|
Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 24, 2011 10:43:49 GMT -5
So yeah, TNA got hammered heavy with the Rob Terry unprotected chair shot. The reasoning behind it I feel was not only putting his health in danger, but setting an example for a lot of wrestlers that, if you want to get over like a beast, no sell an unprotected chair shot to the head. Personally, I'm not opposed to them per se, but usually when done well, by guys who know what they're doing, and if done at the right time, they can add to a match.
I've defended Raven vs Dreamer using two of them at their Hardcore Justice match, including one that leads to the finish. I felt that Triple H and The Undertaker were fined unjustly due to their use of a headshot with a chair, due to it being protected, being used once, and adding to the story of Triple H trying to do anything to win the match.
So what happens at Final Battle. Steen and Corino bash each other's brains in, but even worse, multiple chair shots to the Briscoes from Wrestling's Greatest Tag Team. With Nigel McGuinness pleading with Jay to get his hands up, a man who knows all too well about concussions.
So yeah, again, the controversial Rob Terry shot was destroyed tonight, and ROH set the new standard for senseless chair shots and irresponsible participants.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Socko's Brother on Dec 24, 2011 10:46:31 GMT -5
I was really surprised. Last year in the bloody match between Steen and Generico, I think there was only ONE chair shot to the head, right at the very end. And it looked to me like Steen took that shot more on his shoulder than on his head. But last night the chairs and other objects were very clearly connecting with guys' skulls, and I was seriously concerned for them.
|
|
|
Post by héad.casé on Dec 24, 2011 10:59:23 GMT -5
I said this last year, as a worker myself, no one is forced to take an unprotected chair shot. If they don't want to take it, they don't have to, if they want to, it's on them. My best friend took one last month in a TLC match that made us all cringe. I asked him if he was ok, he said it felt like the lights had gone out and come back on again. It's on him for not getting his hands up, and he didn't care too much.
That's why I hate people getting on TNA for the shot to Rob Terry, when it was Rob who was ok with taking a shot like that. Nothing - NOTHING ever happens without a wrestler's say so.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 11:14:08 GMT -5
I said this last year, as a worker myself, no one is forced to take an unprotected chair shot. If they don't want to take it, they don't have to, if they want to, it's on them. My best friend took one last month in a TLC match that made us all cringe. I asked him if he was ok, he said it felt like the lights had gone out and come back on again. It's on him for not getting his hands up, and he didn't care too much. That's why I hate people getting on TNA for the shot to Rob Terry, when it was Rob who was ok with taking a shot like that. Nothing - NOTHING ever happens without a wrestler's say so. I respect this side of the argument, but in this day and age promotions really shouldn't even be asking guys to take them. My opinion is that if chair shots are phased out almost entirely then the once a year or so that a guy would take one it would a) mean more, and b) be safer for all of the workers.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Dec 24, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -5
I said this last year, as a worker myself, no one is forced to take an unprotected chair shot. If they don't want to take it, they don't have to, if they want to, it's on them. My best friend took one last month in a TLC match that made us all cringe. It's similar to the steroids debate and I can see both sides of it. Why should a promotion care about steroids in a scripted sport? If a guy wants to do something that's potentially unhealthy, it's on them, right? And I guess the other side is that if someone is allowed to do something unhealthy to get ahead, than it creates pressure for others to do the unhealthy thing as well. And you don't necessarily want to tie wrestler success with how self-destructive they can be. On the other hand, the wrestling lifestyle probably is the healthiest thing in the world to begin with, and these are all adults. The WWE has so many difficult decisions with all of this stuff. (and of course, they have the added pressure of being in the public eye, and being implicated in any wrestlers' deaths in a way a indy promotion never would be.)
|
|
|
Post by Djm Doesn't Find You Funny on Dec 24, 2011 11:25:52 GMT -5
I'm gonna take a slightly different perspective on this. Along with chairshots, I recently watched PWG's Steen Wolf, and after the ladder match, it just felt like it was just too much. The announcers, fan's reactions, they were all at the point where they just wanted to stop more than anything.
