|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 27, 2012 13:21:05 GMT -5
I'd say it's a pretty easy thing to see, and it's the same problem TNA currently faces: neither company has any idea exactly what it's trying to present in terms of women's wrestling.
During the Attitude Era WWF had a lot of success with it's women's division, basically because they outright said "we're trotting these women out as sex objects". Was that the "right thing" to do? I'd certainly say it was pretty wrong on many levels, but if nothing else they were consistent in terms of the overall presentation of the division: fans knew what it was all about.
TNA had a lot of success with it's Knockout's Division for awhile, largely because they took the opposite tact. Yes, they hired a number of good looking women, but for a time they were hiring some of the top women on the indies, and putting attractiveness secondary to ability. Again, fans knew what to expect, the presentation was consistent, and people bought into it.
These days, neither company seems to have any idea WHY they have women's matches. Are they just eye candy? Are they meant to be taken seriously as competitors? Is there enough competition to warrant having a belt and an entire division devoted to them? What's being accomplished?
I don't think either WWE or TNA has the answer right now, and mainstream women's wrestling is suffering for it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 13:29:08 GMT -5
It's not different at all. Both of them are obvious exaggerations. Saying anyone on the roster has no fans would be an obvious exaggeration. An exaggeration used for a different purpose than simply just saying a million instead of a lot. Yeah, if you decide to take it that way. Or you could take it as a big or small number in a factual statement being made even bigger or smaller in a figure of speech through exaggeration, just like in the "a lot/a million" example.
|
|
BigWill
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,619
|
Post by BigWill on Dec 27, 2012 13:32:39 GMT -5
An exaggeration used for a different purpose than simply just saying a million instead of a lot. Yeah, if you decide to take it that way. Or you could take it as a big or small number in a factual statement being made even bigger or smaller in a figure of speech through exaggeration, just like in the "a lot/a million" example. Well that's fine if that's the actual intention, but sometimes I wonder if that's really the case.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 13:43:17 GMT -5
Yeah, if you decide to take it that way. Or you could take it as a big or small number in a factual statement being made even bigger or smaller in a figure of speech through exaggeration, just like in the "a lot/a million" example. Well that's fine if that's the actual intention, but sometimes I wonder if that's really the case. Eh, to me, it's fine as long as you're using it to support your own stance on the issue rather than to attack an opposing stance.
|
|
Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
|
Post by Yami Daimao on Dec 27, 2012 13:53:35 GMT -5
What killed the Divas? {Spoiler} THE ICE AGE!
|
|
Dshuks
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 520
|
Post by Dshuks on Dec 27, 2012 14:49:00 GMT -5
They've been dying out ever since Trish Stratus & Lita retired in 2006. I think that's when WWE just said the hell with it and quit paying much attention to it. Well WWE keeps getting models and not wrestlers. I think the fans do what to see hot girls in the ring but I think above anything they want to see them kick each others ass. If all of your matches end in rollups and are uneventful then why should the fans care? The Diva's division I thought was going back on the right track with AJ, Beth Phoenix, and Kharma. Beth and Kharma are gone and AJ is now just playing 2nd wheel to *Insert main event superstar*. Now a days it's no longer Diva's, it's girls who can take light bumps. LOL, tin this year alone WWE has signed Buggy Nova, Mercedes KV, and Davina Rose. Last year they signed Britani Knight (Paige), Ivelise ( Sofia), Tenille and Su Yung. Fr the past few years WWE has been signing almost as many indy wrestler divas as they have models It also annoys me when people right off non-indy wrestler divas., but speak so fondly about the like sof Trish and Victoria who guess what were models too before they were wrestlers. There have been a number of model types the WWE has signed who have become at least decent wrestlers and if they were on the indy scene people would be raving about them . (Naomi, Alicia, Kaitlyn , Eve Layla, even Audrey seems to be improving at a pretty rapid pace)
|
|
|
Post by Hit Girl on Dec 27, 2012 18:36:35 GMT -5
WWE should remake the Divas division as their version of the X-Division. Smaller cruiserweight-style women's wrestling at a fast pace using talented workers. Divas wrestling has always been rather clumsy. They need to rethink the entire concept.
|
|
Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,170
|
Post by Spider2024 on Dec 27, 2012 18:41:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Epidomy on Dec 27, 2012 22:09:12 GMT -5
I'm starting to think they should just get Beautiful women in a wet t-shirt match, it'll fix everything.
|
|
|
Post by Unaffiliated on Dec 28, 2012 0:41:57 GMT -5
I'm starting to think they should just get Beautiful women in a wet t-shirt match, it'll fix everything. If getting it fixed means getting people to watch instead of take a bathroom break, then that is probably it. I, for one, refuse to believe the 'They don't give the audience a reason to care about the divas' arguments.
|
|
|
Post by kamero00 on Dec 28, 2012 0:45:44 GMT -5
I think LayCool did a ton of damage to the division, along with Kelly Kelly. Both of them sucked every bit of aggressiveness and volatility out of the division. It's been a long time since any of the diva's really felt like they were at war with each other. Kaitlyn and Eve are coming close right now, but it's got to go somewhere. It doesn't help that right now Eve has this gimmick of acting like a smiley-barbie face, but is really a heel deep down. Except they only rarely show that heel side, so mostly she's turned into what she started out mocking. Laycool was the last entertaining thing about that division. When Mickie and Beth won the Diva's title from them, people actually cared.
|
|
Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,720
|
Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Dec 28, 2012 0:52:28 GMT -5
They have two directions they can go to "fix" the divas.
