Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,552
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 29, 2013 6:40:20 GMT -5
Kofi once spilled paint over a Nascar, I don't know how that didn't elevate him to Austin level? He also showed a totally different side of himself and was getting over big for standing up to Orton. But hey, a sarcastic oversimplification works too
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2013 7:01:58 GMT -5
Kofi once spilled paint over a Nascar, I don't know how that didn't elevate him to Austin level? He also showed a totally different side of himself and was getting over big for standing up to Orton. But hey, a sarcastic oversimplification works too Sarcastic oversimplification is a really condescending and pretentious way to argue. It's also fallacious. "Hey you! I don't like your argument! Instead of attempting to prove why it's invalid I think I'll create a straw-man that has absolutely zero context and attack that instead! I'm so smart! Yay!" Kofi was getting over with fans. People were cheering for him and wanted him to go over Orton. Randy Orton, the same guy that a lot of fans have chronically had a lot of difficulty booing. But they never gave Kofi a real chance. He was never properly tested. It's not like he got a main event push and flopped, he got a very brief taste and was then taken out. I mean, this isn't even like a Zack Ryder scenario. Ryder didn't have a lot of time but he had more time than did Kofi. Kofi's promos in the Orton feud weren't lacking. People enjoyed them! And it was all thrown out the window...for what?
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Mar 29, 2013 7:24:24 GMT -5
He also showed a totally different side of himself and was getting over big for standing up to Orton. But hey, a sarcastic oversimplification works too Sarcastic oversimplification is a really condescending and pretentious way to argue. It's also fallacious. "Hey you! I don't like your argument! Instead of attempting to prove why it's invalid I think I'll create a straw-man that has absolutely zero context and attack that instead! I'm so smart! Yay!" Kofi was getting over with fans. People were cheering for him and wanted him to go over Orton. Randy Orton, the same guy that a lot of fans have chronically had a lot of difficulty booing. But they never gave Kofi a real chance. He was never properly tested. It's not like he got a main event push and flopped, he got a very brief taste and was then taken out. I mean, this isn't even like a Zack Ryder scenario. Ryder didn't have a lot of time but he had more time than did Kofi. Kofi's promos in the Orton feud weren't lacking. People enjoyed them! And it was all thrown out the window...for what? There's an old saying, dunno if it's exclusively wrestling or what, but it goes "if you can get over in Madison Square Garden, you can get over anywhere." Well, Kofi got over in MSG. Regardless of what his detractors say, he constantly is over. Although it is telling that whenever someone brings this up, they immediately shift the debate to a flub or two he made in some promos; and when you mention that everyone messes up, they respond with saccharine sarcasm, like the fact that you don't want him released yesterday means you think he's the next big thing. As if there's no middle ground: Give him a real push and don't pull the rug from underneath him so we can see how far he can get.
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kidglov3s
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants her Shot
Who is Tiger Maskooo?
Posts: 15,870
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Post by kidglov3s on Mar 29, 2013 7:31:06 GMT -5
Sarcastic oversimplification is a really condescending and pretentious way to argue. It's also fallacious. "Hey you! I don't like your argument! Instead of attempting to prove why it's invalid I think I'll create a straw-man that has absolutely zero context and attack that instead! I'm so smart! Yay!" Kofi was getting over with fans. People were cheering for him and wanted him to go over Orton. Randy Orton, the same guy that a lot of fans have chronically had a lot of difficulty booing. But they never gave Kofi a real chance. He was never properly tested. It's not like he got a main event push and flopped, he got a very brief taste and was then taken out. I mean, this isn't even like a Zack Ryder scenario. Ryder didn't have a lot of time but he had more time than did Kofi. Kofi's promos in the Orton feud weren't lacking. People enjoyed them! And it was all thrown out the window...for what? There's an old saying, dunno if it's exclusively wrestling or what, but it goes "if you can get over in Madison Square Garden, you can get over anywhere." Well, Kofi got over in MSG. Regardless of what his detractors say, he constantly is over. Although it is telling that whenever someone brings this up, they immediately shift the debate to a flub or two he made in some promos; and when you mention that everyone messes up, they respond with saccharine sarcasm, like the fact that you don't want him released yesterday means you think he's the next big thing. As if there's no middle ground: Give him a real push and don't pull the rug from underneath him so we can see how far he can get. Hey now I thought I wrote a pretty reasonable post there, though accept I haven't always in the past. I don't get why they didn't push Kofi on Raw last Fall the way they did on Main Event, or why they haven't really tried with him at all since Jan. 2010. Because like clearly the office is fans of him and he's Punk's Diet Colt. He's athletically gifted and kids love him.
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King Ghidorah
El Dandy
On Probation for Charges of two counts of Saxual Music.
How Absurd
Posts: 8,330
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Post by King Ghidorah on Mar 29, 2013 7:47:04 GMT -5
Him being black doesn't help, now those are real oddz to overcome.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,477
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Post by dpg on Mar 29, 2013 8:25:01 GMT -5
Although I don't watch WWE much anymore (unless its on sky sports and I'm tired from work or can't find the remote for the digibox) even I can see that WWE has has spent the last few years solid NOT giving its new guys chances to get themselves over properly. They get introduced, given a storyline, that gets dropped after a few months, then they coast on b-shows and getting jobbed on the a-shows to main even talent. Mid-card and lower card guys are seen as trash by most crowds because that's how they are booked, as scrubs who can't hang with the big guys.
