Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,127
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 20, 2012 23:38:24 GMT -5
Good, important thread. If I paid the money and took the time to paint my blue room pink and asked you to refer to it as my "pink room," would you be against my calling it a "pink room" or my entering it in "prettiest pink room" contests? I would be opposed if all the furniture inside was still blue. I just have to pose a question for everyone in this thread. Lets just assume you're 100% heterosexual and have never been attracted to someone of your same sex, if you happened to meet someone that was a postop tranny that is now the sex that you're attracted to would you consider dating them? Personally I couldn't just for the sheer fact that she would still be a dude to me. I say this as a guy who is all about equal rights but I couldn't do it. Does this make me a bad person? I think it sounds like you have very little exposure to transgendered people. I am not insulting you in saying that, I am just saying you sound like you have a lot of uncertainty on the topic. That said, try not to use the word "tranny". It is not going to make things any easier for you in trying to understand things. Beyond that, date who you want to date, I guess, but I don't think it's anything someone will spring on you, anyway.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Nov 20, 2012 23:49:31 GMT -5
She self-identifies as female, even if biologically she is not. And that right there is the crux of the matter. I can respect the fact that she views herself as female, but the biology says otherwise. That's what a lot of people go on. It doesn't matter what they change or how they feel, the biology stays the same.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2012 0:01:49 GMT -5
Change the biology and I'll you consider you whatever. Don't and you are what you are.
Also two bathrooms is enough.
Said all I'm gonna.
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Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Nov 21, 2012 0:07:49 GMT -5
She self-identifies as female, even if biologically she is not. And that right there is the crux of the matter. I can respect the fact that she views herself as female, but the biology says otherwise. That's what a lot of people go on. It doesn't matter what they change or how they feel, the biology stays the same. But the body is inherently plastic and changeable. What is 'natural' about the biology of the body as a regulation of sexual difference is socially determined and itself is just as changeable over time. You change the body, therefore you change the determination of sexual difference. Even then, sexuality isn't determined by what set of biological difference one is born with. And so much of the essentializing aspects of gender that are pinned upon the necessity of immutable biological definition ignores the social construction of those aspects as 'norms' and how they are performed within the larger social body. *goes back to reading Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble"*
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Brainbustaaah!
Hank Scorpio
Best Damn Finishing Move Period
Posts: 5,600
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Post by Brainbustaaah! on Nov 21, 2012 0:48:29 GMT -5
Good, important thread. If I paid the money and took the time to paint my blue room pink and asked you to refer to it as my "pink room," would you be against my calling it a "pink room" or my entering it in "prettiest pink room" contests? I would be opposed if all the furniture inside was still blue. I just have to pose a question for everyone in this thread. Lets just assume you're 100% heterosexual and have never been attracted to someone of your same sex, if you happened to meet someone that was a postop tranny that is now the sex that you're attracted to would you consider dating them? Personally I couldn't just for the sheer fact that she would still be a dude to me. I say this as a guy who is all about equal rights but I couldn't do it. Does this make me a bad person? 1) Yes. Yes, I would. But it would depend on their personality, their interests, and yes, their appearance. I'm a little shallow in that manner, but I wouldn't care what their pre-op gender was. Who they are is who they are. 2) I can't say that it makes you a bad person. I won't, because it doesn't. Any matter of perception is something that's up to each individual. Just as I feel I could ignore or not think about the fact that they're transsexual (and I feel weird saying that, as if it's something that needs to be "ignored"), you couldn't. Just a matter of personal taste.
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Toxik916
Hank Scorpio
Sacramento Proud
Posts: 6,207
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Post by Toxik916 on Nov 21, 2012 1:09:43 GMT -5
Thank you for everyone helping me try to understand this issue. For everyone that said I have inexperience with the trans community you are100% correct. I have friends of most all walks of life except trans and I'm trying so hard to understand it. I think I accept people for who they are, but for some reason I'm having a hard time with the idea of the trans community being something they're not.
For instance when it comes to homosexuality I firmly believe that that's how people are born. I just can't make that same connection when it comes to people that are born as a certain sex, but feel they're supposed to be the opposite.
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Beav
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 5,556
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Post by Beav on Nov 21, 2012 1:45:21 GMT -5
I have nothing but respect, sympathy, and understanding for the TG community.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,989
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Post by chazraps on Nov 21, 2012 1:51:20 GMT -5
Good, important thread. If I paid the money and took the time to paint my blue room pink and asked you to refer to it as my "pink room," would you be against my calling it a "pink room" or my entering it in "prettiest pink room" contests? I would be opposed if all the furniture inside was still blue. I just have to pose a question for everyone in this thread. Lets just assume you're 100% heterosexual and have never been attracted to someone of your same sex, if you happened to meet someone that was a postop tranny that is now the sex that you're attracted to would you consider dating them? Personally I couldn't just for the sheer fact that she would still be a dude to me. I say this as a guy who is all about equal rights but I couldn't do it. Does this make me a bad person? Whether you would date someone or not doesn't determine what gender they are. I'm not trying to call you out here, because I appreciate you making the effort to have a dialogue and enjoy your posts AND I don't think you're necessarily saying this, but it's worth mentioning that just because you're not attracted to the idea of copulating with someone shouldn't be a determining factor in how you categorize people other than the list of people you would engage in coitus with. If a woman at one point had a penis, that's something that was a part of her life in the past. You aren't insensitive, ignorant or a bad person for not being able to move past that in terms of whether or not you would choose to have an intimate relationship with her. Her genitalia isn't all that she is, but if it's a red flag that you just can't be attracted to, so be it. There's plenty of dealbreaking red flags we all have. Gender-corrective surgery is just that, a corrective surgery. Someone who has always identified as a woman but was born a man taking the steps necessary to become a woman isn't all that different than someone with poor eye-sight getting a corrective eye surgery, or someone born deaf getting an operation where they can hear again.
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Toxik916
Hank Scorpio
Sacramento Proud
Posts: 6,207
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Post by Toxik916 on Nov 21, 2012 3:56:42 GMT -5
I would be opposed if all the furniture inside was still blue. I just have to pose a question for everyone in this thread. Lets just assume you're 100% heterosexual and have never been attracted to someone of your same sex, if you happened to meet someone that was a postop tranny that is now the sex that you're attracted to would you consider dating them? Personally I couldn't just for the sheer fact that she would still be a dude to me. I say this as a guy who is all about equal rights but I couldn't do it. Does this make me a bad person? Whether you would date someone or not doesn't determine what gender they are. I'm not trying to call you out here, because I appreciate you making the effort to have a dialogue and enjoy your posts AND I don't think you're necessarily saying this, but it's worth mentioning that just because you're not attracted to the idea of copulating with someone shouldn't be a determining factor in how you categorize people other than the list of people you would engage in coitus with. If a woman at one point had a penis, that's something that was a part of her life in the past. You aren't insensitive, ignorant or a bad person for not being able to move past that in terms of whether or not you would choose to have an intimate relationship with her. Her genitalia isn't all that she is, but if it's a red flag that you just can't be attracted to, so be it. There's plenty of dealbreaking red flags we all have. Gender-corrective surgery is just that, a corrective surgery. Someone who has always identified as a woman but was born a man taking the steps necessary to become a woman isn't all that different than someone with poor eye-sight getting a corrective eye surgery, or someone born deaf getting an operation where they can hear again. Wow! Seriously thank you for this post. The whole "corrective surgery" argument really made sense to me. My attraction level shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things because I've met plenty of "natural born" women that I would never engage in relations with.
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