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Post by The Gambler Fan on Dec 30, 2012 15:41:38 GMT -5
I will take him over Christian Ponder. If Tebow leaves the Jets I wouldn't mind in in the Vikings.
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Post by Mayonnaise on Dec 30, 2012 15:48:55 GMT -5
I don't think he's as bad as people say but he's nowhere near good when it comes to technique. I think with his skills and attitude, if a team would put the time into developing him, he'd be a decent QB. Just with the media attention and being on clubs with horrid QB play in front of him, he hasn't gotten that shot.
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Juice
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Post by Juice on Dec 30, 2012 15:53:02 GMT -5
yes he really is that bad and all because of one lucky throw against the steelers everyone thinks he's amazing The worst qb in the league making the best defense look like chumps. We never recovered from that, see this season for proof.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Dec 30, 2012 16:09:42 GMT -5
I will take him over Christian Ponder. If Tebow leaves the Jets I wouldn't mind in in the Vikings. No
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Post by Cyno on Dec 30, 2012 16:12:31 GMT -5
yes he really is that bad and all because of one lucky throw against the steelers everyone thinks he's amazing The worst qb in the league making the best defense look like chumps. We never recovered from that, see this season for proof. Steelers Defense isn't what it used to be and hasn't been for the past couple of years. They've gotten old and injured. And they just can't play in Denver. They got torched by the Peyton Broncos.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Dec 30, 2012 16:32:09 GMT -5
he's not good per se, but he does make plays when they are needed
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Dec 30, 2012 16:53:31 GMT -5
He won't hurt you with bad decisions, but he's not going to be that much of a help with his arm. I'll agree with everyone that said he needs work developing his mechanics. He's never going to be someone that is going to torch you with the deep ball, but he's someone that can he good enough with short-mid range passes and get you down the field....with a lot of work.
I think if he ends up in Jacksonville, that'll be the end of it. They'll throw him out there to start, but he's going to get murdered behind that line. If flops there, he's a backup at best.
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Sicho100
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Easily Confused.
Posts: 5,962
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Post by Sicho100 on Dec 30, 2012 17:56:23 GMT -5
He had the worst completion percentage last year of anyone with over 22 attempts. That is bad. That's worse than the likes of Caleb Hanie and Blaine Gabbert. Those two are absolutely terrible. And Tebow completed even less of his passes than them.
The argument is that Tebow "just wins." The problem with that is, he doesn't. He is 9-7 as a starter when counting his playoff games. Vince Young is 31-19 as a starter and couldn't land a job this year - because he sucks. Rex Grossman is 25-22 (a little below Tebow in percentage, but a much larger sample size), and is barely able to be a third-string QB. The guy people have been saying should be benched for Tebow, Mark Sanchez, after today is 33-29 is the regular season (37-31 when counting the playoffs), again just barely below Tebow in percentage. Yet, for some reason, the Sanchize is not seen as someone who "just wins," while Tebow is. And that is ridiculous.
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Big L
Grimlock
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Post by Big L on Dec 30, 2012 18:09:44 GMT -5
I don't think he's as bad as people say but he's nowhere near good when it comes to technique. I think with his skills and attitude, if a team would put the time into developing him, he'd be a decent QB. Just with the media attention and being on clubs with horrid QB play in front of him, he hasn't gotten that shot.
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Post by Father Dougal McGuire on Dec 30, 2012 18:17:45 GMT -5
For 55 minutes in the game he is garbage, but it very good in the last 5 minutes. To be honest I would love to see him in the CFL. It would give him some time to develop and the CFL seems to fit his style of play.
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Post by WorkingInAColeMine on Dec 30, 2012 18:20:37 GMT -5
He is awful enough that we shouldn't ever talk about him.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Development through Destruction.
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Dec 30, 2012 18:22:47 GMT -5
For those talking about Tebow and the Pittsburgh defense. The line had injuries and Clark couldn't play because of the altitude and his Sickle Cell Anemia.
Not a fair judge of talent.
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kolani
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Post by kolani on Dec 30, 2012 21:11:37 GMT -5
He benefited a lot from being an agile, mobile quarterback who can run the ball in the SEC when a lot of the other teams in the SEC didn't prepare for that kind of quarterback. The SEC had been a pretty traditional division, quarterback staying in the pocket kind of affair. I don't think he'd do near as well now that almost every other team has a mobile quarterback now.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2012 21:32:51 GMT -5
He benefited a lot from being an agile, mobile quarterback who can run the ball in the SEC when a lot of the other teams in the SEC didn't prepare for that kind of quarterback. The SEC had been a pretty traditional division, quarterback staying in the pocket kind of affair. I don't think he'd do near as well now that almost every other team has a mobile quarterback now. Didn't Cam Newton play pretty much the same way? I think that type of QB can still work well when defenses are prepared more for ground and pound still. You just have to have the line and receivers to run that type of offense, which Tebow had.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 30, 2012 22:00:51 GMT -5
He won't hurt you with bad decisions, but he's not going to be that much of a help with his arm. I'll agree with everyone that said he needs work developing his mechanics. He's never going to be someone that is going to torch you with the deep ball, but he's someone that can he good enough with short-mid range passes and get you down the field....with a lot of work. I think if he ends up in Jacksonville, that'll be the end of it. They'll throw him out there to start, but he's going to get murdered behind that line. If flops there, he's a backup at best. I think it's actually the opposite as far as his throwing goes. He could actually throw a decent deep ball, but his screen passes and other short-middle range stuff was garbage, which is why his completion percentage is so low. He lacks the precision and finesse to be a reliable passer, but his arm is strong enough to throw it deep well. A lot of his wins last year were also pure luck and great defense keeping them in the game. Matt Prater having an absolute beast of a leg kicking FG's from ~60 yards away and Marion Barber being the dumbest player in the world is the difference between the Broncos backing into the playoffs at 8-8 and being nowhere close at 6-10.
