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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Feb 1, 2013 17:22:54 GMT -5
I'll leave it up to everyone else... am I completely unfounded and have a "poor reason" to suspect Yami for this series of events? Or do you see where I'm coming from, and (right or wrong) I have a right to be suspicious? Im overthinking probably.. But if i answer that would be seen as scummy because i would have fallen in your information trap. However, lack of answering would be scummy because id be sitting back and letting town argue amongst themselves. Can't win. Not sure I understand. I've not called him mafia yet. I've not voted for him. All I've done is cast some suspicion his way due to an odd series and (in my eyes) waffling standpoint on being sure not to lynch a townie. And I get told its a "poor reason". I explain why I have my suspicion from day 1, and a few posts that could be seen as "covering his tracks" and he makes it out like i'm being absurd. Am I reaching too far to make it fit? Or could I on to something? I've overthought MANY cases in these games. But i've been dead on with a few as well.
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Post by Orange on Feb 1, 2013 17:33:28 GMT -5
Alright, I just read one of the links that you posted, SnS - and I do have a question to pose to Yami.
Yami, after RKTaker was revealed to be the Doctor - I get why you said it sucked, but why were you glad it happened? That's the part I'm having trouble with. It did suck, but what would possess you to be happy that we lost arguably our biggest player/character?
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
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Post by Yami Daimao on Feb 1, 2013 18:22:19 GMT -5
So please, don't act like you were 100% sure RKTaker was town and were defending him yourself. There were all scenarios I had already took into consideration even before your post. Correct, but I posted that for consideration. You blew it off and voted him anyway. Yes, because I already considered it myself, and if you look back to my FOS, you can see I was already sure of voting for him, but gave him some extra time. Thought of a possibility he could be town, but I had this gut feeling not to risk it. These were to show that you were against lynching a town. Something that you later turned from. I never said I was against it completely, just that it's not a good idea unless necessary, especially for Day 1. I'll even quote myself, and bold the points: Once again, RKTaker was not a blind vote. The moment he claimed to be mafia, everything changed. This WAS the post where you brought it up before me. I was actually lending support of the claim, right before you changed your mind. You're right. I changed my mind back to my original thought, because at the end, my gut was telling me he could be scum. Your post wasn't very convincing anyways, seeing as how I had already thought of it. You jumped the gun. Trigger happy. He had 24 hours to come back to the game, get replaced, etc. But you decided that the moment someone supports the "he's actually town" to place your vote... putting him one vote away from the lynch. About 10 minutes after my FOS, he confirmed he wanted to flat out quit (even emphasizing 'QUIT' with caps, to get his point across), and between my FOS and my vote, was 16 hours. I gave him 16 hours to see if he changed his mind. It more than likely looked like he was going through with his choice, I was curious if he was bluffing about being mafia, followed my instinct, it was as close to a lead as we had, and I wanted answers, so I voted. "We lost the town doctor, and that sucks, but it could have been worse." Pretty much a downplay of losing the doctor. Yes, it could have been worse...we could have lost another townie, or another townie with a power role. That's not downplaying, that's praising our luck that we didn't lose another while still acknowledging the initial loss. I honestly don't see your point in this. You excuse the entire group from any responsibility for it. Including yourself. What? I just finished saying I didn't excuse the entire group. I said MOST (which means not ALL) of the group are likely townies who just wanted answers like I did. I didn't flat out say "There's likely one scum who voted", but I thought I made that point when I mentioned that most of the group were likely townies. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm "hounding you" caues you said that me being suspicious of you was "poor reasoning" when I clearly have a solid case for my suspicion. It wasn't that you were suspicious of me in general, if you're suspicious of me, by all means present your case so that I can give my defense. You're case was not solid though. All you had was that I voted for you after you made your post...even though I already made a similar one prior. It wasn't ground-breaking. It wasn't convincing. It didn't help my decision any more than my own theory did. Your post did not make me think, because I had already thought about it, and I went with my gut. My gut turned out to be wrong, and I feel bad that it happened, but it was Day 1, and what's done is done. You seem to put the weight of your entire argument on your one post. I've gone on and explained everything I possibly can to defend myself. What more do you want? From a person who I've seen bring up fantastic points, it feels like your reaching for something that isn't there and are going through ridiculous lengths to prove it. I don't get it.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Feb 1, 2013 18:31:49 GMT -5
@sns: I think you're great at investigating, but this back and forth is honestly making me feel more confident about moving Yami towards the "leaning town" category. But again, without your investigation, I doubt I could've done that. So good work. @yami: Now that's how you defend yourself without needing a role claim or identity claim. Well said stuff, and a good job explaining your thought process throughout the posts.
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TOO SWEET
Grimlock
Not a doctor, nor do I play one on tv.
