agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,149
Member is Online
|
Post by agent817 on Dec 3, 2012 12:31:52 GMT -5
I like the approach that Harry Smith and Richie Steamboat took in gaining more experience before being signed. Harry just doesn't have great charisma (and excels as a tag guy). I think Richie has more personality than given credit for. Well, Richie's dad wasn't that good on the mic but had amazing ring presence. Is Richie good in the ring though? I haven't seen him in action much.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 3, 2012 12:51:55 GMT -5
I like the approach that Harry Smith and Richie Steamboat took in gaining more experience before being signed. Harry just doesn't have great charisma (and excels as a tag guy). I think Richie has more personality than given credit for. Well, Richie's dad wasn't that good on the mic but had amazing ring presence. Is Richie good in the ring though? I haven't seen him in action much. decent enough. Not his dad, but he's good enough
|
|
Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,055
|
Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 3, 2012 15:09:41 GMT -5
David Flair honestly was never that good at all. The natural talent just was not there, nor was the drive. I always got the impression that his heart was just not completely into it, and that the only reason he got into it at all was because he felt it was expected of him. As I recall, he had wanted to do other things, but got into wrestling because everyone around him encouraged it. I think this is the truth with a number of the other examples that have been made; a son who was never all that interested in wrestling, but got into it because it was just expected they would. If they never wanted to do it at all, you can't expect them to really be any good. From what I remember, he actually wanted to be a cop.
|
|
|
Post by joebob27 on Dec 3, 2012 15:39:41 GMT -5
I thought David Flair was somewhat mediocre, but really what everyone is going to remember him for was the segment with 'Taker and there's no recovering from that. He had a much better year and a half run in WCW. He had feuds with Ric Flair and Buff Bagwell and his "Who's the father" story line was pretty big time in WCW for many months. He was also apart of the nWo. His WCW run is a lot more memorable than a 5-6 minute beat down segment in the WWF. Most people are going to remember his one or two WWE spots with 'Taker, which were one step short of prison rape. I don't know that many people are going to remember the "who's the dady" skits with Stacy and Stasiak.
|
|
And_5400
Trap-Jaw
Congratulations......Does a bus run through here?
Posts: 490
|
Post by And_5400 on Dec 3, 2012 17:15:30 GMT -5
Ted Dibiase I agree with as he has had alot of chances to show his worth but hasn't lived up to standards, but Michael McGillicutty I think just hasn't had any real opportunties to make up for the horrible Genesis promo. Bray Wyatt on the other hand could be great now that he has a character so I'll wait and see.
|
|
|
Post by notasmark on Dec 3, 2012 17:59:06 GMT -5
He had a much better year and a half run in WCW. He had feuds with Ric Flair and Buff Bagwell and his "Who's the father" story line was pretty big time in WCW for many months. He was also apart of the nWo. His WCW run is a lot more memorable than a 5-6 minute beat down segment in the WWF. Most people are going to remember his one or two WWE spots with 'Taker, which were one step short of prison rape. I don't know that many people are going to remember the "who's the dady" skits with Stacy and Stasiak. Stasiak wasn't involved in that angle... I don't know who's going to remember what but he was involved in a few major feuds on a TV Show seen by millions at the time. I think it's kind of dumping on the guys career if you say people are going to remember a 5 minute angle more than his entire career.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 18:15:55 GMT -5
Fans have higher expectations of the 2nd/3rd generation guys. If two wrestlers, one who has a famous father in the business and one who doesn't, both achieve the same accomplishments and are booked at the same level of the card, the 2nd generation guy will be viewed as a "failure". I agree, David Flair and Crowbar are good examples Crowbar: WCW Tag, WCW Cruiserweight, WCW Hardcore David: WCW US, WCW Tag, NWA Tag Crowbar is seen as having a successful big time career, David Flair is seen as a failure. But David was a bad performer, that's the real reason he's considered a failure. If he was surprisingly good and had the same career, he'd be fondly remembered. Of course, if you're surprisingly good AND have the pedigree, you're gonna get pushed, no doubt.
