W?Y
Hank Scorpio
Old FAN, no tricks.
Posts: 5,532
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Post by W?Y on Dec 30, 2012 22:47:06 GMT -5
Garfield in the "Garfield's Royal Rescue" series. What is the blasphemy?
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AFN: Judge Shred
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wanted to change his doohicky.
Member of The Bluetista Buyers Club
Posts: 18,221
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Post by AFN: Judge Shred on Dec 30, 2012 23:35:50 GMT -5
Layla Miller and (to a lesser extent) Monet in X-Factor I cannot see how either of them fit the trope at all.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 30, 2012 23:39:02 GMT -5
I think people are confusing "polarizing character" with "mary sue".
as annoying as Kitty can be in the wrong hands, for example, she isn't really a mary sue. Bella Swan is a mary sue.
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Thaal Sinestro
Hank Scorpio
In Brightest Night, In Blackest Day. Etc.
Posts: 5,012
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Post by Thaal Sinestro on Dec 30, 2012 23:39:23 GMT -5
The Sentry..... well to me anyway. *language* Just Joking, I just couldn't resist. f*** you guys man, I loved Dark Avengers/Siege. I know something's wrong with me but I just don't care.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 30, 2012 23:48:49 GMT -5
Dark Avengers started off fine. problem was Bendis lost interest in it almost immediately and Siege ended up happening with one of the most absurd and stupid buildups I've ever seen.
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kolani
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 516
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Post by kolani on Dec 31, 2012 1:08:36 GMT -5
Batman doesn't count, he's the star of the title, not a secondary character introduced to represent the author and be overpowered. Wait, main characters can't be Mary Sues? They have to be a self-insert by the author to be a Mary Sue, none of the recent writers have created Batman, therefore, Batman cannot be a Mary Sue.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Dec 31, 2012 1:13:43 GMT -5
Wait, main characters can't be Mary Sues? They have to be a self-insert by the author to be a Mary Sue, none of the recent writers have created Batman, therefore, Batman cannot be a Mary Sue. That's not the definition of a Mary Sue, just where it came from. It's common meaning is that it's a label given to any character who is completely perfect in every way, they are the smartest, prettiest/handsomest, strongest, and flawless character in the world. They always solve everything and never have any true conflicts that challenge them and make every other character look either foolish or pointless. THAT is a Mary Sue. Plus, even if we go by your definition Batman can still be considered a Mary Sure depending on the writer, because said writer can make Batman into their own self-insert character while still portraying him as batman.
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Post by BorneAgain on Dec 31, 2012 1:18:50 GMT -5
Also not all self inserts are Mary Sues either. Kurt Vonnegut literally put himself in his own stories, but often for comedic purposes where he'd either do nothing or looking unflattering.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 31, 2012 2:37:11 GMT -5
They have to be a self-insert by the author to be a Mary Sue, none of the recent writers have created Batman, therefore, Batman cannot be a Mary Sue. That's not the definition of a Mary Sue, just where it came from. It's common meaning is that it's a label given to any character who is completely perfect in every way, they are the smartest, prettiest/handsomest, strongest, and flawless character in the world. They always solve everything and never have any true conflicts that challenge them and make every other character look either foolish or pointless. THAT is a Mary Sue. Plus, even if we go by your definition Batman can still be considered a Mary Sure depending on the writer, because said writer can make Batman into their own self-insert character while still portraying him as batman. By your own definition, Batman can never be a Mary Sue. He's one of the most psychologically damaged comic characters in existence. I also don't know of any incarnation of Batman that made the character into the author's wish fulfilling icon of perfection. And even then it wouldn't be a Mary Sue because he's an established character and not a fanfic-esque creation of the author's. Really, I get the feeling that people in this thread have just been using "Mary Sue" as code for "character I don't like who happens to be very competent or has a unique power." Now they would be guilty of other cliches, but that isn't Mary Sue-dom.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 31, 2012 10:38:16 GMT -5
eh, a Mary Sue can still have flaws. it's all about how it's portrayed. e.g. Batman has psychological issues, yeah, but in the wrong hands it just becomes an informed flaw that never really affects him and he still gets written to beat everyone ever and be the best hero for every situation even when it makes no sense. Batman has been a mary sue in the past, cases in point being the godawful JLA: Act of God and every time Frank Miller wrote him after the Dark Knight Returns and Year One.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,287
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Post by Push R Truth on Dec 31, 2012 11:06:46 GMT -5
Does Conan the Barbarian count?
I've read quite a few books and it seems like he always knows just the right people, overcomes all the odds or always just stumbles into the right answer to save the day at the end. His shortcomings always end up being positive rather than negative by the end of the story.
