The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,274
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 27, 2012 13:50:24 GMT -5
A boom period is really the only thing that will get TNAs ratings up.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 27, 2012 13:51:42 GMT -5
Even as a lifelong Hulkamaniac I can't go THAT far in praising Hogan, as I feel his on-air presence hasn't been much of a help to TNA (Hogan is an icon from an age where the presentation of wrestling shows was infinitely different from what it is now, and it shows), but I'll certainly agree that most accounts of his backstage influence in TNA since the booking team change haven't had me thinking "he's ruining everything!". Even if the execution is found to be lacking, Hulk-freaking-Hogan is still involving himself in a storyline to emphasize that Austin Aries is an upper card/main event player in TNA. That's not a negligible point to make.
So while I still think that as an on-air presence Hogan isn't what TNA needs right now, I also don't see him as a major obstacle to the company growing. Like I said before, and like Ric said more concisely, TNA must stick to a major identity and go full-bore with it, not change horses midstream every two years because they're not pulling in 2.0's in the ratings.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,032
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 27, 2012 16:35:56 GMT -5
Potatoes and kale.
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Dec 27, 2012 17:24:39 GMT -5
Hogan's involvement at this point could be limited to creative and helping guys backstage and it would help so much. I'm completely on board with him giving Roode the rub and Aries as well. There are now two credible main event talents that weren't used as such before he got there. Honorable mention to Daniels, too. Most could buy him as World Champion.
To me, he's never really added anything as an on-screen personality. I think hitching your wagon to Hogan as a feature of your programming in 2012 can, ultimately, be a bit of a determent than something that enhances your company's image. He's not really able to reinvent himself like Sting has, for example.
Maybe this is a much longer version of saying a boom period, but what I've always thought is that they need to do more creatively. With as many comparisons to WCW as TNA will get, I think there is one that may be valid here. WCW really exploded with one huge angle: The NWO. TNA does not need to recreate the NWO, but they need something that gets white hot and get some eyes on it. Then, they need to be able to take that white hot angle and branch it off.
What was the next hottest thing that WCW ever did? Goldberg. And Goldberg being cemented as the new big player in WCW ran right through the NWO. Or how the Raven/Tommy Dreamer feud ran through about 10 other people before it was finally ended. In the end, you had an epic feud that people paid to see end and it left a lot of people higher on the card then when it started.
I think something like this will draw the fans in, and with a proper payoff you could add a small amount to your fanbase on a permanent basis.
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Post by notasmark on Dec 27, 2012 17:40:14 GMT -5
Heres what I think of each option:
Promotion - Easier said then done and it's easy for everyone to vote this as top but think of the millions of dollars that has gone into TNA in terms of advertising. Didn't they have a billboard with Hulk Hogan in Times Square in late 09? That type of thing is pricey. They've done as much as they can in terms of advertising.
The Road - People just aren't interested in wrestling anymore. Why would you go to the Arena to see TNA live when you can stay at home and watch for free? Apart from meeting your favourite wrestlers what is the draw in going to a TNA House Show? There isn't really one
Big stars - You have a few guys available, Batista and Goldberg are available but they're probably not worth the price. What they need is a big star that is a hard worker like Kurt Angle was in 06 for them. Someone who is going to attend every house show and talk show and try and help build the brand
Rid of older guys - Absolutely not and I laughed that 2 people voted this. Hulk Hogan is a legendary figure he is the Michael Jordan of wrestling. Why would you not use a guy like Hogan or a guy like Sting when they are house hold names? Getting rid of them is probably the stupidest thing they could ever do.
New announcers - How would this help? People don't tune in for the announcers. They tune out if the announcers are bad. Tenay and Taz don't do a bad job and they have a nice mix of comedy and insight. They're great.
Money to attend Impact - No, Once you do that you run the risk of doing TV in front of 200-300 fans. What fans are going to pay to watch Impact night in and night out at Universal? Not many. If you take TNA on the road and try charge for tickets you're going to need at minimum 1500-2000 people to actually profit
Now as for what TNA needs to do? Market your product differently to WWE. What's the real difference between TNA and WWE in terms of content? There isn't much, TNA is a little edgier that's it.
TNA needs to do something completely different. Not an "Attitude Era" they need something that is going to draw tons of people. Sadly there is nothing fresh in wrestling hence the slump.
The people who said wrestling boom are also right. Wrestling right now is uncool and cool people aren't really fans. Celebrities aren't coming out and saying "Wrestling is awesome come support it" like they were in the 90's. Wrestling is seen as very uncool in multiple markets
If you had a guy like a 2012 version of Mike Tyson come out and endorse pro wrestling you'd have people more eager to come check it out. If Kobe Bryant said TNA is the best and you need to check them out every night fans would pick up.
