Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Dec 29, 2012 20:21:59 GMT -5
The same people burying Christian right now and saying new talent needs a shot will in a few years be saying that the new talent sucks and they wish a guy like Christian was still around. Younger does not equal better.
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Post by lewis1711 on Dec 29, 2012 20:26:37 GMT -5
I don't see his age as a factor yet. He is still very athletic and can wrestle a hell of a match. Not that people here even seem to care, given how much the undertakers plodding performances are praised.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Dec 29, 2012 21:08:42 GMT -5
The shoulder injury sounded like something he could/would have worked through if he were at all important, so I'm not sure he's injury-prone. I know he's in his late 30s now, but until the torn pec a couple years back, he'd sustained only one major injury that required any time off in the previous 12 years of his career (his back in '04). Anyway, I no longer care enough to argue with his detractors about the guy's worth (and I suspect many would change their tune if he weren't so underutilized), but age/injuries never stopped WWE from pushing Edge, Orton, Batista, Hunter, Michaels, et al. His problem will be what it's always been: a lack of support from the right people backstage. Simple as that. A lack of support from people who have given him a chance and seen that he didnt have the same appeal as his tag team partners. WWE brain trust dont always get things right, but in this case, they do appear to have That's a load of crap. When the pushed Edge as a single face, the crowd's weren't reacting it to him, even though they were pushing the hell out of him from day 1. It it took his affair with Lita to make him a legit main eventer. And he was the one that was injury prone. He seemed to be getting injured often, even though Christian was the guy taking bigger bumps. One only has to look at the ratings whenever Orton is champ to see that his main event runs were lackluster. Sure, they both deserved to be the main event but so did Christian. If WWE pushed him like TNA did, he could've been one of the elite main eventers 05-10 or longer.
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Post by BiloxiParish on Dec 29, 2012 23:19:52 GMT -5
Anyway, I no longer care enough to argue with his detractors about the guy's worth (and I suspect many would change their tune if he weren't so underutilized) 100% this. Like how bats*** crazy the board went over Mark Henry after his push. Or David Otunga. Or even Jinder Mahal. I think we all forget how much of a mark we are deep down inside and how the WWE machine has a huge role in deciding who we like or not. What I have no recollection of anybody ever digging Otunga or Mahal
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 4:51:21 GMT -5
100% this. Like how bats*** crazy the board went over Mark Henry after his push. Or David Otunga. Or even Jinder Mahal. I think we all forget how much of a mark we are deep down inside and how the WWE machine has a huge role in deciding who we like or not. What I have no recollection of anybody ever digging Otunga or Mahal All it took for Otunga was to wear argyle sweaters, slurp a coffee mug, and give legal advice that never actually does any good to get a bit of a following around here, because of his "interesting character".
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Post by YiHammer on Dec 30, 2012 5:21:02 GMT -5
Otunga was a good character, nobody here liked his matches. His character was great in the role he was given.
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Marvelously Mediocre
Fry's dog Seymour
Beggin' for a little SWAGGAH!
Haha. What a story Mark.
Posts: 21,224
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Post by Marvelously Mediocre on Dec 30, 2012 11:56:05 GMT -5
What I have no recollection of anybody ever digging Otunga or Mahal All it took for Otunga was to wear argyle sweaters, slurp a coffee mug, and give legal advice that never actually does any good to get a bit of a following around here, because of his "interesting character". Because that was/is a good gimmick. He's a bad wrestler but I'm perfectly happy with him being in WWE's midcard with a gimmick like that. Christian doesn't entertain me in the least for reasons I've previously stated. It's not because 'the machine' is making me think that, it's because I've never liked him. He was in the main event feud on Smackdown for a good part of 2011 so you'd think it'd give him ample opportunity to make me give a shit but I don't.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 30, 2012 15:31:34 GMT -5
I think people are arguing in circles in this thread. Of course Christian might have made it as a main eventer if WWE pushed him strong and got behind him (almost anyone could), I think the anti-Christian in the thread are just trying to say that Christian to them isn't main-event material.
