Bart Gunn

[Sephiroth]

I've actually wondered this for a while, and for some reason it just popped into my head again. We have already heard and posted plenty about the Brawl for All tournament and its ultimate results. But I still have always wondered why the WWF just erased Bart Gunn from tv for months. Where they upset at him for beating Steve Williams and derailing their plans? Or did they just legit have no idea what to do with him when he unexpectedly won? To me it would have been the time to give him a small mid-card run, perhaps competing for the hardcore and European belts. I could have seen feuds with Marc Mero or Steve Blackman for the whole martial arts/boxing connection. Instead he just vanished for several months and was brought back purely for the WM Brawl for All match with Butterbean and...well...yeah, we all know what happened there. Any chances he had were done after that. So what happened?

[molson5]

It is possible he was just training (poorly) for the Mania fight?

In any event though, it's not like they were hurting for talent in late 1998. I don't think they left any money on the table with Bart Gunn, they had plenty going on.

[Razor Gives It A 4/10]

I'm pretty sure he had heat from Jim Ross because Dr. Death didn't win. But I might be wrong.

[MolotovMocktail]

I think he left on his own to pursue an MMA career in Japan, then came back to do the Butterbean fight at Wrestlemania 15 before leaving for good.

[celticjobber]

By knocking out Williams, he derailed the WWF's big plan (and the main purpose for the tournament) of pushing Dr. Death and having him feud with Stone Cold Steve Austin.

So I'm guessing he had major heat afterwards.

[thegame415]

I never got why they just didnt debut Williams with a "knockout" gimmick.

Why would beating midcarders in a boxing tournament make him tough enough to face Austin?

[chazraps]

Mar 25, 2013 23:06:40 GMT -5 Razor Gives It A 4/10 said:

I'm pretty sure he had heat from Jim Ross because Dr. Death didn't win. But I might be wrong.

It has to be this.

You knock-out the guy that the head of talent relations had been trying to get into the company for two years, he's not going to want to see you soar.

[ludwigwittgenstein]

Bart Ginn is just one of those totally immemorable characters. He was destined to such fate. If he didn't piss off JR someone would have written it into the script.

Only way I remember him is because the first cassette tape I ever owned was Full Metal, and I skipped the Smoking Gunns (What does the extra N ontologically symbolize?) and Jeff Jarrett's thing constantly.

[YiHammer]

I still don't get how you can get mad at someone for winning a shoot fight.

Cornette said WWE even offered a cash bonus to the winner to entice the guys to fight their hardest

[jason1980s]

He should have definately gotten a big push after the tournament. By Wrestlemania he had to have been forgotten about it had been so long. It's almost like fans would say "oh yeah, he did win the brawl for all." It was almost like a football team winning a division championship and then having the superbowl the next year.
Rather than Butterbean, Dr. Death should have been brought in (as himself, not wearing the silly mask) challenging Bart to Wrestlemania. If he loses Bart is alright, if he wins fans can forget about the loss from last year and move on with Dr. Death's push.

[fuzzywarble, squat cobbler]

Mar 25, 2013 23:23:16 GMT -5 celticjobber said:

By knocking out Williams, he derailed the WWF's big plan (and the main purpose for the tournament) of pushing Dr. Death and having him feud with Stone Cold Steve Austin.

So I'm guessing he had major heat afterwards.

If this were the case, then why didn't they make Brawl for All a work? Stupid by the WWF.

[mauled]

His Butterbean match is still a beautiful thing to this day

www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-JFOYQu_jA

[Sephiroth]

They were overcrowded at the time as it was, so I imagine that is part of why he just got lost in the shuffle. But yeah, I have long suspected that there was a little deliberate burial because he derailed their plans for Steve Williams. I can't help but imagine that if someone else had won, like Bradshaw or Bob Holly, they probably would have gotten at least a short mid-card push out of it. Bart Gunn just never entered into their equation-he was the last guy anyone expected to win it. I've wondered if the Butterbean fight was a deliberate burial as well, but I'm not inclined to believe so. They probably figured because he had done so well in the Brawl for All that he would at least last a full round-but being tough as a wrestler is a lot different than being tough as a legit boxer.

