BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by BigWill on Jan 4, 2012 19:43:55 GMT -5
Even if Kaval had gotten the opportunity to wait for a push, it likely wasn't coming. The WWE doesn't make sure to make a superstar look like a complete jobber if they have any plans in the future to give them any sort of big push. I can't even remember the last time someone that's been labeled a jobber has ever gotten a significant push, aside from Ryder. And just look at the last few new people the WWE was interested in. Sin Cara, Del Rio, Kharma. All of them were pushed fairly hard right out of the gate, because that's how you get new people over. So people can't just say it was all so he could "pay his dues". The WWE never saw him as ever being any more than a jobber, and wanted to make sure fans saw him that way as well.
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Post by Savage Gambino on Jan 4, 2012 19:55:12 GMT -5
I still don't buy the "WWE didn't want him to win NXT" argument. If WWE wanted someone specific to win NXT, that someone would have won NXT. It's not like Alex Riley got treated any better. He was a stooge who got destroyed on a weekly basis, had a brief (BRIEF) push, and has since disappeared for months. i tough you would said "had a briefcase" He did have a briefcase, one time.  I mean, it was Miz's briefcase, but still... |
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319 
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Post by mrjl on Jan 4, 2012 20:14:49 GMT -5
Even if Kaval had gotten the opportunity to wait for a push, it likely wasn't coming. The WWE doesn't make sure to make a superstar look like a complete jobber if they have any plans in the future to give them any sort of big push. I can't even remember the last time someone that's been labeled a jobber has ever gotten a significant push, aside from Ryder. And just look at the last few new people the WWE was interested in. Sin Cara, Del Rio, Kharma. All of them were pushed fairly hard right out of the gate, because that's how you get new people over. So people can't just say it was all so he could "pay his dues". The WWE never saw him as ever being any more than a jobber, and wanted to make sure fans saw him that way as well. The guy who's World Champ never won a match on NXT, won his first match on Raw and was then taken off TV for something like four months |
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Jan 4, 2012 20:15:41 GMT -5
The geniuses backstage decided, well before Kaval's onscreen debut, that he wasn't suited to be anything more than enhancement talent, and they refused to let fan reactions or anything else dissuade them from that belief.
You'd think someone backstage would've pointed out that if it'd look so bad for WWE to release a guy that they'd need to falsify a story that he asked for his release, then maybe they SHOULDN'T RELEASE HIM.
The odd thing is, I completely expected Kaval to make it much farther in WWE than Bryan; he's flashier and has the sort of larger-than-life aura that fits with the company. I guess having the support of HBK and Regal helped open doors for him.
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Post by norsisclouds on Jan 4, 2012 20:15:55 GMT -5
WWE just does not like anyone that got made in a different promotion...look at how they treated the majority of stars from the Invasion or ECW, or the women for that matter. Kharma got lucky--the majority of women who had indie experience, aside from Mickie--were not very well known until they got into WWE. They like the idea of building their very own stars. They will always push an internal talent over an external one--I firmly believe this is why they always will try to push a Riley over a Kaval or a model like Candice over Mickie/Ashley over Mickie. Aside from the cosmetic concerns, they want someone they trained that is homegrown and belongs to them completely. They looooved this about Edge, Trish Stratus, Batista, and the Rock.
The few guys that started elsewhere and got over are an exception (like Austin, Y2J) most come over and get midcard for life.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jan 4, 2012 20:23:50 GMT -5
Even if Kaval had gotten the opportunity to wait for a push, it likely wasn't coming. The WWE doesn't make sure to make a superstar look like a complete jobber if they have any plans in the future to give them any sort of big push. I can't even remember the last time someone that's been labeled a jobber has ever gotten a significant push, aside from Ryder. And just look at the last few new people the WWE was interested in. Sin Cara, Del Rio, Kharma. All of them were pushed fairly hard right out of the gate, because that's how you get new people over. So people can't just say it was all so he could "pay his dues". The WWE never saw him as ever being any more than a jobber, and wanted to make sure fans saw him that way as well. The guy who's World Champ never won a match on NXT, won his first match on Raw and was then taken off TV for something like four months So , what's your point? He was the main focus of NXT, despite the losses. He was taken off TV for reasons that have nothing to do with this discussion. And was made US champion shortly after his return. Daniel Bryan was never made to look like a jobber once he got on the main roster. Kaval was. |
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Jan 4, 2012 21:11:44 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think Kaval just had the patience for WWE to push him. Look at how many matches Daniel Bryan had to lose before he got the world title. WWE wants the new guys to "pay their dues" or whatever, and I think Kaval was frustrated and impatient or lacking faith for whatever reason. I think had he stuck with the company, he could be a bigger star than he is right now. But, whatever.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 4, 2012 21:13:18 GMT -5
People just don't read more than the first post.
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Post by juvijuiceisloose on Jan 4, 2012 21:15:13 GMT -5
People just don't read more than the first post. How many times to we have to say same thing over and over? HE DIDN'T ASK FOR HIS RELEASE!!! |
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percymania
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Percymania will live forever! Oh yeah!
Posts: 17,296
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Post by percymania on Jan 4, 2012 21:18:52 GMT -5
oh well now don't I have egg on my face.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 4, 2012 21:33:58 GMT -5
It's a shame his WWE run went the way it did. He would have been insane in a Money In The Bank match.