When wrestling is seen as cool again TNA will grow as will WWE, ROH and every other independent in the US. Until that boom TNA will have very minimal growth.
People will always say "Push Joe, Push Aries, Push Daniels, Push AJ, Phase out guys like Hardy, Van Dam, Hogan and Sting" and it's a really dumb thing to say. A majority of people aren't going to flock to the TNA product because a young guy is on top. Perfect example is Roode, Aries, AJ's multiple reigns, Joe on top. The ratings didn't change.
TNA needs to give the fans something completely different. WWE's hottest peak was when they did something different to WCW. ECW rose to a national level because they did something different.
A different champion or a new wrestler is going to pop a rating for a week or two but going somewhere completely different would pop a rating for a long time.
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Big L
Grimlock
Posts: 13,883
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Post by Big L on Dec 27, 2012 20:37:51 GMT -5
Go on the road more
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,073
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Post by TGM on Dec 27, 2012 21:33:09 GMT -5
Are they making money? What's been on TV for the past year has been great, so as long as they're making money, they should be content as the #2.
WCW were #2 for years and they were a perfectly cromulent wrestling company.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2012 23:24:01 GMT -5
Go for an extended period without a heel stable that takes up a large amount of airtime while doing very little that is entertaining.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Dec 28, 2012 1:01:21 GMT -5
I think TNA needs to focus on being the alternative. The first few years I loved TNA becuase it wasn't the HHH and Randy Orton show. So much of the allure of TNA has faded since, Joe's winning streak came to an end. Once Angle came to the company it's all be downhill. I can't even bare to watch it anymore and when I do it strikes me as stupid. The last straw for me was James Storm not being the one to take the title from Roode. And instead of solidifying the new hot talent who did take the title from Roode he dropped the belt to Hardy and turned heel again.
There is nothing alternative about it. I miss King of the Mountain, I miss the real X division, I miss the X cup. It's just a bunch of ex wwe/wcw guys running the show and it just isn't different enough to catch a wider audience.
frankly imo it's just dumb. It's dumb to see Bull ray and Brooke hogan in a love angle and pretend guidos doing bro offs.
dumb...
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Post by Andy Martin on Dec 29, 2012 8:04:08 GMT -5
Do we know how much influence/control Hogan actually HAS at this point?
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Post by ________ has left the building on Dec 29, 2012 8:15:06 GMT -5
I think TNA needs to focus on being the alternative. The first few years I loved TNA becuase it wasn't the HHH and Randy Orton show. So much of the allure of TNA has faded since, Joe's winning streak came to an end. Once Angle came to the company it's all be downhill. I can't even bare to watch it anymore and when I do it strikes me as stupid. The last straw for me was James Storm not being the one to take the title from Roode. And instead of solidifying the new hot talent who did take the title from Roode he dropped the belt to Hardy and turned heel again. There is nothing alternative about it. I miss King of the Mountain, I miss the real X division, I miss the X cup. It's just a bunch of ex wwe/wcw guys running the show and it just isn't different enough to catch a wider audience. frankly imo it's just dumb. It's dumb to see Bull ray and Brooke hogan in a love angle and pretend guidos doing bro offs. dumb... Preach. What drove me to watching TNA was that it was an alternative not being WWE lite.
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Post by CourtesyFlush on Dec 29, 2012 11:43:31 GMT -5
Other: it's just like sim city. U get to a certain point n nothing more can be done. Blow the crap up n start over or don't, who cares. I'm gonna watch the BS regardless.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 16:17:24 GMT -5
1. Fire the f*** out of whoever's designing their merchandise.
2. I think a good thing for them to do is stop following the model of a wrestling show that was established during the Attitude Era. Clearly going 2 hours, changing to Monday, bringing in Hogan didn't really do anything dramatically different for their business because they were trying to recapture a paradigm from the late 90's.
They really need to re-evaluate how they schedule their wrestlers and create 'seasons' for their show. They already film out of a studio - so why not? Each year they sit down and write out a rough outline for 2 separate main stories (with a few B, C stories that aren't quite as intricate or dramatic) that have two arcs. First quarter they roll out Story 1 and finish arc 1 in the third month, with a tease of the second arc at the end of that third month. Second quarter they roll out the next story (utilizing different wrestlers) - same thing. Third quarter of the year, they revisit the story from Q1 and in the 4th Quarter the Q2 story gets resolved.