I love Conan, but it's kinda ridiculous from time to time
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Post by Cela on Dec 31, 2012 11:14:24 GMT -5
That's not the definition of a Mary Sue, just where it came from. It's common meaning is that it's a label given to any character who is completely perfect in every way, they are the smartest, prettiest/handsomest, strongest, and flawless character in the world. They always solve everything and never have any true conflicts that challenge them and make every other character look either foolish or pointless. THAT is a Mary Sue. Plus, even if we go by your definition Batman can still be considered a Mary Sure depending on the writer, because said writer can make Batman into their own self-insert character while still portraying him as batman. By your own definition, Batman can never be a Mary Sue. He's one of the most psychologically damaged comic characters in existence. I also don't know of any incarnation of Batman that made the character into the author's wish fulfilling icon of perfection. And even then it wouldn't be a Mary Sue because he's an established character and not a fanfic-esque creation of the author's. Really, I get the feeling that people in this thread have just been using "Mary Sue" as code for "character I don't like who happens to be very competent or has a unique power." Now they would be guilty of other cliches, but that isn't Mary Sue-dom. A weakness that gets turned into your greatest strength is not a flaw. Sure, he's mentally damaged, but it gives him 30 times more drive than the next hero. That doesn't work. It's basically Daredevil's blindness. Once radar comes into play, it's not a weakness.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Dec 31, 2012 11:25:01 GMT -5
Superman's a Mary Sue then. Siegel and Shuster used him to state their views during the Depression and how they'd solve real world problems. Then when World War II started and Hitler suggested Superman was a jew, they had him beat him up.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 31, 2012 11:38:52 GMT -5
Uh...guys, I really wasn't looking for the specific defintion of what a Mary Sue was, because it's one of the vaguest terms in all of writing. I was only trying to find characters accused of being Mary Sues that people liked regardless.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 31, 2012 12:19:10 GMT -5
Uh...guys, I really wasn't looking for the specific defintion of what a Mary Sue was, because it's one of the vaguest terms in all of writing. I was only trying to find characters accused of being Mary Sues that people liked regardless. I think every character has been accused of being a Mary Sue at least once. I really try to avoid using the term not only because of its vagueness, but people just get it wrong even with that vagueness. It's used way too much as code for "character I don't like." I wish it just stuck to the original definition of blatant wish fulfillment self-insert character by a fanfic author.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 31, 2012 12:28:28 GMT -5
I think it's kinda hard to look for a "mary sue" that people like because by definition a mary sue is supposed to be someone that gets a lot of hate.
I think the term you're looking for is "The Ace" [/TvTropes], a character who wins all the time and and yet is also totally awesome (E.G. Ichigo Kurosaki, Goku, Superman, John Cena when he's booked properly)
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Post by Michael Coello on Dec 31, 2012 12:38:03 GMT -5
Does Flasheart count?
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,086
Member is Online
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 31, 2012 12:53:35 GMT -5
I actually think the TVTropes term (if we have to use those) that most people are looking for is "Creator's Pet", as in even if they're not a self-insert, they're the one the writers shill the hardest.
And going on that note, the most obvious answer is Tommy Oliver.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Dec 31, 2012 16:50:07 GMT -5
I've thought and thought and thought and found the perfect example of a likable yet thoroughly shameless expression of egotism: A description for everyone who doesn't know about Billy: "For those of you who haven't experienced the amazement that is Billy Jack, here's a brief description. The narrow minded views of a small Arizona town come crashing down on the local Native American population, a near by hippie school for runaways and any wild horses that can be rounded up for sale to the local dog food plant. The only thing standing in the way of the seedier elements in the town is the school's protector, Billy Jack, a bitter Vietnam veteran who's Green Beret training helps to keep the locals in check. Hung on what is essentially the plot to a dozen kung-fu movies transported bodily into trailer park settings is scatter-shot pieces of social consciousness that get muddled by all the kick-boxing, a preoccupation with improvisational theater, attempts to tie Indian religion in with 1960's youth culture and sing alongs. It's an amazing film. Billy Jack, as played by Tom Laughlin, is a beloved figure who's adored by children, becomes some sort of Native American spiritual leader [in spite of the fact that he's really white looking] in a plot line that goes nowhere, and finally becomes a martyr who stands up to the Man. Written, produced, directed, distributed by and starring Tom Laughlin and his wife Delores Taylor, Billy Jack is a jaw dropping ode to one man's own unique vision and sense of self-importance."
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 17:58:50 GMT -5
Madison Jeffries from Alpha Flight.
I love matter manipulator type characters. And Jeffries' powers were awesome once he became the new Box.
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