I think unprotected chairshots are the same. So, my question is, why does the talent do it? And I don't want the answer to be "because YOU the fans want it", because it's just not true. Otherwise, there would've been no backlash towards TNA with Rob Terry, this thread wouldn't have been made, and I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable as I did after watching the ladder match between Steen & Generico.
|
|
Tiger Maskooo
Samurai Cop
I cant hear you over the sound of how much im tiger masking
Posts: 2,384
|
Post by Tiger Maskooo on Dec 24, 2011 11:37:57 GMT -5
I'm gonna take a slightly different perspective on this. Along with chairshots, I recently watched PWG's Steen Wolf, and after the ladder match, it just felt like it was just too much. The announcers, fan's reactions, they were all at the point where they just wanted to stop more than anything. I think unprotected chairshots are the same. So, my question is, why does the talent do it? And I don't want the answer to be "because YOU the fans want it", because it's just not true. Otherwise, there would've been no backlash towards TNA with Rob Terry, this thread wouldn't have been made, and I wouldn't have felt as uncomfortable as I did after watching the ladder match between Steen & Generico. I think alot of people do want it though. I mean alot of the people ive talked to about the chairshot in taker vs triple h found it exciting. It's one of the things that evokes a geunine emotional response in wrestling. Plus,alot of wrestlers in history are pretty reckless people who are all about wrestling. Edge,angle and austin coming back from neck injuries was reckless. Taking certain bumps is reckless. Ladder matches,cage matches.. It's not too much of a logical extension to go from that to risking brain injury. Keep in mind,im not condoning it. I think its kinda f***in stupid but I think its easy to see why theyd do it.
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 24, 2011 11:46:45 GMT -5
ROH needs to get called out on it. After all the things that has happened & research findings in the last 5 years and you still doing business as usual, you deserved whatever flack you get.
|
|
|
Post by Some Guy on Dec 24, 2011 12:29:13 GMT -5
Taker's chair shot wasn't unprotected, he put his hand up so that it would take the majority of the damage. Not sure why that one was singled out. I definitely cringed during the Briscoes chair shots though, that was easily the most uncomfortable moment of the night (which shouldn't happen considering the spots during Corino/Steen).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 13:06:34 GMT -5
Somewhat off topic, but when did ridiculous chairshots became the norm? When I was a kid they'd occasionally use chair shots but they mostly looked pretty weak, other than that they would use their gimmicks for the knockout weaponry(i.e. Honky's guitar, or a chain or brass knucks, etc.).
At what point did guys just decide to see who was man enough to take these full blast chairshots? It just started happening one day, and that day was stupid.
|
|
mcmahonfan85
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,976
Member is Online
|
Post by mcmahonfan85 on Dec 24, 2011 13:07:34 GMT -5
ROH needs to get called out on it. After all the things that has happened & research findings in the last 5 years and you still doing business as usual, you deserved whatever flack you get. but did ROH make them do it, or did the wrestlers decided to do it on their own?
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 24, 2011 13:32:09 GMT -5
Somewhat off topic, but when did ridiculous chairshots became the norm? When I was a kid they'd occasionally use chair shots but they mostly looked pretty weak, other than that they would use their gimmicks for the knockout weaponry(i.e. Honky's guitar, or a chain or brass knucks, etc.). At what point did guys just decide to see who was man enough to take these full blast chairshots? It just started happening one day, and that day was stupid. It started in Japanese deathmatches and got popular here because of ECW. I remember watching people get hit with a plastic chair and it got sold like a shotgun blast.
|
|
|
Post by héad.casé on Dec 24, 2011 13:33:47 GMT -5
The wrestlers decide to do it on their own. Can't put that point across much more than I already have. Is it stupid? Yeah it is, but when the adrenaline is flowing you don't feel a damn thing really until you come down from the buzz of performing. I don't feel anything until the next day.
|
|
|
Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 24, 2011 13:34:18 GMT -5
ROH needs to get called out on it. After all the things that has happened & research findings in the last 5 years and you still doing business as usual, you deserved whatever flack you get. but did ROH make them do it, or did the wrestlers decided to do it on their own? If the wrestlers decided to do it, severely fine or fire them. It the booker decided it, same thing goes.
|
|
|
Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Dec 24, 2011 13:42:56 GMT -5
I actually didn't mind the chair shots during the Steen/Corino because it really put over the brutality of the match.
