by what I saw that I basically gave up on the WWF/WWE for good (I only sought out matches featuring Chris Benoit and HBK).

[notasmark]

Most people who hate WCW 2000 just hear something's or watch the bad parts on youtube and assume it was all that.

WCW was good from like January-April and then August-December in my opinion. May-July was pretty terrible but still had stand out moments such as Kidman/Hulk, Vampiro/Sting, Booker T's rise etc.

WCW did have some bad stuff in 2000, Russo winning the belt was bad, Arquette winning the belt was bad, Celebrities like James Brown and Gary Coleman making random appearances on P.P.V for no reason, Them openly admitting wrestling was entertainment but they also had some great stuff like bad ass Steiner, The rise of Booker, Jeff Jarrett finally getting a main event push and others like the NBT, Cruiserweight Division, Three Count etc

As for WWF 1995, From what I have seen the shows weren't bad persay they just lacked star power. Michaels, Diesel, Razor and Bret were the only guys on top. The midcard was pretty bad but it wasn't bad booking just the WWF doing the best they could with what they had.

[chazraps]

Aug 28, 2012 20:58:08 GMT -5 Oh Cry Me a Screwball said:

At least when you watch WWF 1995, you can feel that someone is trying, and they are actually trying to make the Kliq guys look like stars. The midcard may have been pathetic, but at least their main event and upper card guys like Michaels, Ramon, Diesel, the Harts, Yokozuna, Bulldog, etc. were all portrayed as above the rest of the pack. Even with their big duds like King Mabel, you at least got the idea that they were trying to make something of him.

WCW 2000 undermined almost everyone on the roster. Whereas 1995 WWF had guys like Nash and Bret as champions, they put their title on Arquette and Russo. People like Goldberg and Scott Steiner had non-sensical heel and face turns, and they made jokes out of guys like Sting, Flair, and Mike Awesome who should be treated as big stars. There were a few glimmers of light like Positively Kanyon, Vampiro, and Lance Storm, but they were stuck amongst the midst of That 70s Guy, the Kiss Demon, and the Viagra on a Pole match. That, and with the head booker changing on a monthly basis, you couldn't count on an angle to finish the way it was intended to at all.

Pretty much.

Basically:

WWF '95 only started angles with an end game in sight. Even if you knew where things were going and it got predictable and stale, it was still a competently put together bit of programming.

WCW 2000 (and I watched religiously until Bash at the Beach 2000 where I just flatout quit and never looked back) made no sense. Storylines were just haphazardly abandoned for no reason, feuds were utterly incomprehensible, it was just a frustrating mess.

WWF '95 rarely, if ever, got frustrating. Bad, but nothing of a noodle-scratcher.

[Manute Bol]

The WWE had some great matches in 1995:

Diesel/Bret Hart (Royal Rumble)
Bret Hart/Hakushi (In Your House)
Shawn Michaels/Jeff Jarrett (In Your House 2)
1-2-3 Kid/Hakushi (SummerSlam)
Ladder Match: Shawn Michaels/Razor Ramon (SummerSlam)
Wild Card Match (Survivor Series)
No DQ: Diesel/Bret Hart (Survivor Series)
Bret Hart/The British Bulldog (In Your House 5)

Not to mention other stuff like the great finish to the Royal Rumble, the initial Bam Bam/LT confrontation, Sid turning on Shawn Michaels, Horowitz's win, the debuts of Goldust and Waylon Mercy (two awesome characters at the time), and Ahmed Johnson slamming Yokozuna.

I'm not as well-versed in WCW (particularly WCW in 2000), but the only matches from this period I wouldn't mind watching again are:

No DQ: Goldberg/Scott Steiner (Fall Brawl)
Ladder Match: 3 Count/Jamie Noble & Evan Karagias/Jung Dragons (Starrcade)

I'm sure there are others I'm missing, but my vote is definitely for 1995 WWE.

[thelonewolf527]

There was 6 different WCW Title reigns in the span of 2 weeks in May.

I'll say it again, the World Title changed hands SIX TIMES in 2 weeks.

Not to mention WWF never had to go and start the company all over again because of how shitty it was getting.

[celticjobber]

1995 WWF was great in comparison to WCW 2000. Bret Hart was having *** to **** matches with almost anyone he worked with (and considering some of the people he worked with, that's a testament to Bret's in-ring skills). Not to mention HBK having good-great matches on a regular basis as well.

WCW 2000 was just plain shitty for the most part.

[MichaelMartini]

I'd say WWF95 was worse. It was boring and seemed like it was solely for little kids, like it is now. WCW 2000 was at least train wreck entertaining.