A few weeks back a bunch of my mates came and we all drank and watched some old school (late 99) Raw's. Now, we basically watched it for nostalgia, but seeing as most of those guys either don't watch wrestling much, or in most cases at all, but they all said the same thing about modern WWE. They kept pointing out how guys back then had a chance to show character, they were given storylines and stuff to do, they had angles and plot. Now if your a WWE mid-carder the chances are even if you get an interview or spot on Raw you'll get mocked or beaten up by a main eventer and made to look pathetic.
Modern WWE is horribly booked and written for anyone outside of a select group that WWE concentrates on, everyone else is just in a holding pattern waiting for the next time the bookers give a crap about them and decide to push them (case in point, Jack Swagger). In-between they get little to no promo time, no angles, no stories, nothing. Then when the bookers decide to use them, they get confused when the fans don't react. After the angle is done, they get dropped again and ignored.
I hate it when people say 'well, if they were any good they'd get themselves over'. Now I'm going to use a TNA reference as I watch it mostly these days. Austin Aries was about to retire when TNA offered him a year contract. He came in, was given promo time and match time to get over, did, was given the x division title, got even more over then became world champ. In a year. He was given a a good push over a sustained period of time and that mixed with his ability made him a TNA main eventer. In WWE he'd be brought in, given some time, then get lost in the mix and ignored. There are of course exceptions to this rule, but it holds true for MANY guys.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,552
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Mar 29, 2013 9:11:36 GMT -5
Kofi was getting over with fans. People were cheering for him and wanted him to go over Orton. Randy Orton, the same guy that a lot of fans have chronically had a lot of difficulty booing. But they never gave Kofi a real chance. He was never properly tested. It's not like he got a main event push and flopped, he got a very brief taste and was then taken out. I mean, this isn't even like a Zack Ryder scenario. Ryder didn't have a lot of time but he had more time than did Kofi. Kofi's promos in the Orton feud weren't lacking. People enjoyed them! And it was all thrown out the window...for what? Exactly. Kofi didn't even need to win the initial feud with Orotn. Just be able to hang with him and *barely* lose. Eventually down the line, he gets his big win against him at a PPV and that would have been enough to launch him. There's an old saying, dunno if it's exclusively wrestling or what, but it goes "if you can get over in Madison Square Garden, you can get over anywhere." Well, Kofi got over in MSG. Regardless of what his detractors say, he constantly is over. Although it is telling that whenever someone brings this up, they immediately shift the debate to a flub or two he made in some promos; and when you mention that everyone messes up, they respond with saccharine sarcasm, like the fact that you don't want him released yesterday means you think he's the next big thing. As if there's no middle ground: Give him a real push and don't pull the rug from underneath him so we can see how far he can get. Also, all of this.
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Post by Smokey McTrees on Mar 29, 2013 12:51:23 GMT -5
I have a feeling this is a work, and I know people will think I'm nutty, but I think Punk is gonna get over and win. Not "legit" but by some nefarious means that will satisfy fans of both camps. "cause the UNdertaker is pretty much shot.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 29, 2013 13:54:45 GMT -5
I have a feeling this is a work, and I know people will think I'm nutty, but I think Punk is gonna get over and win. Not "legit" but by some nefarious means that will satisfy fans of both camps. "cause the UNdertaker is pretty much shot. Maybe. The more I think about it though, the more I think that they're going to use Undertaker to "kill" heel Punk. It's a failed experiment from a crowd response perspective, and they got what they wanted out of it which was Rock holding the title. With rumors of Punk being gone for a bit after WrestleMania, I really think he's going to disappear and then return as a babyface sometime this Summer.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Mar 29, 2013 14:02:31 GMT -5
I'm of two minds about this whole thing. First, I'm pretty sure a lot of the talk is an attempt to lower expectations and that the match itself will end up being a show-stealer.
On the other hand, I think time off for Punk probably isn't coming a moment too soon.
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Madagascar Fred
El Dandy
TAFKA roidzilla and SUFFERIN' SUCCOTASH SON!
Posts: 8,784
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Post by Madagascar Fred on Mar 29, 2013 14:55:53 GMT -5
yeah hopefully this match will be used to kill heel the failed heel Punk character of now, and give Punk some rest (2 months minimum, hopefully)
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Post by CATCH_US IS the Conversation on Mar 29, 2013 15:00:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Punk's heel character "failed". He's not a terrible heel, and he actuall makes a better heel than a face. It's just that WWE has this problem where they make their heels too awesome for their own good while giving very little to their faces.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 29, 2013 15:32:22 GMT -5
Wasn't that the original plan for him? A deaf mute? Why would you add deaf to it? It is nonsense after all. I believe the actual rumor was a deaf balloon salesman to feud with Eugene. Which just screams newz to screw with the smarks, or a joke that someone took as serious.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 30, 2013 1:46:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Punk's heel character "failed". He's not a terrible heel, and he actuall makes a better heel than a face. It's just that WWE has this problem where they make their heels too awesome for their own good while giving very little to their faces. When nine months later a large portion of the live audience still reacts to him as if he's a babyface, it's a failure.
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Post by baerrtt on Mar 30, 2013 9:40:33 GMT -5
Regarding the promotion not giving it's current generation the same chances the guys who made up the Attitude Era....when that happened starting in '97 the WWF were in dire financial peril as a result of WCW's competition and they had no CHOICE but to push new stars. Contrary to what some may say or think around here and other forums the company financially is in a good spot and however wrong or lazy we may feel that is that knowledge that they're in a secure place is reason enough for them to not aggressively push guys in the manner they did 16, 15 years ago.
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