Posts: 13,109
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Post by TOO SWEET on Feb 1, 2013 18:34:06 GMT -5
EBWOP:
For the SNS section I feel like I should add more.
@sns: You deeply probed into his previous posts and by doing that gave us much more of a glimpse of how Yami's playing. You shoved him into the spotlight, which was a great job.
But while most burn in the light, some shine. And Yami kept his composure and has given reasonable responses (in my eyes) to each question you've asked so far.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Feb 1, 2013 18:38:30 GMT -5
You definitely have the right to be at least a little suspicious, SNS. Some Mafia members change their opinion on a drop of a dime, and in just ONE PHASE, his opinions changed mighty fast. He was for preventing the lynching of townies. He thinks RKTaker is town, so he votes for him. MAYBE you can defend that one because RKTaker wanted out, but it still is a little fishy. Especially after he says that he's glad that happened. Yeah, a townie that's glad to see the Town Doctor and FREAKING BATMAN lynched. And also, he doesn't think we should lynch townies for clues. After the lynch, he's HAPPY to do so, even if it means lynching a townie.Somebody cue the Botchamainia "huh?" Alright, I just read one of the links that you posted, SnS - and I do have a question to pose to Yami. Yami, after RKTaker was revealed to be the Doctor - I get why you said it sucked, but why were you glad it happened? That's the part I'm having trouble with. It did suck, but what would possess you to be happy that we lost arguably our biggest player/character? ... Did you guys just skim through my post? All of your answers are in there. Lodi: I do not want to lynch townies with blind votes. RKTaker was not a blind vote. NO WHERE did I every say or hint that I voted for RKTaker because I thought he was town. I FOS because he was mafia (and he wanted out), thought there could be a chance he could be town, but my gut was telling me he was mafia, and I didn't want to run the risk. I, as well as others, turned out to be wrong, and we payed for it. For both Lodi and Orange: "Whatever happened, I'm glad it happened." Where did anyone get that I was happy we lynched the town doctor from that? I was referring to the Night Phase, and the fact that no kills occurred. If that mislead anyone, then I apologize. I'm a little tired of repeating myself.
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Post by Orange on Feb 1, 2013 18:43:33 GMT -5
I thank you for answering the question at hand, and all the others. Great responses.
FOS: SnS 3.0!!
I've been suspicious of you before, and Yami's very convincing in his answers. You seem to be pushing for him very hard, and I'm leaning towards you being Mafia at this point.
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Post by Orange on Feb 1, 2013 18:44:32 GMT -5
EBWOP:
FOS: SnS 3.0!!
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Feb 1, 2013 18:46:05 GMT -5
Also, if I'm coming across a little cold, or at least blunt, to any of you, I apologize. Like I said, I'm just a little tired of repeating myself. I've defend myself all I can in this, and to an accusation I feel doesn't hold a lot of merit, especially if it's his sole reason why I'm "Leaning Mafia" with him.
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Feb 1, 2013 18:46:08 GMT -5
@ yami.. it was not the one post.. but what led up to that post as well.. The following tho is where I think our issue stems from
This can be taken two ways. To me, this read that you were talking specifically about the lynch and the lynch alone. But I can now see what you are defending.. that you were referring to both the Lynch and night phase.
I'll let it rest. Tho only bumps you to the 50/50... not the leaning town as spartan stated.
Going to lay back and let someone else dig now tho. On mobile the rest of the weekend.
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No Longer a Produceman
Dennis Stamp
Will Make You an Offer You Can't Refuse
Evolving into Geckoman
Posts: 4,377
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Feb 1, 2013 18:55:47 GMT -5
First, let me answer Z Natural's question to me. I voted RKTaker because i thought he slipped up and outed himself and SnS as Mafia with his "you would know" comment, supported by the post that Spartan had made prior. Later, his overreaction to Jazzman voting him made me think of how he acted when we were Mafia together in a previous game so i left my vote on him.
As for the SnS/Yami discussion, I feel that SnS was reaching a bit, however I think he was doing it to get a reaction from Yami to see if he'd reveal anything that suggests he's scum. At this point, i'm inclined to believe SnS and Yami are likely town.
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Yami Daimao
Patti Mayonnaise
Really, really wants to zigazig ah!
Posts: 31,784
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Post by Yami Daimao on Feb 1, 2013 19:02:56 GMT -5
@sns
That appears to be the case, as both Lodi and Orange picked up on that quote too. Honestly, it didn't look misleading to me at first, until you pointed it out. I should have been more clearer.
Only my 2nd game and I'm still learning, and I just learned I should be a more clearer with my posts when it comes to these games. So thanks for pointing it out.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,939
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Post by Dub H on Feb 1, 2013 19:15:09 GMT -5
I think someone that is very active with theories is bound to get suspicious upon him sooner rather tha later.There was a few things that strike me odd about SnS too.