[Oh Cry Me a Screwball]

Aug 29, 2012 1:43:37 GMT -5 notasmark said:

Most people who hate WCW 2000 just hear something's or watch the bad parts on youtube and assume it was all that.

WCW was good from like January-April and then August-December in my opinion. May-July was pretty terrible but still had stand out moments such as Kidman/Hulk, Vampiro/Sting, Booker T's rise etc.

WCW did have some bad stuff in 2000, Russo winning the belt was bad, Arquette winning the belt was bad, Celebrities like James Brown and Gary Coleman making random appearances on P.P.V for no reason, Them openly admitting wrestling was entertainment but they also had some great stuff like bad ass Steiner, The rise of Booker, Jeff Jarrett finally getting a main event push and others like the NBT, Cruiserweight Division, Three Count etc

As for WWF 1995, From what I have seen the shows weren't bad persay they just lacked star power. Michaels, Diesel, Razor and Bret were the only guys on top. The midcard was pretty bad but it wasn't bad booking just the WWF doing the best they could with what they had.

I totally disagree on January-April. Once the Souled Out mess happened, WCW lost their best performers either to the competition or injury. However, that was only half the problem as the regime that was left started booking some of the dullest shows you will ever see. Most of it was centered around an nWo variation comprised of Jeff Jarrett and the Harris Brothers feuding with Sid over the title. And this was the era that produced Booker T feuding with Harlem Heat 2000 over the letter T. The Cruiserweight division still had some talent, but it was headed by The Artist Formerly Known as Prince Iukea. It was not very good at all.

You are right that there was still plenty of good stuff to be found, but it wasn't easy to follow the product to witness it either. Yeah, Lance Storm was a Triple Crown champion, but he was defending those titles against the Fat Chick Thriller. Positively Kanyon was one of the best comedic characters ever, but he also innovated the Judy Bagwell on a Poll Match and once was in a tag team match with Mark Madden and Gene Okerlund. Booker T was able to finally get his shot at the title, but he had to survive GI Bro first. The New Blood vs. Millionaire's Club angle had a lot of potential, but the stables were already dissolved by the time of the New Blood Rising PPV.

There was no consistency in WCW 2000, and you couldn't latch onto an act and call it your favorite because Russo could be out of power next week and all of the sudden, the interim writer turns them heel/face because they don't know what to do with him. Remember when Kronik was getting over as badass brusiers? Then they turned them heel for no reason. Remember Mike Awesome in Team Canada? I wish I didn't. Even Kevin Nash turned heel one week shortly after being portrayed as the victim in the Goldberg heel turn and having Scott Hall's contract terminated.

[The Dark Order Inferno]

Having watched both back in the day, I think WWF 1995 was worse. As bad as WCW 2000 was, it was never boring, the same can't be said for the bulk of WWF programming in 1995. The WWF roster had a fair amount of talent, people who could have had good feuds and reasonable matches if given a shot but the booking style, gimmickry and various backstage machinations prevented that.

WCW 2000 was a car wreck, WWF was a vintage car up on bricks, rusting on a front lawn in a rundown part of town.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2012 2:31:43 GMT -5 MichaelMartini said:

I'd say WWF95 was worse. It was boring and seemed like it was solely for little kids, like it is now. WCW 2000 was at least train wreck entertaining.

This, I remember having a lot of fun watching WCW 2000 with friends when I was a kid, whereas WWF 1995 was largely dull as far as stories went.

[DavidArquette]

I suppose WCW in 2000 was worse when you look at both years and the company's previous years objectively. However I really enjoy watching shows from both these years!

[Ben Wyatt]

Aug 28, 2012 20:54:09 GMT -5 Mayonnaise said:

WCW 2000 from about Aug. or so onward was real good, IMO.

Ive always maintained that WCW near the very end was *just* starting to get some solid footing and had the feel that with time, they could have gotten back into the game.

[KRUGkiller]

wcw 2000 was way way worse, at least in 95 wwf you had alot of great matches and while the storylines were mostly crap i still think the characters were great, taker, hbk, desiel, razor,owen, of course characters too good for the product at the time .

[h]

Aug 29, 2012 2:26:53 GMT -5 celticjobber said:

Bret Hart was having *** to **** matches with almost anyone he worked with...

When I first read this, I had a hard time figuring out which words were being censored. I knew that *** could only be "ass," but ass to what? He had ass to shit matches? Ass to f*** matches? What do those things even mean?

Oh...wait. Three to four star matches. Gotcha.