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Post by molson5 on Jan 4, 2012 21:40:35 GMT -5
WWE just does not like anyone that got made in a different promotion.. Well, except for the guy Vince built his entire empire around, as well as dozens of other legends, most of the stars of the 80s and attitude era, and their current champions. And ya, and if the WWE doesn't push the guy I like to the moon his first year in the company there obviously must be some evil, vengeful conspiracy behind it, since I know everything that happens backstage, so I can rule any other possible reason out. We're in rare form in this thread. |
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Post by molson5 on Jan 4, 2012 21:54:14 GMT -5
If only we had done what they told us and voted for Michael McGillicutty or Alex Riley like they wanted then maybe NXT wouldn't be a joke nowadays. And wait a minute, if they wanted one of those guys to win and not Kaval, why'd they make Riley a douchebag heel, McGuillicutty a whiny heel, and Kaval a cool babyface? Kaval was given the "cool indy" push from the start, it was 100% obvious he'd win any legit fan vote. |
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Jan 4, 2012 22:03:40 GMT -5
WWE just does not like anyone that got made in a different promotion.. Well, except for the guy Vince built his entire empire around, as well as dozens of other legends, most of the stars of the 80s and attitude era, and their current champions. And ya, and if the WWE doesn't push the guy I like to the moon his first year in the company there obviously must be some evil, vengeful conspiracy behind it, since I know everything that happens backstage, so I can rule any other possible reason out. We're in rare form in this thread. Slight difference between pushing a guy to the moon and not treating him like a total jobber. |
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Post by gnr123 on Jan 4, 2012 22:11:07 GMT -5
That's the bad thing with some indy stars, the promoters and owners tell the wrestler's that their really good, and they get Championship reign's and stuff when their wrestling in 1500 dim litted arena's. They develop a ego because of it and think they are great wrestler's.
Than, they go to WWE and they have to train differently and have a character. Sometimes it works (Punk/Bryan) sometimes it doesn't like Kaval.
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BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
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Post by BigWill on Jan 4, 2012 22:15:26 GMT -5
That's the bad thing with some indy stars, the promoters and owners tell the wrestler's that their really good, and they get Championship reign's and stuff when their wrestling in 1500 dim litted arena's. They develop a ego because of it and think they are great wrestler's. Than, they go to WWE and they have to train differently and have a character. Sometimes it works (Punk/Bryan) sometimes it doesn't like Kaval. It's more like, sometimes you're given the opportunity, and sometimes you're told you're not worth the effort. |
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Post by juvijuiceisloose on Jan 4, 2012 22:17:27 GMT -5
That's the bad thing with some indy stars, the promoters and owners tell the wrestler's that their really good, and they get Championship reign's and stuff when their wrestling in 1500 dim litted arena's. They develop a ego because of it and think they are great wrestler's. Than, they go to WWE and they have to train differently and have a character. Sometimes it works (Punk/Bryan) sometimes it doesn't like Kaval. It was working with Kaval. He was over and he was putting on good matches. He was also entertaining with the LayCool thing. He never showed that he had an ego problem. He wasn't expecting to come in and be the WWE Champion right away. He was also in FCW for over a year so he was well acclimated to the WWE style. He was doing everything he had to do and everything he was told to do, and did it well. The WWE were the ones who gave him nothing to do after he won NXT and released him 2 days before Christmas. |
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Post by gnr123 on Jan 4, 2012 22:19:05 GMT -5
WWE just does not like anyone that got made in a different promotion...look at how they treated the majority of stars from the Invasion or ECW, or the women for that matter. Kharma got lucky--the majority of women who had indie experience, aside from Mickie--were not very well known until they got into WWE. They like the idea of building their very own stars. They will always push an internal talent over an external one--I firmly believe this is why they always will try to push a Riley over a Kaval or a model like Candice over Mickie/Ashley over Mickie. Aside from the cosmetic concerns, they want someone they trained that is homegrown and belongs to them completely. They looooved this about Edge, Trish Stratus, Batista, and the Rock. The few guys that started elsewhere and got over are an exception (like Austin, Y2J) most come over and get midcard for life. Bullshit. Hogan came from AWA, Rick Flair came from NWA. CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, Seth Rollins, and Dean Ambrose came from ROH. Eddie Guerreo, Stone Cold, Jericho, Benoit and Booker T all came from WCW. |
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kevin
El Dandy
Posts: 7,503
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Post by kevin on Jan 4, 2012 23:34:31 GMT -5
People just don't read more than the first post. How many times to we have to say same thing over and over? HE DIDN'T ASK FOR HIS RELEASE!!! Well It would help if he had actually had not asked for his release. I am shocked anyone believed him when he claimed in an interview months after the fact that he was fired. Frankly I think it is a real shame he quit like that. The gimmick they had for him of a warrior who is always ready to fight no matter the odds or the situation was really working. Using a proven fan favorite for that gimmick was very smart because when it came time for him to start winning the fans would have eaten it up. I know I would have. It is a real shame it did not work. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 23:37:10 GMT -5
How many times to we have to say same thing over and over? HE DIDN'T ASK FOR HIS RELEASE!!! Well It would help if he had actually had not asked for his release. I am shocked anyone believed him when he claimed in an interview months after the fact that he was fired. Frankly I think it is a real shame he quit like that. The gimmick they had for him of a warrior who is always ready to fight no matter the odds or the situation was really working. Using a proven fan favorite for that gimmick was very smart because when it came time for him to start winning the fans would have eaten it up. I know I would have. It is a real shame it did not work. How do you know he was lying about being fired? |
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I mean, it was Miz's briefcase, but still...