Like if you measure on Bret Hart's scale of 1-10 for wrestling ability, promos, and look the anti-Christian people would probably acknowledge he's pretty high up in wrestling ability but his promos and look leave a ton to be desired.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Dec 30, 2012 15:39:31 GMT -5
What I have no recollection of anybody ever digging Otunga or Mahal All it took for Otunga was to wear argyle sweaters, slurp a coffee mug, and give legal advice that never actually does any good to get a bit of a following around here, because of his "interesting character". Look at the roster as a whole, especially the faces. Any character is an improvement.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 30, 2012 15:49:41 GMT -5
I think people are arguing in circles in this thread. Of course Christian might have made it as a main eventer if WWE pushed him strong and got behind him (almost anyone could), I think the anti-Christian in the thread are just trying to say that Christian to them isn't main-event material. I don't buy this at all, because if the key to making profitable main eventers was just to get behind them and keep pushing, then the WWE would have an entire roster full of them. You have to have the talent to make those pushes work. And that's not something booking can do for you.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 30, 2012 16:31:06 GMT -5
I think people are arguing in circles in this thread. Of course Christian might have made it as a main eventer if WWE pushed him strong and got behind him (almost anyone could), I think the anti-Christian in the thread are just trying to say that Christian to them isn't main-event material. I don't buy this at all, because if the key to making profitable main eventers was just to get behind them and keep pushing, then the WWE would have an entire roster full of them. You have to have the talent to make those pushes work. And that's not something booking can do for you. I didn't say a profitable main eventer, I said a "main eventer." As in an accepted main eventer that doesn't look out of place. WWE could make just about anyone on their roster into an "accepted" main eventer where it wouldn't look ridiculous. Profitable main eventer is something entirely different.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 30, 2012 16:41:11 GMT -5
I don't buy this at all, because if the key to making profitable main eventers was just to get behind them and keep pushing, then the WWE would have an entire roster full of them. You have to have the talent to make those pushes work. And that's not something booking can do for you. I didn't say a profitable main eventer, I said a "main eventer." As in an accepted main eventer that doesn't look out of place. WWE could make just about anyone on their roster into an "accepted" main eventer where it wouldn't look ridiculous. Profitable main eventer is something entirely different. I don't really see any difference between the two because in most cases, the only people you'll find in the main event are people who the WWE finds to be profitable. That's why Cena (and Punk, whenever Cena's not available) headlines most - if not all - of the pay-per-views. And why guys like Orton, Mysterio, Sheamus, Kane, etc. (who might not be as profitable as Cena or Punk, but at least sell merchandise or whatever) are a notch below them. What's the point in making a guy a main eventer in the first place if you can't make any money off him? Maybe WWE's not interested in pushing Christian harder than usual, because he could never really offer them any of that on the occasions that they did, which is why he is where he's at now. A decent hand in the midcard to make newer guys look better, but not in the main event.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 30, 2012 16:48:27 GMT -5
I didn't say a profitable main eventer, I said a "main eventer." As in an accepted main eventer that doesn't look out of place. WWE could make just about anyone on their roster into an "accepted" main eventer where it wouldn't look ridiculous. Profitable main eventer is something entirely different. I don't really see any difference between the two because in most cases, the only people you'll find in the main event are people who the WWE finds to be profitable. That's why Cena (and Punk, whenever Cena's not available) headlines most - if not all - of the pay-per-views. And why guys like Orton, Mysterio, Sheamus, Kane, etc. (who might not be as profitable as Cena or Punk, but at least sell merchandise or whatever) are a notch below them. What's the point in making a guy a main eventer in the first place if you can't make any money off him? Maybe WWE's not interested in pushing Christian harder than usual, because he could never really offer them any of that on the occasions that they did, which is why he is where he's at now. A decent hand in the midcard to make newer guys look better, but not in the main event. Well there is a difference between the two: there's a huge list of accepted main eventers guys who can wrestle a title match without it being ridiculous--guys like Miz, Ziggler, Barret, Del Rio. None of these guys are particularly profitable but they're accepted because of how they've been presented and pushed. And I'm not sure why you think I'm disagreeing with your opinions of Christian--I'm definitely agreeing more with the anti-Christian crowd in this thread as I don't see anything particularly outstanding about him that warrants him being considered "wasted" as a midcarder.