When the Q1 wrestlers aren't being used, they can fill indy dates (while still promoting TNA at those events) and prepare for the Q3 tapings. That way TNA's presence is felt in a touring capacity (with their talent taking indy dates on behalf of TNA) without having to actually take the show on the road. Ideally if the talent can win over the indy crowd and get them to watch the show, you'll grow a bigger audience.
This would also mean they'd have to have their s*** planned out at the beginning of the year AND within 3 months people would get a partial story arc that would conclude next season (cutting down on the "wait and see" drop off). Stories would be complete, but not overly drawn out and it would reduce character fatigue (Oh My God THIS GUY AGAIN!!?!?!?).
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Dec 29, 2012 16:49:32 GMT -5
better booking and marketing
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Post by notasmark on Dec 29, 2012 17:12:20 GMT -5
Do we know how much influence/control Hogan actually HAS at this point? It was always stated by people in TNA that Hogan just sat in on booking meetings and gave ideas. The internet took that as meaning that Bischoff, Hogan and Dixie are running the shows and will blame any bad idea on one of the three. I'd be willing to bet my house on the fact that Hogan's idea's need to be cleared before they actually happen though.
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Post by Straight Edge Scrotum on Dec 29, 2012 17:57:37 GMT -5
I think TNA needs to focus on being the alternative. The first few years I loved TNA becuase it wasn't the HHH and Randy Orton show. So much of the allure of TNA has faded since, Joe's winning streak came to an end. Once Angle came to the company it's all be downhill. I can't even bare to watch it anymore and when I do it strikes me as stupid. The last straw for me was James Storm not being the one to take the title from Roode. And instead of solidifying the new hot talent who did take the title from Roode he dropped the belt to Hardy and turned heel again. There is nothing alternative about it. I miss King of the Mountain, I miss the real X division, I miss the X cup. It's just a bunch of ex wwe/wcw guys running the show and it just isn't different enough to catch a wider audience. frankly imo it's just dumb. It's dumb to see Bull ray and Brooke hogan in a love angle and pretend guidos doing bro offs. dumb... I fully agree.
One of the things that got my attention way back was the six-sided ring. And once I tuned in, I saw tons of stuff that I just wasn't seeing anywhere else. There were great matches, great character IN ADDITION to a huge international flavor, yearly tournaments like the Super X Cup, innovative matches like Ultimate X and such. And the basics were all still there, including a few big names that had gotten big BEFORE coming to TNA.
I think a small step back to those elements would eventually make for a big step forward for the entire promotion.
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Post by arrx on Dec 29, 2012 18:27:19 GMT -5
Dixie Carter needs to give up ownership of TNA, that hag is keeping TNA from greater things.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 30, 2012 5:10:30 GMT -5
Dixie Carter needs to give up ownership of TNA, that hag is keeping TNA from greater things. Yeah! She should totally leave as she's the problem with TNA, and take all of her family's money with her while she's at it. Just like WCW without Ted Turner, the sky will be the limit for TNA without Dixie, as a loss making wrestling company is such a hugely attractive proposition for other investors.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 12:04:06 GMT -5
They're pretty much 90% where they could be. This isn't 1998 and they're never going to get 5.0 ratings or 100 000+ PPV buy rates.
They could drop a few older guys and stop with some of the silly storylines. But overall, not much is going to change.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 13:06:07 GMT -5
They're pretty much 90% where they could be. This isn't 1998 and they're never going to get 5.0 ratings or 100 000+ PPV buy rates. They could drop a few older guys and stop with some of the silly storylines. But overall, not much is going to change. I agree. It is a wide spread decline in North American wrestling, not just TNA. The WWE used to draw anywhere from 4.5-5 million viewers for Raw, and now it's down to 3.5-4 million (give or take) most weeks. If the WWE is losing a million viewers in less than a year, then expecting TNA to grow at the same time is unrealistic. Even in PPV's, the WWE draws well when Lesnar is featured, or The Rock comes back. Otherwise not much (by their standards). I think a more reality based show would help. It may not help in the ratings or PPV buys, but overall the product would improve. That's why the BFG Series was so good. It was logical, realistic, and there was an end game in mind. If the WWE is presenting itself as a live action variety show, then TNA would be better served to present itself as a scripted version of MMA with wrestling elements involved. Bischoff mentioned in one of the DVD's that in '95-96, he wanted to be different from the WWF. They had cartoony characters, so he went with real names. They had cartoony storylines, so he went with more reality based stories (nWo). It might be time to repeat history here. Don't try to duplicate the nWo, but be different than the WWE.
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