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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 21, 2014 16:43:30 GMT -5
yeah that's the first time I've questioned a directing decision on this show. felt completely out of character for Jaime and totally pointless to boot. I bet it never even gets mentioned again.
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Apr 21, 2014 18:10:26 GMT -5
In an interview on Hitfix with Alex Graves, the director, he mentioned this scene and how it became consensual at the end. So next ep it looks like Cersei will only be talking how having sex near their lovechild's dead body was wrong. I'll just erase that scene from my head and just transfer what I thought would happen. While there is some internal stuff in the book, Cersei whispers out loud for Jaime to get going and that she likes it.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Apr 21, 2014 18:25:06 GMT -5
I understand that is what they were going for, but it didn't seem consensual at all to me. It's like they cut to the next scene way too early.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 18:56:05 GMT -5
I thought they were going to get back to Jamie and Cersei, cause you can't have a scene like that early in an episode and not show some aftermath later. It was a weird choice and one of the few missteps of the series so far.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Apr 21, 2014 19:10:35 GMT -5
They needed to make it clearer that Cersei was up for it really. The various comments from the director appears to indicate he just wanted a scene he knew would be talked about more than he wanted a scene that worked.
Ah well, anyone who is watching this show and sees rape as the final straw, even if next to a corpse, has let a shed load slide before now
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Apr 21, 2014 21:00:25 GMT -5
I must admit, the Jaime/Cersei scene was not what I was expecting at all. It's been a while since I read ASOS: Part II but I seem to remember that scene going a lot differently. Wasn't Cersei, although perturbed at the idea of doing it next to her dead son at first, completely into it after a few seconds? It was a hell of a lot more consensual, or at least that's how I remember it. Can anyone confirm/deny this for me?
That jarring scene aside (I'm not necessarily upset by it, it's GoT after all, but it took me by surprise) last night's episode was fantastically captivating. One of the best non-major episodes they've done - by that I mean there was nothing major happening - e.g. Ned's death, Red Wedding, Purple Wedding, Battle of Blackwater etc. - every scene felt important and most really hooked you in (Tyrion/Pod, Tywin/Tommen, Tywin/Viper).
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Post by pepsitwist on Apr 22, 2014 7:38:11 GMT -5
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Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Apr 22, 2014 8:03:56 GMT -5
So, I got a question about the series, how do knights work in the armies? So, like we take, say, the Lannisters who have their own force of the people around Casterly Rock, and their lords like House Carkehall and Leffords. And then they have knightly houses, like the Cleganes and Lorches sworn to the Lannisters, and I remember Gregor has like 500 riders under him. So, knights would be akin to officers and commanders, maybe? Basically how you think. Knights are just lesser lords, at least landed knights with keeps, land and are sworn to major Houes like Clegane is to Lannister. Since landed knights can call upon their own villages for soldiers, they are theirs command and then the nights follow the commands of a lord.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Apr 22, 2014 8:11:31 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a shame that people are thinking that, because it isn't out of character at all. One series of him being sorta nice seems to have led people to forget two series of him being an utter dick. Clearly an indictment of one of the failings of the TV show to show those inner thoughts of the characters.
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Post by pepsitwist on Apr 22, 2014 8:26:03 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a shame that people are thinking that, because it isn't out of character at all. One series of him being sorta nice seems to have led people to forget two series of him being an utter dick. Clearly an indictment of one of the failings of the TV show to show those inner thoughts of the characters. More in the sense of his devotion to Cersei. The only woman he's ever loved. But he goes on and rapes her. Just unpleasant on every level.
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Post by Some Guy on Apr 22, 2014 8:46:22 GMT -5
Yeah, it's a shame that people are thinking that, because it isn't out of character at all. One series of him being sorta nice seems to have led people to forget two series of him being an utter dick. Clearly an indictment of one of the failings of the TV show to show those inner thoughts of the characters. He's an asshole and a murderer, but he's not a rapist. He's defined that plenty.
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Apr 22, 2014 8:54:18 GMT -5
This is a show that showed mad princes killing and mentally torturing people, has shown physical and sexual torture, has invented sexposition and shows nudity on a weekly basis and yet this is what finally breaks people?
And with this scene, it isn't even really a rape. It's a 'rape' where Cersei actively engaged and was only saying she didnt want it because of where they were, not because she didnt actually want the sex. If she was that bothered, could she not have called for guards? Grabbed the big f*** off Sword Joff was holding? No, because she actually wanted it, just not right there. The books do a better job of telling that story because you can hear the thoughts rather than just the words, and that is all people are hearing here. Her saying no (yes, I know the consent thing makes it a rape, but it wasn't a rape in that there really wasnt much force and that defines rape for me), rather than noting she wasn't actually actively trying to stop him as you would imagine someone to be if it was an actual rape.
Granted, it was poorly directed and the directors comments make it clear he just wanted to be controversial rather than tell a story, but still, all this griping is just ridiculous.
For me, the non-rape at the end of Walking Dead was far far worse than this scene because in that show it was clear the victim didn't want it, that the attacked was an actual attacker and had no feelings at all, where as here.....controversy for the sake of controversy.
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Post by Hakumental on Apr 22, 2014 10:50:13 GMT -5
I'm seeing tons of comments that it derails Jaime's character, but frankly, Jaime's characterization in the show departed fully from the books' back in that cage in Season 2. However much Season 3 realigned it, show Jaime's a {Spoiler}kinslayer and that's an irreversible shift to his character. I wish people were this up in arms over what the show's done to Stannis. Holy crap.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 22, 2014 14:12:24 GMT -5
We've already had the mother of dragons fall in love with her rapist. This is only a tiny bit more f***ed up than that.
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543Y2J
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Post by 543Y2J on Apr 24, 2014 5:45:02 GMT -5
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Post by Danimal on Apr 24, 2014 8:29:09 GMT -5
Great Episode, practically every scene had me captivated. The best scene for me, was Tommen and Tywin's grandson/grandfather discussion about wisdom and being a good king. I got a kick out of Tywin ragging on Joffrey right in front of Cersei, zero f's were given. Now Tommen can be molded into the king Tywin wants, one that sadistic, arrogant punk Joffrey would never be.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Apr 24, 2014 9:29:33 GMT -5
And still, no one cares about Rickon.
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Post by Blindkarevik on Apr 24, 2014 15:54:40 GMT -5
I dunno, my wife and I were watching it... saw the scene and both looked at each other like, "That's what all the outrage is about?"
Granted, spoilers probably played it up to a level where we expected too much.... but this was way tamer than even the Gemma rape scene in the second season of Sons Of Anarchy. THAT was uncomfortable as all hell!
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Apr 24, 2014 17:33:29 GMT -5
Been a while but I remember Jaime and Cersei having consensual sex next to Joffrey's body in the book.
The show's scene? No. Completely unnecessary, unfitting, and it seems like they only did it to look shocking.
It's even more baffling for anyone who knows where both characters go from here on out after reading the books.
The actual content of the scene? Not that shocking. I've seen much worse on GOT itself.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Apr 27, 2014 20:26:54 GMT -5
Hmm.... {Spoiler}apparently, both Littlefinger and the mother of the Tyrells both confessed to others were in on Joffrey's poisoning
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