They can either make it all about sex again. Find the hottest girls and give them sexual gimicks and put them in bra and painties matches and hell maybe get a little HLA up in this joint. It'll be sexist, disgusting, and lowest common denominator but it will probably work. But for that to work in today's internet porn age they'd have to go pretty hard at it for it to work to the extent that it would be worth it. They'd probably have to set up a pay site where the divas get naked and maybe just a tiny bit more than naked. Treat them like high priced cam girls pretty much. Thats the only way I see the resexualising thing as working. But that would be pretty gross of them. I wouldn't really complain because hey I personally benefit from it, but my socially progressive side really doesn't want to see it.
Option two is making compelling television with interesting well built storylines and talented workers. Hell maybe they should move away from appealing to men and actually appeal to women. Make the face divas strong role model type characters that young girls can look up to and/or identify with. They don't have to even move away from sexuality completely! Just do it in a classy way. Women CAN be strong AND sexy you know? Beth Pheonix would have been the perfect woman to build a division of that kind around. I think its more than possible to do this, but I don't think the WWE has any reason to try. Like with most "risky" things the WWE "could do" to "fix" something about their company its just a lot easier to not do that in the position they are in. The WWE is safely dominant and they have no reason to take risks. So as long as PG lasts the divas will be in their weird not quite sexualized T and A but not quite serious competition "safe mode" they are in now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 0:53:38 GMT -5
I'd say it's a pretty easy thing to see, and it's the same problem TNA currently faces: neither company has any idea exactly what it's trying to present in terms of women's wrestling. During the Attitude Era WWF had a lot of success with it's women's division, basically because they outright said "we're trotting these women out as sex objects". Was that the "right thing" to do? I'd certainly say it was pretty wrong on many levels, but if nothing else they were consistent in terms of the overall presentation of the division: fans knew what it was all about. TNA had a lot of success with it's Knockout's Division for awhile, largely because they took the opposite tact. Yes, they hired a number of good looking women, but for a time they were hiring some of the top women on the indies, and putting attractiveness secondary to ability. Again, fans knew what to expect, the presentation was consistent, and people bought into it. These days, neither company seems to have any idea WHY they have women's matches. Are they just eye candy? Are they meant to be taken seriously as competitors? Is there enough competition to warrant having a belt and an entire division devoted to them? What's being accomplished? I don't think either WWE or TNA has the answer right now, and mainstream women's wrestling is suffering for it. It's that whole "Smart. Sexy. Powerful." thing. They want these women to be world-class athletes that are a 10 in the looks department and are great at PR. How many women are there like that in the wreslting industry? In the world for that matter?
|
|
Dshuks
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 520
|
Post by Dshuks on Dec 28, 2012 1:17:41 GMT -5
For all the naysaying in this thread I actually think theres been flashes of good booking for the divas in the past couple of months. The start of the Eve vs Kaitlyn/Layla feud was actually petty good and the divas were getting mic time + backstage segments, and the feud had some real momentum to it. Then Kaitlyn was arrested and the feud/division lost a lot of steam. I also really like the whole Aj/Kaitlyn thing they have going on in the background. One thing they do need to do is have the Diva's be more physical . Lita and Trish got over laregly because they were not afraid to to big spots our compete in hardcore matches.
Lastly I feel they need to make some roster changes. 1. Stop having Aksanna and Tamina ( especially Tamina) wrestle they really suck and drag the divas matches down. 2. Bring Naomi into the division full time. She is crazy athletic, and needs to be wrestling as much as possible so she can really get good. 3. Brign up at least Paige and maybe Audrey , Emma, or Sasha in 2013. Paige si ready right now , Audrey has a lot of potential, and Emma and Sasha just need a little more seasoning.
Honestly in terms of youth and potential the division is pretty stacked right now. The core they have now has tons of potential AJ, Kailtyn, Natalya, Layla, Alicia, Naomi , Eve, Paige, Audrey, Emma (Tenille), and Sasha (Mercedes KV) would be an awesome division.
|
|
|
Post by Epidomy on Dec 28, 2012 1:35:25 GMT -5
Give a Diva a gimmick thats so good they'll have to love her.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 2:18:58 GMT -5
If they aren't going to present the women as sex objects, then they should have some sort of character, just like the men do. Else it's outright boring. Right now AJ has a character, Eve barely does, and that's it. Any of the others could be booked to do or say anything, then at the last minute have it changed and pasted onto a different diva and no one would notice, because they really ARE the same.
It's not just a matter of them not having characters because they're not doing anything lately. Most of them have done stuff at one point or another yet still have nothing. Some have been there for quite a few years and still have no personality.
|
|
|
Post by Epidomy on Dec 28, 2012 4:18:13 GMT -5
If they aren't going to present the women as sex objects, then they should have some sort of character, just like the men do. Else it's outright boring. Right now AJ has a character, Eve barely does, and that's it. Any of the others could be booked to do or say anything, then at the last minute have it changed and pasted onto a different diva and no one would notice, because they really ARE the same. It's not just a matter of them not having characters because they're not doing anything lately. Most of them have done stuff at one point or another yet still have nothing. Some have been there for quite a few years and still have no personality. exactly.
|
|