chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 29, 2011 18:34:31 GMT -5
So, tonight marks 15 years since the Hogan-Piper match at Starrcade '96. From about June onward, WCW had finally found what worked in terms of can't-miss programming and this main event was to cap off One of the best years, and cards, the company ever had.
The big thing that stands out to me is that, while it was fun, AT NO POINT was it declared a non-title match. While the week before they did announce it was a "Grudge match," at no point did either party or the company itself say it wasn't for the world heavyweight championship. I remember tuning in to Nitro the next night and being confused as to why Hogan had the belt and thought maybe something had happened again after the PPV feed went off.
Otherwise, the decade after Wrestlemania "who is the icon" was a perfect proto-nostalgia feud and I think the quality of this storyline/match is marred by the bad Superbrawl rematch and worse Age-in-the-Cage rubberman match at Havoc that year.
How do you remember feeling when you watched it? Has your opinion changed when revisiting it?
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Post by Bishblast on Dec 29, 2011 18:36:43 GMT -5
Should I pull out my VHS copy and watch this?
No. I'll pass.
However, I do recall I was wanting to go to this show sooo badly (it would have been my first wrestling show). My best friends as a kid went to this with their family, and wouldn't shut up about how much bullshit that main event was. I didn't see it until I rented the tape a few years later and made a copy of it. Horrendous.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
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Post by El Dandy on Dec 29, 2011 20:14:42 GMT -5
Pretty much every main event featuring Hogan at that point and onwards had a run-in. I'm serious. Go back and look at just about every main event match Hogan was in, there was a run-in involved. The best part about their match in the cage was Macho climbing the cage and coming down with a double axe handle. I think there was even a fan run-in at that point.
I don't remember much about their Starrcade match, which I guess is pretty much indicative of just how good that match is, which is not very good. I could remember matches from the 80s but not that one. I only recall Piper winning with a sleeper hold. He might as well have applied a sleeper hold on the entire audience watching that match.
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Post by RareTradU on Dec 29, 2011 20:37:49 GMT -5
A lot of people will give it grief considering its Hogan. But in 1996 WCW was red hot and getting hotter. The match was what it was but when Hogan's arm dropped for the 3rd time from the sleeper the pop from the crowd was amazing! Even referee PeeWee Anderson's look of shock was great! I'm pretty sure in a interview that Piper stated that the match wasn't about the championship but respect and who was the bigger icon. Also it was never advertised as a championship match, but I can see how it seems bait and switch to some people. I loved it back then, not so much in 2003 when WWE did it.
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Post by baronmordo on Dec 29, 2011 20:56:43 GMT -5
I still don't get the people who thought this was a title match. They never said that once. Anyway, like Jim Cornette said, these guys were sucking wind so bad in this match the first three rows passed out from oxygen deprivation. Absolutely awful.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
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Post by El Dandy on Dec 29, 2011 21:17:29 GMT -5
What I thought WCW did very properly then was building up matches. They built up this Starrcade main event feud from Halloween Havoc on. Sting's transformation to the dark Crow Sting and his feud with Hogan was probably the best buildup to one of the most anticipated main events in the history of wrestling. The problem was the payoff. In the end, they failed to deliver.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Dec 29, 2011 21:35:48 GMT -5
I remember it. As I was a huge Piper fan. The build for this match was awesome as well the feud itself. The matches really only played second hand in it. Yes they where horrible but fans where so into it. The reaction Piper got when Hogan went out was huge. Piper in WCW was amazing because he always got a huge reaction.