[sdoyle7798]

Mar 26, 2013 2:02:22 GMT -5 @ludwigwittgenstein said:

Bart Ginn is just one of those totally immemorable characters. He was destined to such fate. If he didn't piss off JR someone would have written it into the script.

Only way I remember him is because the first cassette tape I ever owned was Full Metal, and I skipped the Smoking Gunns (What does the extra N ontologically symbolize?) and Jeff Jarrett's thing constantly.

Did he ever tag with Rice Flair?

[molson5]

Mar 26, 2013 2:33:03 GMT -5 YiHammer said:

I still don't get how you can get mad at someone for winning a shoot fight.

Cornette said WWE even offered a cash bonus to the winner to entice the guys to fight their hardest

Ya, I don't really buy that theory about getting punished for winning. If the the company really wanted to push Williams as a top guy then they would have just pushed him, they wouldn't have put him in shoot fights with guys younger than him. You didn't see any main eventers in that thing for a reason.

Maybe Jim Ross was delusional enough to think his friend would destroy everyone in that kind of environment but I doubt the WWE was. Williams was an excellent college wrestler 15 years earlier and he wrestled a stiff style in pro wrestling, but none of that adds up to destroying men years younger than him who also had competitive athletic backgrounds. When you look at Williams and Gunn side-by-side, why would think Gunn wouldn't probably win? Just because Gunn wasn't a big pro wrestling star in Japan? There's no correlation there.

I think it's more likely this was the WWE's way of appeasing and shutting up Ross. "Fine Jim, we'll put your guy in this tournament. If he wins and gets over, we'll push him. If he gets killed, then shut up"

[zeez]

Mar 25, 2013 23:12:05 GMT -5 MolotovMocktail said:

I think he left on his own to pursue an MMA career in Japan, then came back to do the Butterbean fight at Wrestlemania 15 before leaving for good.

If he did then he didn't have an actual fights. He's only competed in MMA twice and both happened in 2006.

[jason1980s]

A few things from wikipedia I find funny.
They have a picture of Bart Gunn with the description:
"Bart Gunn, the winner of the only Brawl For All tournament."
Makes it seem like Bart was such a loser that him winning made them do away with the idea of ever doing a tournament again.

"Furthermore, because the fighters were trained to work professional wrestling matches and not to fight, they risked both injury and the possibility that a defeat would hurt their marketability."
I don't think any, or at least a majority of those guys, had marketability. Godfather's the only one who went to do anything remotely of note.

"Quote from Dan Severn off of Sherdog radio says he and Ken Shamrock were not allowed to participate, but then Dan Severn was asked to participate. After defeating The Godfather he was told he was no longer allowed to continue."
I would think this had a lot to do with wanting to get Dr. Death to win it figuring no one had a chance against Severn or Shamrock. Too bad Severn didn't go on and win because I think it he would have been an interesting guy to push. He didn't have the charisma a number of guys had but maybe they needed a quiet, tough guy type.

[Lardlad]

Mar 25, 2013 23:23:16 GMT -5 celticjobber said:

By knocking out Williams, he derailed the WWF's big plan (and the main purpose for the tournament) of pushing Dr. Death and having him feud with Stone Cold Steve Austin.

So I'm guessing he had major heat afterwards.

If this is the case, and WWE didn't ask Bart Gunn to go easy on, or ultimately lose to Steve Williams, then it's their own damn fault for letting both guys go out there and have a real fight.

They still could have had Austin and Dr. Death feud. Sure losing Brawl for All hurt him a little bit, but I think people would still take him seriously enough to have a feud between the two to get over.

To take it out on Bart, stop booking him, and then releasing him seems petty. As someone else said, I have a feeling most of Bart Gunn's treatment (contract, not being booked on house shows, etc.) would fall into Jim Ross' hands.

[lovingway]

Mar 26, 2013 2:02:22 GMT -5 @ludwigwittgenstein said:

Only way I remember him is because the first cassette tape I ever owned was Full Metal, and I skipped the Smoking Gunns (What does the extra N ontologically symbolize?) and Jeff Jarrett's thing constantly.

Copyright reasons. The Smoking Gun is a common phrase