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Arrow
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,122
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Post by Arrow on Dec 30, 2012 16:57:37 GMT -5
Well there is a difference between the two: there's a huge list of accepted main eventers guys who can wrestle a title match without it being ridiculous--guys like Miz, Ziggler, Barret, Del Rio. None of these guys are particularly profitable but they're accepted because of how they've been presented and pushed. And I'm not sure why you think I'm disagreeing with your opinions of Christian--I'm definitely agreeing more with the anti-Christian crowd in this thread as I don't see anything particularly outstanding about him that warrants him being considered "wasted" as a midcarder. I don't think you can really call any of those guys main eventers. Ziggler and Del Rio (maybe Miz) are at the cusp of it, but that's about as far as they go. But that's irrelevant right now, I suppose. We may agree on Christian himself, but I just have a problem whenever someone says "anybody can be a main eventer if WWE got behind them/pushed them hard enough". Not only because I don't believe it's true, but becase that's something that's constantly brought up in Christian's defense/favor in discussions like this.
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Post by KofiMania on Dec 30, 2012 17:02:25 GMT -5
Well there is a difference between the two: there's a huge list of accepted main eventers guys who can wrestle a title match without it being ridiculous--guys like Miz, Ziggler, Barret, Del Rio. None of these guys are particularly profitable but they're accepted because of how they've been presented and pushed. And I'm not sure why you think I'm disagreeing with your opinions of Christian--I'm definitely agreeing more with the anti-Christian crowd in this thread as I don't see anything particularly outstanding about him that warrants him being considered "wasted" as a midcarder. I don't think you can really call any of those guys main eventers. Ziggler and Del Rio (maybe Miz) are at the cusp of it, but that's about as far as they go. But that's irrelevant right now, I suppose. We may agree on Christian himself, but I just have a problem whenever someone says "anybody can be a main eventer if WWE got behind them/pushed them hard enough". Not only because I don't believe it's true, but becase that's something that's constantly brought up in Christian's defense/favor in discussions like this. Just about everyone that is in the WWE can though unless there's something extremely glaring about them that just wouldn't work. I'm not saying they can become Cena or Punk levels of main eventer but just about anyone can be the guy that chases the title and gets a couple of main event matches.
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Post by lewis1711 on Dec 30, 2012 20:07:22 GMT -5
Christian was very over with his WHC title win. If it were anyone else with that much momentum, they'd have kept them on top for a while.
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Post by BiloxiParish on Dec 30, 2012 20:47:06 GMT -5
If you call Seagull Pops over
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
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Post by 543Y2J on Dec 30, 2012 21:01:11 GMT -5
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Post by Nic Nemeth on Dec 30, 2012 21:14:32 GMT -5
I stopped caring about him after his 2011 title win and subsequent loss.
The fact he needed Edge to retire, then interfere in the match just to win the title, and then have him lose it two days later to Randy Orton and turn heel despite how over he was as a face was the biggest slap in the face for a Christian fan.
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543Y2J
Patti Mayonnaise
Seventh level .gif Master
Posts: 38,794
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Post by 543Y2J on Dec 30, 2012 21:20:48 GMT -5
I stopped caring about him after his 2011 title win and subsequent loss. The fact he needed Edge to retire, then interfere in the match just to win the title, and then have him lose it two days later to Randy Orton and turn heel despite how over he was as a face was the biggest slap in the face for a Christian fan. Before Edge retired they were hinting and planning a match and feud between the two possibly at Summerslam or after. An example of one of these segments was when Edge left the locker room after talking to Christian, but left the WHC only for Christian to pick it up and look at it while the camera zoomed in on him (among other segments). I will try and find a video. They were going to eventually push Christian to the main event whether Edge retired or not www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK2IzxoI2B0
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