|
|
|
Post by notasmark on Dec 3, 2012 18:25:52 GMT -5
I agree, David Flair and Crowbar are good examples Crowbar: WCW Tag, WCW Cruiserweight, WCW Hardcore David: WCW US, WCW Tag, NWA Tag Crowbar is seen as having a successful big time career, David Flair is seen as a failure. But David was a bad performer, that's the real reason he's considered a failure. If he was surprisingly good and had the same career, he'd be fondly remembered. Of course, if you're surprisingly good AND have the pedigree, you're gonna get pushed, no doubt. David wasn't as terrible as people say, that type of thing often comes from people who saw him once or twice. When WCW gave him the crazy gimmick he did it really well. They covered up his flaw (The lack of technical ability) and focused on giving him a character and matches that made him comfortable. I'm not saying he's one of the greatest of all time but he was a decent midcarder that added something to the show, hence not a failure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 18:44:16 GMT -5
Unless you try to COMPLETELY distance yourself from your father, you don't have much of a chance. Some of the best second and third generation superstars are the ones who are nothing like their father; Mr. Perfect The Rock Randy Orton Goldust Cody Rhodes Then you have guys who almost bank on their family image...and IMO...it does not work; David Sammartino (he may have had a chance, if daddy didn't involve himself so much) David Flair Ted Dibiase Jr. The Hart Dynasty (I'll get heat for saying this, but using the colors, music and finishers doesn't get you over) Michael McGuilicutty and Husky Harris (they tried to distance them, but to be fair...they're less than average, even by WWE standards) Husky is less than average? Have you seen any of his work lately?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2012 18:54:37 GMT -5
Nobody will ever be as bad as David Flair. Stacy Keibler deflowered his wiener This alone nullifies any attempts to label David as bad. Dude should go into the HoF for tapping that ass.
|
|
TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
|
Post by TGM on Dec 3, 2012 19:07:50 GMT -5
I really wish they'd rename this after Brian Lawler.
|
|
|
Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Dec 3, 2012 19:22:14 GMT -5
Is the reverse of this the "Angelo Poffo Syndrome"?
|
|
mizerable
Fry's dog Seymour
You're the lowest on the totem pole here, Alva. The lowest.
Posts: 23,475
|
Post by mizerable on Dec 3, 2012 19:25:28 GMT -5
Husky is less than average? Have you seen any of his work lately? You mean his stuff as Bray Wyatt? A little bit. But as far as what exposure he's had on a national level, he failed to live up to expectations that were given to him. Like I said, at least they tried to distance him from his father, but his work in NXT was pretty mediocre. I don't give a damn about the stuff he does in FCW, because it's the whole big fish in the little pond mentality. He's still young, but to say he's anything above what his father was, then that's just ridiculous. I thought that was the point of the conversation...not to assume that they're going to be the next coming, because we can't tell whether or not that will happen...but as of everything 95% of the casual audience has seen...as in right now, yes Husky Harris was less than average.
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 3, 2012 19:33:02 GMT -5
Unless you try to COMPLETELY distance yourself from your father, you don't have much of a chance. Some of the best second and third generation superstars are the ones who are nothing like their father; Mr. Perfect The Rock Randy Orton Goldust Cody Rhodes Then you have guys who almost bank on their family image...and IMO...it does not work; David Sammartino (he may have had a chance, if daddy didn't involve himself so much) David Flair Ted Dibiase Jr. The Hart Dynasty (I'll get heat for saying this, but using the colors, music and finishers doesn't get you over) Michael McGuilicutty and Husky Harris (they tried to distance them, but to be fair...they're less than average, even by WWE standards) Husky is less than average? Have you seen any of his work lately? Hell, even on NXT and RAW his (and McG's) ring work was outstanding compared to most. They just fell in the awful period of calling up people with no f***ing clue what to do with them phase and people will never look past it. Yeah their characters did (do for McG) sucked but that is no where near their fault. I'd say the same for Ted Jr. as well. Decent in the ring but they spent all their time trying to make him into his dad and it didn't work. They finally start doing something different with him and he starts getting over, shocker. If you want less than average you look at Sim Snuka, Manu, Tamina, Bo Dallas, Wes Brisco and so on.