One thing i am curious is about the Cageking reveal character,that it would be something a player of his experience won't do if he was mafia.Why exactly?
Also if i confuse the star war games and this one,warn me.. it can happen.
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Big Bad Brad
Wade Wilson
Big Bad Brad
Tournament Master
Posts: 27,407
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Post by Big Bad Brad on Feb 1, 2013 22:46:18 GMT -5
I said later today I would put together my thoughts
There are a few things
I voted RKTaker for a few reasons
1. He wanted people to vote him out and I did I know how he feels in that regard I wanted people to vote me out in Star Wars mafia but no one did luckily the mafia killed me off in that game. 2. He said he was mafia and I was wondering if that was true or not. 3. We needed a day 1 lynch regardless of how he flips we can study the way people voted to see where people stand.
It all started with Jazzman making a comment saying he doesn't like RKTaker or his play style now regardless if Jazzman meant that as a personal attack or not the fact of the matter is RKTaker took it that way and if someone said to me "Brad I don't like you or your play style" I wouldn't of asked people to vote for me I would got myself modded killed and never joined another game with the person who said they don't like me at least RKTaker handled it better than I would of and I think he forgave Jazzman for it anyway.
Just for Jazzman's interaction with Taker I'm leaning possible Mafia with him it maybe not strong but that's my gut feeling had he not said he didn't like RKTaker then Taker might not of gave up like he did and we might not of lost our doctor.
The whole SnS VS Yami debate I don't know I have a feeling one of those two are mafia I can't put my finger on which one.
I just really don't have a good read on that many people the only person I know for sure is town is myself everybody else nothing 100%.
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Jonathan Michaels
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Archduke of Levity
Here since TNA was still kinda okay
Posts: 18,236
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Feb 1, 2013 23:32:16 GMT -5
Has Brawler responded to my FOS yet?
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Post by The Man They Call Asher on Feb 1, 2013 23:43:16 GMT -5
@sns:
What're your thoughts on the events of the night-phase and the failed kill on me? Coincidence? Elaborate frame-up? Of course I'm still pretty sure you and your Mafia cohorts were trying to silence me, but I'd love to hear your side of it.
And to whoever it was that said they were going to dig into me: Here's a shovel! And if you find the need to decapitate me with it, go ahead. But you'll be killing a townie in the process!
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Post by Triple H buried SnS on Feb 2, 2013 0:11:22 GMT -5
Asher... we had this discussion in the last thread already. But if you need a rehash... If mason wrote the writeup to match the night actions, your two scenarios are correct. But you have chosen the wrong one to believe. If mason did what he said he did and didn't base the writeups on the night action... we have no confirmation that you were even targetted last night with a kill. As far as your overall suspicions on me...I don't know what else to say to you. Your going off a hunch and not providing anything for me to comment on for a defense.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Feb 2, 2013 1:17:58 GMT -5
Im overthinking probably.. But if i answer that would be seen as scummy because i would have fallen in your information trap. However, lack of answering would be scummy because id be sitting back and letting town argue amongst themselves. Can't win. Not sure I understand. I've not called him mafia yet. I've not voted for him. All I've done is cast some suspicion his way due to an odd series and (in my eyes) waffling standpoint on being sure not to lynch a townie. And I get told its a "poor reason". I explain why I have my suspicion from day 1, and a few posts that could be seen as "covering his tracks" and he makes it out like i'm being absurd. Am I reaching too far to make it fit? Or could I on to something? I've overthought MANY cases in these games. But i've been dead on with a few as well. You are a good player, a really good player. And you got a lot of discussion going, which is always good. Information always comes to us from discussion (or noticing those that do not partake in a discussion). That is good. That helps town. However, I feel like whenever I do give my opinion, I get labeled as 'fanning the flames' so to speak, and I feel like all I am doing is theorizing by asking probable questions. I like to cover every angle, and like to see things from different perspectives before I move forward. Yet, I am made out to be scum or on the fence without really pushing forward an opinion. That's what I meant. If I didn't answer the way you wanted me to answer, I would again be accused of 'fanning the flames' or even of sitting on the fence. I don't understand, and don't mean to answer in those terms. I guess I don't think I am straddling the fence and playing safe when I theorize like that.
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Post by Brandon Walsh is Insane. on Feb 2, 2013 1:20:32 GMT -5
EBWOP
Something doesn't sit right with the SNS/Yami discussion with me btw. But the one thing that does stick out is still Asher. Not sure why Asher feels like they were the one targeted for the night kill. I don't see any evidence that points to that. Before I outright call Asher out on that, something tells me there is something behind his certainty that SNS is scum.
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Post by The Man They Call Asher on Feb 2, 2013 1:23:03 GMT -5
Sorry, must've missed it in the other thread. My bad. I see your point about the writeup and the way Mason writes them. While I'm still not 100% convinced, for now I'll drop my vote on you.
Unvote
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