As I said last night in the Final Battle thread, however, those chair shots during the WGTT/Briscoes were bullshit. They added NOTHING to the match and there was no reason for the Briscoes to not put their hands up. Nigel screaming, "For the love of God, put your hands up!", with genuine concern in his voice just made me hate the chair shots even more.
As someone else said, I doubt ROH MADE the Briscoes take unprotected chair shots, so at the end of the day, it really is on the Briscoes for being so stupid that even after the Chris Benoit incident and numerous guys having to retire to concussions/neck injuries, they can't be bothered to put their hands up for a chairshot.
|
|
|
Post by Muskrat on Dec 24, 2011 15:09:28 GMT -5
but did ROH make them do it, or did the wrestlers decided to do it on their own? If the wrestlers decided to do it, severely fine or fire them. It the booker decided it, same thing goes. This. At some point you have to protect the wrestlers from themselves. You'll never see a football player who says they're too hurt to play that's why we have doctors to do it for them, to protect them from themselves.
|
|
|
Post by lildude8218 on Dec 24, 2011 16:21:24 GMT -5
my main issue with the Rob Terry chairshot from Homicide was that the announcers didn't even act like it was a huge deal. some things can speak for themselves. that isn't one of them.
|
|
|
Post by slasher911 on Dec 24, 2011 16:47:08 GMT -5
It's not the end of the world. Is it stupid? Sure, and so is slipping off the top rope and breaking your neck.
Not every chairshot is gonna lead to the next Chris Benoit. Hell, take a few dozen unprotected shots and you might be a New York Times bestseller some day.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 17:08:58 GMT -5
I said this last year, as a worker myself, no one is forced to take an unprotected chair shot. If they don't want to take it, they don't have to, if they want to, it's on them. My best friend took one last month in a TLC match that made us all cringe. It's similar to the steroids debate and I can see both sides of it. Why should a promotion care about steroids in a scripted sport? If a guy wants to do something that's potentially unhealthy, it's on them, right? And I guess the other side is that if someone is allowed to do something unhealthy to get ahead, than it creates pressure for others to do the unhealthy thing as well. And you don't necessarily want to tie wrestler success with how self-destructive they can be. On the other hand, the wrestling lifestyle probably is the healthiest thing in the world to begin with, and these are all adults. The WWE has so many difficult decisions with all of this stuff. (and of course, they have the added pressure of being in the public eye, and being implicated in any wrestlers' deaths in a way a indy promotion never would be.) I think the best you can do as a company is dole out punishments for using them. That's all you can do because it's otherwise down to personal responsibility. I said in the Final Battle thread that as a viewer, if Steen/Corino was the only match with a chairshot in the head, I'd grin and bare it because it was a one off in a high intensity feud(though I still think they should put their hands up), but then after all the stuff with WGTT/Briscoes it became a standout problem. You can't really blame ROH until we know how they respond to the criticism. As mentioned I'm 100% sure no one told them to go out there and take one on the head. But it is disappointing to see happen in a company I appreciate as much as ROH. Hopefully they do something to settle their guys down a little.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2011 17:24:34 GMT -5
It's not the end of the world. Is it stupid? Sure, and so is slipping off the top rope and breaking your neck. Not every chairshot is gonna lead to the next Chris Benoit. Hell, take a few dozen unprotected shots and you might be a New York Times bestseller some day. I don't think that anyone is really worried about another Benoit situation as that was more than just chairshots/brain damage anyways. I personally just think that it's stupid to take that kind of abuse for no real payoff. Wrestlers bodies are already put through so much, why must they bludgeon each other for our amusement as well?
|
|