The matches where as good as you can expect from Hogan and Piper who are more about there mic skills then wrestling skills. More so that they where aging on top of that.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
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Post by El Dandy on Dec 29, 2011 21:42:57 GMT -5
The best Hogan-Piper match will always be "The War to Settle the Score" which you can find on youtube. It is interesting that Hogan never did pin Piper. Unless it happened on house shows that were seen by a few thousand during the 80s, they acknowledged in WCW that Hogan had never cleanly beat Piper.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 29, 2011 22:00:42 GMT -5
I still don't get the people who thought this was a title match. They never said that once. For the first two weeks after it was signed, they actually did say it was for the world heavyweight title. It remained on all of the WCW Saturday Night hype packages for it leading up to the event. Then that phrasing was replaced with "Grudge Match" at the show itself. Even if they never said that though, why would you not expect the world champion to be putting his title on the line in the main event of the company's biggest show of the year? If anything, I don't get who WOULDN'T think this was a title match.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Paco on Dec 29, 2011 22:02:18 GMT -5
I still don't get the people who thought this was a title match. They never said that once. Anyway, like Jim Cornette said, these guys were sucking wind so bad in this match the first three rows passed out from oxygen deprivation. Absolutely awful. Actually, he said that about "Age in the Cage" at Halloween Havoc '97. The StarrCade match is more than decent compared to that one.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Dec 29, 2011 22:02:38 GMT -5
Pretty much every main event featuring Hogan at that point and onwards had a run-in. I'm serious. Go back and look at just about every main event match Hogan was in, there was a run-in involved. The best part about their match in the cage was Macho climbing the cage and coming down with a double axe handle. I think there was even a fan run-in at that point. I don't remember much about their Starrcade match, which I guess is pretty much indicative of just how good that match is, which is not very good. I could remember matches from the 80s but not that one. I only recall Piper winning with a sleeper hold. He might as well have applied a sleeper hold on the entire audience watching that match. Coincidentally, this was Hogan's first completely clean loss since Wrestlemania 6, and possibly his only clean loss in WCW. (Was Goldberg a clean loss?) It's probably in the top 3 or so matches he had post-nWo. But perhaps my memory is elevating it compared to how f***ing awful their two follow-up matches were.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
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Post by El Dandy on Dec 29, 2011 22:08:38 GMT -5
There was outside interference in the Goldberg-Hogan match from DDP and Karl Malone, which setup their match for Bash at the Beach against Hogan and Rodman. For no apparent reason, Curt Hennig comes out during the main event, DDP and Karl Malone run out to stop him and he gets hit by a diamond cutter, Hogan is distracted by this, turns around, gets speared, jackhammered and pinned.
If you guys want to see other slow and plodding Hogan main event matches, watch his stuff against Randy Savage in WCW. They were so damn bad. It's a shame too when you consider the quality of matches they had in the WWF.
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BlackoutCreature
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 30, 2011 1:33:47 GMT -5
The fact is that while turning heel revived Hogan's career, it killed any kind of workrate he had left. He was never the greatest worker during his prime (although not nearly as bad as some people make him out to be), but at least as a face he brought an energy to his matches and could get the crowd into it. As a heel his matches were just cheap heat tactics and slow slow SLOW domination segments. The crowd would be interested to see what crazy nWo thing would happen next, but the matches themselves were brutal to watch.
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El Dandy
Don Corleone
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Post by El Dandy on Dec 30, 2011 3:01:26 GMT -5
That's a very accurate assessment of Hogan's workrate when comparing him as a face and a heel. He constantly resorted to cheap heel tactics, stalling outside of the ring, removing his weight belt to whip his opponents, the back rakes, the eye rakes, running away like a coward, pleading for mercy from his opponent, getting aid from outside interference.
Those were all a part of his repertoire as a heel. You saw one Hollywood Hogan match in WCW, you've seen 'em all. He got really lazy and just road on the coattails of having the hottest storyline in wrestling at the time. Too bad for him and WCW, the WWF caught on by introducing something that was a hell of a lot more refreshing and exciting.
At some point they also ran out of guys for Hogan to feud with since he had either beaten them all or they had already defeated him.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 30, 2011 16:54:43 GMT -5
good timing
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 16:56:14 GMT -5
I remember seeing the finish (scrambled) as a child, that's about it.
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Post by Handsome Halfbreed on Dec 30, 2011 17:29:49 GMT -5
I never bought into this rematch because when Piper initially aproached Hogan at the end of Halloween Havoc '96, Piper told Hogan that he was the only guy that Hogan was never been able to beat.... BS! I remember screaming... Yokozuna and Ultimate Warrior immediately came to mind. Also Jim Cornette buried both Piper and Hogan during one of his 'my thoughts' rants and that also made the fued weak to me.
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Post by Clawley Race on Dec 30, 2011 20:38:45 GMT -5
you dont think hulk hogan pinned yokozuna?
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Post by molson5 on Dec 30, 2011 21:10:45 GMT -5
FWIW, at the time, as a college freshman, I knew it wasn't a title match going into it - I don't remember at all why I knew that or what was announced, it was just kind of advertised as an exhibition match between Hogan and a guy outside the company. I never really thought of Piper as a guy coming to challenge for the WCW title, he was just looking to take out Hogan. So whatever message WCW was sending about that, I got the message.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 30, 2011 23:11:13 GMT -5
I never bought into this rematch because when Piper initially aproached Hogan at the end of Halloween Havoc '96, Piper told Hogan that he was the only guy that Hogan was never been able to beat.... BS! I remember screaming... Yokozuna and Ultimate Warrior immediately came to mind. Also Jim Cornette buried both Piper and Hogan during one of his 'my thoughts' rants and that also made the fued weak to me. Ummmm, Hogan pinned Yokozuna at Wrestlemania IX.
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