|
|
|
Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 3, 2012 23:21:34 GMT -5
Husky is less than average? Have you seen any of his work lately? Hell, even on NXT and RAW his (and McG's) ring work was outstanding compared to most. They just fell in the awful period of calling up people with no f***ing clue what to do with them phase and people will never look past it. Yeah their characters did (do for McG) sucked but that is no where near their fault. I'd say the same for Ted Jr. as well. Decent in the ring but they spent all their time trying to make him into his dad and it didn't work. They finally start doing something different with him and he starts getting over, shocker. If you want less than average you look at Sim Snuka, Manu, Tamina, Bo Dallas, Wes Brisco and so on. Agreed. "David Flair Syndrome" isn't as simple, nor should it be as simple as "not being as good as your father." I mean, even in that case, if you were to use Dusty Rhodes as the rubric to judge Cody, of course he wouldn't measure up as well. I agree with UWF Circa 1986's reference to Law 41 of 48 Laws of Power: If you were to judge Ted Junior or Husky Harris or even Richie Steamboat (even though he hasn't debuted yet) by whether or not they're as good as their father, of course they come off looking bad. But compare them to other wrestlers, though; Ted Junior's a fairly impressive worker (in part because he was with NOAH before he signed with the WWE), Harris is a good worker and a great talker, and Richie has serious potential. David Flair's case, to me, is because his father was who his father was, and not only did David not measure up to him, he couldn't measure up to his peers either. It wasn't just that he couldn't step into a great man's shoes, he didn't seem to even be able to step into the shoes of his co-workers.
|
|
agent817
Fry's dog Seymour
Doesn't Know Whose Ring It Is
Posts: 21,149
Member is Online
|
Post by agent817 on Jan 28, 2013 16:56:58 GMT -5
Okay, this popped into my head, but what about Greg Gagne?
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Jan 28, 2013 17:04:51 GMT -5
Okay, this popped into my head, but what about Greg Gagne? I cannot speak for what people were thinking at the time but watching his stuff on ESPN, he was okay in the ring, just bland as hell on the mic and suffered from getting too much too soon based on his bloodline.
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 28, 2013 17:44:07 GMT -5
Unless you try to COMPLETELY distance yourself from your father, you don't have much of a chance. Some of the best second and third generation superstars are the ones who are nothing like their father; Mr. Perfect The Rock Randy Orton Goldust Cody Rhodes Then you have guys who almost bank on their family image...and IMO...it does not work; David Sammartino (he may have had a chance, if daddy didn't involve himself so much) David Flair Ted Dibiase Jr. The Hart Dynasty (I'll get heat for saying this, but using the colors, music and finishers doesn't get you over) Michael McGuilicutty and Husky Harris (they tried to distance them, but to be fair...they're less than average, even by WWE standards) Husky is less than average? Have you seen any of his work lately? Husky Harris sucked. Bray Wyatt on the other hand... it goes to show you the best 2nd/3rd generation guys tend to be the ones who are nothing like their fathers.
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Jan 28, 2013 17:46:08 GMT -5
Okay, this popped into my head, but what about Greg Gagne? I cannot speak for what people were thinking at the time but watching his stuff on ESPN, he was okay in the ring, just bland as hell on the mic and suffered from getting too much too soon based on his bloodline. he also had the physique of a beanpole.
|
|
Heartbreaker
King Koopa
Is actually Bindi Irwin
RIP Punk's media scrum, Page 54, Muffins, Biting People Bad™ (2022 - 2022)
Posts: 11,846
|
Post by Heartbreaker on Jan 28, 2013 20:04:39 GMT -5
I think the term works best for multi-generational wrestlers who just fail at everything so badly - such as Lacey Von Erich.
|
|