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Lupin the Third
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Post by Lupin the Third on Dec 30, 2012 22:10:14 GMT -5
I think if the NFL had their minor league still (NFL Europe), he'd probably be over there, and that might help him improve.
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Post by Beets by Schrute on Dec 30, 2012 22:15:39 GMT -5
If it is based on his performance this year, I wouldn't call it fair. I will admit the trade from Denver threw him off.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 30, 2012 22:18:46 GMT -5
Could he find himself on a team that he can help win? Sure, but that team better have 3 things:
1) A good offensive line. His poor mechanics means that he does not get rid of the ball as fast as most NFL QBs do, especially the elites. Last season they showed side by side tape of Tebow and Brady throwing the ball and Brady's pass was already halfway to its destination before Tebow finished his wind up. He is not alone in that, mind you, so I will leave it at that.
2) Good, fast receivers. Tebow's one strength as a passer is he has a howitzer for an arm. Put a real burner or two out there that can actually keep up with those bombs and you really have something.
3) A strong running game. Tebow really isn't that good at short passes.....AT ALL. Since you cannot simply throws bombs every time out you need a reliable way to gain short to mid distance gains.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2012 23:26:40 GMT -5
If Tebow is awful then half the QBs in the league are awful. He's not a great passer but he very seldom will make a bad play. One thing that people forget about his accuracy is that many of his missed passes were aired out to the sidelines when his receivers failed to get open. He does that a lot, and so that makes his accuracy go down, despite the fact that he's got respectable stats otherwise. He doesn't force passes. He'd make a good game manager QB for a defensive-oriented team--say San Fran, for instance. Many of those passes had Tebow throwing it into double coverage or well off into the sidelines when there was a receiver there as well. He does that a lot too. There were a lot of passes that weren't thrown well or weren't smart decisions that somehow his receivers came down with, despite being in double coverage or having the ball under thrown. He throws his fair share of bad passes, you can't put everything on his receivers. Last season, Tebow's hallmark was playing erratic for 3 quarters and suddenly breaking out in the fourth quarter and throwing a few great passes. You don't get a passer rating 28th out of the 34 QBs that started if you rarely make bad decisions. Tebow was also thrown out into a team that hadn't made proper adjustments for him. He was never intended to be the starter and John Fox was never truly confident in his abilities. He walked into a team without his mechanics fully developed and without proper tutelage under a veteran quarterback, and for a guy with his style, that kind of thing was very important. A froggy coaching staff can utterly hamper a QB with considerable skill. Look at what the Ravens' mismanagement of their Offensive coaches has done to undermine Flacco this season.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 30, 2012 23:50:52 GMT -5
Many of those passes had Tebow throwing it into double coverage or well off into the sidelines when there was a receiver there as well. He does that a lot too. There were a lot of passes that weren't thrown well or weren't smart decisions that somehow his receivers came down with, despite being in double coverage or having the ball under thrown. He throws his fair share of bad passes, you can't put everything on his receivers. Last season, Tebow's hallmark was playing erratic for 3 quarters and suddenly breaking out in the fourth quarter and throwing a few great passes. You don't get a passer rating 28th out of the 34 QBs that started if you rarely make bad decisions. Tebow was also thrown out into a team that hadn't made proper adjustments for him. He was never intended to be the starter and John Fox was never truly confident in his abilities. He walked into a team without his mechanics fully developed and without proper tutelage under a veteran quarterback, and for a guy with his style, that kind of thing was very important. A froggy coaching staff can utterly hamper a QB with considerable skill. Look at what the Ravens' mismanagement of their Offensive coaches has done to undermine Flacco this season. None of that matters if your QB can't consistently hit a 7 yard slant or if his style just doesn't win consistently in the NFL. Tebow didn't have near league bottom QB ratings and completion percentage because he was a great decision maker, he had them because you never knew what type of pass he was going to throw. For every great throw, there were two or three awful ones. Sometimes they were just damn lucky and the receiver could adjust or the ball bounced right. Sometimes they sailed to the bench because he wasn't anywhere near his receiver. Tebow is not a consistent thrower, and you can't blame the coaches for that, he made bad decisions in who to throw to and he made good decisions and threw poorly. And no, he didn't sit under a veteran, but that's what happens to first round draft picks. Tebow was notable because he didn't have to start right away and had time to get ready, which is more than you can say for the most first round QB's. Usually, when a team drafts a QB that high, they expect them to play Week 1, Tebow didn't. In fact, I'd argue that Fox did the best he could to help Tebow with what they had in place. They're not going to completely and totally change their personnel for him, especially not during the season, but their game plan compensated for his deficiencies as best as it could. Being Denver, they always focused on the running game, but it helped here because short yardage is Tebow's weak point. That also puts pressure on opposing defenses and tires them out. Late game, when they're tired, throwing it deep was more viable because tired defenses can make are less likely to capitalize if a throw is off. As far as mechanics go, there's a certain point where it's just muscle memory. At that point, it's going to be hard as hell to change it, because you've been doing it for so long. By the time you get to the NFL, you're not learning basic mechanics in practice and he already hired people to try to improve his mechanics before the draft, with little effect. If Tebow throws a football like it's a javelin, he's going to throw it like it's a javelin.
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